HD DVD Combo's - What Went Wrong?

oblioman · 09-14-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

The tripple layer HD DVD's is much better then the combo discs they have out right now, but I have a few combo discs and I really love them. I watch the HD DVD version, and my dad can watch the DVD version.

Ummm,,,HD DVD does not have a triple layer disc.

El Despairado · 09-14-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

Ummm,,,HD DVD does not have a triple layer disc.

The correct way to put it would be:

Ummm, HD DVD has not released a triple layer disc yet.

We already know they are real and will be coming at some point. That is fact.

daleb · 09-15-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

The correct way to put it would be:

Ummm, HD DVD has not released a triple layer disc yet.

We already know they are real and will be coming at some point. That is fact.

But if it was a BD disk we would excuse any delay for it's 'superior technological advantage'.

MikeRox · 09-15-2007, 12:41 PM

I like the combo idea, I just don't like that they're flippers. I think some people have been making too big of a deal out of them just for the sake of putting HD DVD down.

Jimmy Smith · 09-15-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

I like the combo idea, I just don't like that they're flippers. I think some people have been making too big of a deal out of them just for the sake of putting HD DVD down.

Honestly no. If Blu-Ray were to release a combo disc I would be just as opposed. I remember their was talk of Blu-Ray combos before release yet none have materialized and I view this only as a good thing. Why not package VHS version with DVD copies? Cause its stupid. People who buy high definition discs want high definition discs.

gallandro · 09-15-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Honestly no. If Blu-Ray were to release a combo disc I would be just as opposed. I remember their was talk of Blu-Ray combos before release yet none have materialized and I view this only as a good thing. Why not package VHS version with DVD copies? Cause its stupid. People who buy high definition discs want high definition discs.

Jimmy just wanted to point out your sig grammar is off. It should read "50 is a bigger number than 30". "Than" is a conjunction used when making comparisons, "then" is an adjective that refers to time.

Yancy

Dare · 09-15-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Why not package VHS version with DVD copies?

This analogy doesn't work for me. DVDs and HD DVDs have an identical form factor, can occupy the same physical disc simultaneously, and both can play in the same player in the same tray. HD-DVDs are DVDs, just on steroids. As such, possibilities open that aren't available between DVD and VHS.

A closer analogy might be when they started putting digital audio tracks on laserdiscs, but they kept the analog tracks there for backwards compatibility, even though most people might never use them.

An even closer analogy might be broadcast transport streams. I don't know if you've ever captured an HD transport stream off the air, but there's a standard definition version of the picture embedded in the stream, just for people who might need it.

But then, what do you need an analogy for?

MikeRox · 09-15-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Honestly no. If Blu-Ray were to release a combo disc I would be just as opposed. I remember their was talk of Blu-Ray combos before release yet none have materialized and I view this only as a good thing. Why not package VHS version with DVD copies? Cause its stupid. People who buy high definition discs want high definition discs.

Thats a pointless analogy, VHS and DVD are completely incompatible, HD DVD and DVD are both 5" Optical discs.

Why is it completely useless just because it doesn't effect you personally? I'm so glad you have a Blu Ray drive absolutely everywhere you watch movies.

I love the idea of combos because I can still watch the films at my girlfriends uni room, and my parents can watch them downstairs.

mshulman · 09-15-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Thats a pointless analogy, VHS and DVD are completely incompatible, HD DVD and DVD are both 5" Optical discs.

Why is it completely useless just because it doesn't effect you personally? I'm so glad you have a Blu Ray drive absolutely everywhere you watch movies.

I love the idea of combos because I can still watch the films at my girlfriends uni room, and my parents can watch them downstairs.

Yeah, I think many people forget that we are still in the early phases of this.

If we are going to talk about pros/cons of a format, we have to consider the average consumer.

The guy that has DVD players in his car, vacation home, places they travel..etc. DVD is in so many places today, that it simple makes sense to include it if possible. Fortunately that is a possibility with HD DVD.

Here's what most people miss. We all want High Def media to grow quickly, right? We just can't all agree on what format. Well - What's the fastest way to get it to grow? To get people who can't use it yet to buy it or get people to buy it since the media is backwards compatible.

Combos/Twins offer the best chance at growing HD DVD media at a fast rate. This is one of my top reasons for supporting it. While everyone else can argue over which is "Better", I'd rather look at which can be more easily adopted by the rest of the consumer base.

**PFC5** · 09-15-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

Yeah, I think many people forget that we are still in the early phases of this.

