TL51 Should Work With ALL HD DVD Players!

Lee Stewart · 09-12-2007, 12:32 PM

The good news is that the 51GB discs should play in all HD DVD players currently on the market. We discussed this with James Armour from Toshiba's optical storage division at CeBIT this year, and were told that although the third layer would be harder to read, and generate more data errors, the player's error correction should be able to fix these problems without picture and sound problems.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9776981-1.html

Conference on Sept. 14th should confirm this

KEEBS1984 · 09-12-2007, 12:40 PM

One step closer to the one side DVD/HD DVD discs that will replace DVDs altogether.

Lee Stewart · 09-12-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984

One step closer to the one side DVD/HD DVD discs that will replace DVDs altogether.

No- that has already been proven to work with no issues. It was the 3rd layer of HD that was the concern.

The DL/TL Twin:

SOBAY310 · 09-12-2007, 12:53 PM

Just a quick newb HD-DVD question. Do most of the new releases offer a combo disc for both HD and Standard DVD?

Stew4HD · 09-12-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

No- that has already been proven to work with no issues. It was the 3rd layer of HD that was the concern.

The DL/TL Twin:

Wait a minute, I heard that TL51 was vapourware...

El Despairado · 09-12-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEEBS1984

One step closer to the one side DVD/HD DVD discs that will replace DVDs altogether.

I don't know how well this will go over, regarding the TL Twin. It would be interesting to see how consumers wodld respond, but I don't see this as such a big deal right now. It seems to me that all this means is that instead of HD DVD/SD DVD Combo flippers like we have now, we would just have a Combo with one side.

I mean, how will this change the way the product is marketed? They are still going to have to keep this in HD DVD packaging for now, and brand it as HD DVD, I think. The reason I say this is because this technology is going to cost more, which will translate to the consumer. Don't you think this would result in a more expensive title purchase for all consumers? Why would the price of the TL51 be any less than the prices of current HD DVD/SD DVD combos??? I don't think consumers will be too happy to not have a choice by having a technology they might not need or want, and having to pay an extra premium for it to boot. Those are Sony tactics!

However, if they kept TL51 prices at current SD DVD prices then it would be awesome, because I would only imagine this would drive down HD DVD titles prices to the same price as current SD DVD prices. Who knows if that would be the case?

I think it's way too early to get excited about the TL Twin to get excited, IMO. The TL51 just means we take away the Blu-ray storage advantage.

crazyal · 09-12-2007, 12:59 PM

Kind of interesting side info in there too. Like the 100GB BD disc, love to see Sony make that one happen. Yields are what with two layers and they think they can add two more? Kind of interesting if the CH-DVD would work in a HD DVD player.

Lee Stewart · 09-12-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

I don't know how well this will go over, regarding the TL Twin. It would be interesting to see how consumers wodld respond, but I don't see this as such a big deal right now. It seems to me that all this means is that instead of HD DVD/SD DVD Combo flippers like we have now, we would just have a Combo with one side.

I mean, how will this change the way the product is marketed? They are still going to have to keep this in HD DVD packaging for now, and brand it as HD DVD, I think. The reason I say this is because this technology is going to cost more, which will translate to the consumer. Don't you think this would result in a more expensive title purchase for all consumers? Why would the price of the TL51 be any less than the prices of current HD DVD/SD DVD combos??? I don't think consumers will be too happy to not have a choice by having a technology they might not need or want, and having to pay an extra premium for it to boot. Those are Sony tactics!

However, if they kept TL51 prices at current SD DVD prices then it would be awesome, because I would only imagine this would drive down HD DVD titles prices to the same price as current SD DVD prices. Who knows if that would be the case?

I think it's way too early to get excited about the TL Twin to get excited, IMO. The TL51 just means we take away the Blu-ray storage advantage.

You are not looking at this from a business standpoint. A TL Twin (30/5) will replace both the HD DVD AND the DVD release - One box - one SKU (and that SKU will read as an HD DVD) - slightly more than a DVD as far as pricing. Will hold a 130 minute movie for both SD and HD.

Idiot proof - looks just like a DVD with silk screen on top. Players in ANY optical disc player; DVD, HD DVD and of course BD. Player auto. starts with correct layer - SD or HD DVD.

Made on existing DVD/HD DVD lines - costs a nominal amount extra.

The TL Twin will be ready to use before the end of Q4 2007

Nikopol · 09-12-2007, 01:31 PM

if the TL Twin works, they just have to get it into their head, that selling it for maybe 5$ more than SD DVD will give them much more profit than trying to sell it for 2xSD DVD price.

El Despairado · 09-12-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You are not looking at this from a business standpoint. A TL Twin (30/5) will replace both the HD DVD AND the DVD release - One box - one SKU (and that SKU will read as an HD DVD) - slightly more than a DVD as far as pricing. Will hold a 130 minute movie for both SD and HD.

Idiot proof - looks just like a DVD with silk screen on top. Players in ANY optical disc player; DVD, HD DVD and of course BD. Player auto. starts with correct layer - SD or HD DVD.

Made on existing DVD/HD DVD lines - costs a nominal amount extra.

The TL Twin will be ready to use before the end of Q4 2007

No, I was looking at it that way Lee. I understand what you are saying. However, I don't know if it would only cost a nominal amount over current DVD prices? If that were the case, then why are current HD DVD/SD DVD combos $30 or more?

