Mistakes you feel your format of choice has made in the War.

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 03:55 AM

The point of this topic is to come forth and discuss instances in the format war where you think your format of choice made a mistake along the way. Please, do not point out the mistakes of the format you "oppose". We have all done that ad infinitum. I think it would be more interesting to see people be honest about mistakes their own format has made along the way. To start your posts, state whether you are HD DVD, Blu-ray, or Neutral.

I am currently for HD DVD only. One of the biggest mistakes I feel they made was the introduction of 1080i only first gen players. These players came out just as 1080p mania was at it's height. I was one of those people that got caught up in the hype and bought a 1080p TV. With the news on the new HD formats, I figured the next logical step would be to get an HD format player. When I went shopping, the Blu-ray name was much more at the forefront of my mind than HD DVD was. So, I'll admit, I had a little Blu-ray bias from the beginning perhaps.

So when I went to the store and looked at players and saw that HD DVD was 1080i only, and I could get 1080p in Blu-ray, it seemed that Blu-ray was the way to go. Keep in mind that, like myself at that time, the average consumer doesn't really understand that your 1080p display will upconvert anyway. Also, the lower price of HD DVD came across to me as being reflecting of it's 1080i only capabilities. So in other words, the higher Blu-ray prices seemed justified, and that HD DVD was a second rate product.

In addition to that, there was all the buzz about all the extra storage BD has over HD DVD, which reinforced that idea. I don't think I was the only person who made their purchase on these concepts. Once people "got in bed" with Blu-ray, so to speak, most never turned back. I think there were few people that actually returned their first gen BD players even if they did become more educated after the fact. I think the perception in the mass market that HD DVD is an inferior product is something that still affects them to this day. I feel this was a huge mistake.

Nikopol · 09-11-2007, 04:32 AM

I own an HD DVD player, and even though i thought i was neutral by heart before i`ve bought it, i have started to root for HD DVD now.

One of the "mistakes" imo at this point in time for HD DVD (can only speak for the german market here) is, that in most stores for "normal" people (e.g. MediaMarkt, Saturn, Karstadt) you can only see Blu-ray as a HDM player. So you see a lot of potential customers, who are looking at HDTVs and all they see is a Blu-ray player connected to the HDTVs. Most of these stores are carrying software for both formats, but i can only see Blu-ray players getting displayed.

I think, HD DVD should be more present at the point of sales. The numbers of actual players sold might me very small for both formats right now, but i think seeing a next generation player with the name Blu-ray might 'brand' potential customers.

This is just a personal observation for my local area here around Frankfurt and the few stores i've visited over the past weeks.

MikeRox · 09-11-2007, 05:21 AM

Indeed, although HD DVD is being pushed strongly in the US. In Europe I think their marketing teams really need to get their acts together and buy displays at the front of the stores. Sony have been doing this in the major CE retailers for over a year. (I can pretty much guarantee you walk into a Currys or Comet, the first thing you'll see as you walk through the door is a Samsung 47" LCD HDTV with Blu Ray player hooked up playing either a looping trailer disc, or a high profile Blu Ray release. (It was a Chicken Little trailer disc last time I went to Comet).

I know for a fact this display is paid for, because I've worked in CE retail before, but it's the first thing you see as you walk into the store, and it's Blu Ray that gets said with your high definition movies. The same store then had Several HD DVD players hooked up to HDTVs in the actual TV section of the store, but the fact that Blu Ray is right at the front speaks volumes to customers about the format, even if the impression it's giving off isn't actually true.

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Indeed, although HD DVD is being pushed strongly in the US.

I don't know if I agree with that? To this day, when I go to Walmart or Best Buy there are 5 Blu-ray disc players on the shelf as opposed to the one HD DVD player to choose from. In my town, Best Buy is currently only carrying the A20. The same is the case for the local Walmart, but they don't even have the unit on the shelf!!! I agree, this is also a mistake, but I don't know if it is actually a distribution thing or not???

Super XP · 09-11-2007, 07:33 AM

I think Toshiba should have been more aggressive in advertising & explaining the HD DVD advantages over Blu-Ray. The size of disc is nothing more then PR crap, and Toshiba needs to explain this to people.