If we are going to talk about pros/cons of a format, we have to consider the average consumer.

The guy that has DVD players in his car, vacation home, places they travel..etc. DVD is in so many places today, that it simple makes sense to include it if possible. Fortunately that is a possibility with HD DVD.

Here's what most people miss. We all want High Def media to grow quickly, right? We just can't all agree on what format. Well - What's the fastest way to get it to grow? To get people who can't use it yet to buy it or get people to buy it since the media is backwards compatible.

Combos/Twins offer the best chance at growing HD DVD media at a fast rate. This is one of my top reasons for supporting it. While everyone else can argue over which is "Better", I'd rather look at which can be more easily adopted by the rest of the consumer base.

I think a lot of HD DVD fans INITIALLY chose the format because of the lower prices and backward compatibility it offers that the other BD format does not offer. The faster you can get mass adoption the greater the chances that prices will come down for both hardware & movies due to economies of scale.

Now that a lot of the problems with BD are starting to come out, we have even more reason to want HD DVD to win and win soon before people move on from even trying HD movies. I believe we are going to see more issues coming to light over the next month or two, but this is just speculation on my part.

Jimmy Smith · 09-15-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

The guy that has DVD players in his car, vacation home, places they travel..etc. DVD is in so many places today, that it simple makes sense to include it if possible. Fortunately that is a possibility with HD DVD.

Here's what most people miss. We all want High Def media to grow quickly, right? We just can't all agree on what format. Well - What's the fastest way to get it to grow? To get people who can't use it yet to buy it or get people to buy it since the media is backwards compatible.

Combos/Twins offer the best chance at growing HD DVD media at a fast rate. This is one of my top reasons for supporting it. While everyone else can argue over which is "Better", I'd rather look at which can be more easily adopted by the rest of the consumer base.

If thats true then why don't combo HD-DVDs outsell HD-DVD only discs. Their is no evidence that combos sell higher in fact some suggest they sell worse. HD media is not going to sell by piggybacking on inferior tech. If it could it already would have. It needs to sell on its own merits. In fact HD-DVD combos have done nothing but help Blu-Ray with discs that are $4 cheaper and have cool disc art that doesn't require you to squint your eyes to see if you are playing the right side. HD-DVD only studio Paramount has never used the combo format and I believe over time Warner and Universal will slowly abandon combo discs.

Jimmy Smith · 09-15-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Why is it completely useless just because it doesn't effect you personally? I'm so glad you have a Blu Ray drive absolutely everywhere you watch movies.

I own well over a hundred standard definition discs that have no Blu-Ray version. If I don't have access to the main TV I can always play one those. Or better yet I can do my homework, read, or go looking for action.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with combos if we were given a choice. Most combo releases are combo only. Why not release a cheaper HD-DVD only version for people like me who don't want the inferior tech.

Lee Stewart · 09-15-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

If thats true then why don't combo HD-DVDs outsell HD-DVD only discs. Their is no evidence that combos sell higher in fact some suggest they sell worse. HD media is not going to sell by piggybacking on inferior tech. If it could it already would have. It needs to sell on its own merits. In fact HD-DVD combos have done nothing but help Blu-Ray with discs that are $4 cheaper and have cool disc art that doesn't require you to squint your eyes to see if you are playing the right side. HD-DVD only studio Paramount has never used the combo format and I believe over time Warner and Universal will slowly abandon combo discs.

Ah Jimmy - The new ST-TOS Box set is Combo's.

**bruceames** · 09-15-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Honestly no. If Blu-Ray were to release a combo disc I would be just as opposed. I remember their was talk of Blu-Ray combos before release yet none have materialized and I view this only as a good thing. Why not package VHS version with DVD copies? Cause its stupid. People who buy high definition discs want high definition discs.

VHS and DVD are completely different media. A combo has both formats on the same media, thus giving it backwards compatability for consumers who need/desire it. What could be wrong with that?

unotis · 09-15-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

I agree with the points in the article. HD-DVD would be much better off without the combo format and Blu-Ray was right to abandon the idea early on. If HD-DVD could ditch combos and release triple layer discs I will probably buy a player.

They didn't abandon the idea they failed to perfect it after two attempts.

Failing it is not the same as abandoning it or would you prefer to think the Nazi's decided to abandon their try at world domination and conquest instead of failed at it?

so would they!

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09-15-2007, 12:41 PM	#19
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,416	I like the combo idea, I just don't like that they're flippers. I think some people have been making too big of a deal out of them just for the sake of putting HD DVD down.