Plus, I think this just kind of creates a marketing problem. How do you get across to consumers that every DVD they buy now, has the ability to have an HD image IF YOU BUY AN HD DVD player? This message would have to go out to ALL consumers, and it would have to be guaranteed to be immediately digestible by ALL consumers. Otherwise people who haven't chosen a format might still buy a buy a Blu-ray player when they mistakenly think that all the HD DVD titles have vanished from the isle, and all they see is a Blu-ray section.

Plus, how would this separate us from that new Red Laser HD format? I think it will lead to confusion on that front.

mshulman · 09-12-2007, 01:33 PM

I think current HD DVD prices are priced where they are because they need to be in order for them to have any chance of turning a profit at the sales number they are selling at.

But take a DVD that may sell 10 million copies and charge $3 more per title and you now make an extra $30 million!

Lee Stewart · 09-12-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

No, I was looking at it that way Lee. I understand what you are saying. However, I don't know if it would only cost a nominal amount over current DVD prices? If that were the case, then why are current HD DVD/SD DVD combos $30 or more?

The Combo is aimed at the HD DVD owner. The TL Twin will be aimed at the DVD owner. BIG difference. Price only has to be $2.00 higher. They are selling DVD's in the millions for each title.

Quote:

Plus, I think this just kind of creates a marketing problem. How do you get across to consumers that every DVD they buy now, has the ability to have an HD image IF YOU BUY AN HD DVD player? This message would have to go out to ALL consumers, and it would have to be guaranteed to be immediately digestible by ALL consumers. Otherwise people who haven't chosen a format might still buy a buy a Blu-ray player when they mistakenly think that all the HD DVD titles have vanished from the isle, and all they see is a Blu-ray section.

30 second blurb right after the FBI warning - can't skip over it - tells the DVD owner that all he needs is an HDTV and an HD DVD player. He will be building his HD library for a couple of bucks more. Very simple to do.

Quote:

Plus, how would this separate us from that new Red Laser HD format? I think it will lead to confusion on that front.

There are going to be 20 titles on HD-VMD. NONE of them are going to be Hollywood Blockbusters. They have NO Hollywood studios lined up.

cougardew · 09-12-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

I think current HD DVD prices are priced where they are because they need to be in order for them to have any chance of turning a profit at the sales number they are selling at.

But take a DVD that may sell 10 million copies and charge $3 more per title and you now make an extra $30 million!

I agree the combos are more expensive because of the low volume. Everybody thinks it's OK to charge more for the TL Twin but I disagree. Charge the same as if it were a SD DVD and watch HD-DVD run away with this. Toshiba COULD eat the cost difference. I really think this could be the nail in BD's coffin.

El Despairado · 09-12-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougardew

I agree the combos are more expensive because of the low volume. Everybody thinks it's OK to charge more for the TL Twin but I disagree. Charge the same as if it were a SD DVD and watch HD-DVD run away with this. Toshiba COULD eat the cost difference. I really think this could be the nail in BD's coffin.

As long as the mass market realizes HD DVD never went anywhere in the process, I agree with this. I still am concerned that if HD DVD's disappear from every store, it might lead to people purchasing Blu-ray by default, thinking that is the only HD format.

Nikopol · 09-12-2007, 01:58 PM

I think a big

"Now also in HighDefinition"

sticker on these kind of twin "SD DVDs" or something like that should make it pretty clear, what ppl are holding in their hands. Plus marketing can do its magic as well.

09-12-2007, 12:32 PM	#1
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	TL51 Should Work With ALL HD DVD Players! The good news is that the 51GB discs should play in all HD DVD players currently on the market. We discussed this with James Armour from Toshiba's optical storage division at CeBIT this year, and were told that although the third layer would be harder to read, and generate more data errors, the player's error correction should be able to fix these problems without picture and sound problems. http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9776981-1.html Conference on Sept. 14th should confirm this Last edited by Lee Stewart; 09-12-2007 at 12:34 PM. Reason: fix title

09-12-2007, 01:33 PM	#11
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,572	I think current HD DVD prices are priced where they are because they need to be in order for them to have any chance of turning a profit at the sales number they are selling at. But take a DVD that may sell 10 million copies and charge $3 more per title and you now make an extra $30 million! __________________ Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 PS3 Sanyo PLV-Z3 Canon HF-10 Onkyo 805 "I eat green berets for breakfast and I'm very hungry!"

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09-12-2007, 12:40 PM	#2
KEEBS1984 Loves me some Blu-rays :) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fullerton, CA Posts: 2,261	One step closer to the one side DVD/HD DVD discs that will replace DVDs altogether.

09-12-2007, 12:53 PM	#4
SOBAY310 America's Team Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Age: 29 Posts: 5,603	Just a quick newb HD-DVD question. Do most of the new releases offer a combo disc for both HD and Standard DVD?

09-12-2007, 12:59 PM	#7
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	Kind of interesting side info in there too. Like the 100GB BD disc, love to see Sony make that one happen. Yields are what with two layers and they think they can add two more? Kind of interesting if the CH-DVD would work in a HD DVD player.

09-12-2007, 01:31 PM	#9
Nikopol Uwe Boll's my hero Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maelstrom Blu-rays: 14 Age: 4 Posts: 6,374	if the TL Twin works, they just have to get it into their head, that selling it for maybe 5$ more than SD DVD will give them much more profit than trying to sell it for 2xSD DVD price.

09-12-2007, 01:58 PM	#15
Nikopol Uwe Boll's my hero Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maelstrom Blu-rays: 14 Age: 4 Posts: 6,374	I think a big "Now also in HighDefinition" sticker on these kind of twin "SD DVDs" or something like that should make it pretty clear, what ppl are holding in their hands. Plus marketing can do its magic as well.