MikeRox · 09-11-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

I don't know if I agree with that? To this day, when I go to Walmart or Best Buy there are 5 Blu-ray disc players on the shelf as opposed to the one HD DVD player to choose from. In my town, Best Buy is currently only carrying the A20. The same is the case for the local Walmart, but they don't even have the unit on the shelf!!! I agree, this is also a mistake, but I don't know if it is actually a distribution thing or not???

You won't find any Hd movie players apart from the PlayStation 3 in the British equivalent to Wal Mart. It may seem sparse over there, but compared with here, it's the biggest marketing campaign ever

we have no TV adverts for HD DVD, no radio adverts, no billboards, no cinema trailers, no nothing really.

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

You won't find any Hd movie players apart from the PlayStation 3 in the British equivalent to Wal Mart. It may seem sparse over there, but compared with here, it's the biggest marketing campaign ever

we have no TV adverts for HD DVD, no radio adverts, no billboards, no cinema trailers, no nothing really.

I wasn't denying that was the case in Europe, I was disagreeing with you when you alluded that the opposite was the case for the US. HD DVD still is much less "in the face" of the consumer than Blu-ray is, imo, to this day! According to recent announcements, that is all supposed to change now with advertising, etc. But it's certianly still not the case right now.

The funny thing about your last statement to me is that a lot of HD DVD supporters had said at the outset that HD DVD will win internationally due to lower prices and no region coding. From your perspective, that must not be the case either.

DSNY FN · 09-11-2007, 08:31 AM

I think although the HD DVD group is starting to make enroads into the larger marketshare of a very small market their advertising and push for the format.

On a side note I just spoke with a Toshiba of Canada exec he called in with some banking questions and I got to talk to him regarding the HD DVD format. It looks like Canada maybe getting some great promo's for this holiday season regarding the 3rd gen player and possible bundles with Tosh TV's he didn't get into to many details as he wasn't able to discuss to much but he said there were some seriously big things on the horizon and not to distant future for the brand and the format. It is funny how working in the banking industry people feel they can open up to you with info about stuff they wouldn't normally talk to others about LOL.

MikeRox · 09-11-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

The funny thing about your last statement to me is that a lot of HD DVD supporters had said at the outset that HD DVD will win internationally due to lower prices and no region coding. From your perspective, that must not be the case either.

Indeed not, Blu Ray is supposedly responsible for as much as 80% of UK disc sales atm. That is more a reflection of how tiny the market over here is for HD in general at the moment (the PS3 must represent over 95% of all HD movie players across both formats) rather than how much Blu Ray is "dominating" as it is being put across by so many people though.

HD DVD does seem to be starting to make inroads into becoming a more mainstream format over here though, the main problem here is that Blu Ray releases are about as healthy and plentiful as in the US, lots of films, up to date, etc. HD DVD on the otherhand we're lucky if theres 1 release a week (it really does go between 0, 1 and 2 very rarely ever getting abother that and there can be several weeks with no release at all) I do wonder if something is brewing for the 29th of October though, there are 8 titles slated for that day atm which is almost like a format relaunch.

With the exception of Hotel Babylon: Series 1 though which appears to be a UK exclusive release, they're all titles that have been available in the US for months. (Waterworld, Pitch Black, Planet Earth, etc.)

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 08:54 AM

Interesting MikeRox, I had no idea that the PS3 or Blu-ray was such an overwhelming success in the UK.

I am the moderator on an international music forum and I got into a heated debate with a fellow moderator from the UK regarding Blu-ray vs. HD DVD, in an off topic forum. The debate actually started within a thread topic regarding which new video game console to buy out of the 3, and it quickly became a PS3 pimpfest (due to my fellow moderator, lol). I thought it was odd that she was so pro PS3 to begin with because I read articles that suggested that PS3 sales there were as sluggish as in the rest of the world. She drew me into the debate when she was highly touting the PS3's Blu-ray capabilities. However, what really got the debate heated was the fact that she completely dismissed HD DVD as a "dead format" when I pointed out that the XBOX 360 had an HD DVD add on. Unfortunately for her, she didn't realize that this subject has become my second passion, lol. Now, reading your comments, I can understand more of her perspective. HD DVD probably does seem dead to her.

MikeRox · 09-11-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Despairado

Interesting MikeRox, I had no idea that the PS3 or Blu-ray was such an overwhelming success in the UK.

It's not lol. Thats just how pitiful HD sales are over here. PS3 is trailing the other consoles by a long way after a strong launch week, it's been in 3rd place by a considerable margin week in week out.

As for Blu Ray as a format, it holds 70-80% of a non existent market. Most Blu Ray sales are actually just add ins with PS3 consoles (you have to take em with 2 Blu Ray movies which in turn count as disc sales over here whether you want to or not as the shops bundle 2 films and 2 games with every console to try and shift them).

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

It's not lol. Thats just how pitiful HD sales are over here. PS3 is trailing the other consoles by a long way after a strong launch week, it's been in 3rd place by a considerable margin week in week out.

As for Blu Ray as a format, it holds 70-80% of a non existent market. Most Blu Ray sales are actually just add ins with PS3 consoles (you have to take em with 2 Blu Ray movies which in turn count as disc sales over here whether you want to or not as the shops bundle 2 films and 2 games with every console to try and shift them).

Oh, ok. Finally I see what you're saying!

Well, that means the war is still pretty open there then, which is good!!!

MikeRox · 09-11-2007, 09:13 AM

It's the same for the US really atm. All it takes is 1 major factor to swing it completely in 1 direction with as much as 98% of the market still being fought for. It's just both formats have even less penetration in other parts of the world.

This is why talk of "the war is over" always has, and always will have been utterly retarded during the whole of 2006/2007. The fact that so many people now consider Blu Ray in a "commanding lead" and "clearly the consumers choice" is foolish at best. This fact is compounded greatly when you consider we had near enough identical trends only in favour of HD DVD before the PS3 came out.

Back then the dafter HD DVD fans were harping "Blu Ray is dead, they should just give up now!". The case could very well be reversed once again after Q4 2007.

belmonte83 · 09-11-2007, 09:37 AM

i think HD DVD needs to make a STRONG marketing agenda for the Xbox 360 add-on (in conjunction with Microsoft) since for people with a 360, it is a cheap way to get HD DVD playback capabilities

right now at my Best Buy there is a promo where you can get the HD DVD drive w/ King Kong and Heroes season 1 for $249 canadian ($238 american or 117 pounds)

more of this with more advertisement will increase sales of the drives, therefore increase sales of the discs in the long run. as opposed to the PS3 where not everyone will use the blu ray player, everyone who buys this drive will use it for HD DVD or else they wouldnt have bought it

maybe this is a microsoft thing, but having a 360 with a built in HD DVD from the beginning would have changed the landscape of the war completely and some companies might not have gone blu ray exclusive to begin with

El Despairado · 09-11-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belmonte83

i think HD DVD needs to make a STRONG marketing agenda for the Xbox 360 add-on (in conjunction with Microsoft) since for people with a 360, it is a cheap way to get HD DVD playback capabilities

right now at my Best Buy there is a promo where you can get the HD DVD drive w/ King Kong and Heroes season 1 for $249 canadian ($238 american or 117 pounds)

more of this with more advertisement will increase sales of the drives, therefore increase sales of the discs in the long run. as opposed to the PS3 where not everyone will use the blu ray player, everyone who buys this drive will use it for HD DVD or else they wouldnt have bought it

maybe this is a microsoft thing, but having a 360 with a built in HD DVD from the beginning would have changed the landscape of the war completely and some companies might not have gone blu ray exclusive to begin with

I agree that not marketing the HD DVD add on was and continues to be a mistake. I only have one HDTV in my houshold, therefore only need one HD DVD player which is my XA2, but I do own an XBOX 360. Luckily I bought a 360 for my little brother for Christmas in 2005, so he'll be getting a new HD DVD add on drive from me for Christmas this year, just so I can get all the free movies, lol!!!!

09-11-2007, 03:55 AM	#1
El Despairado HD DVD: Still the best! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North Dakota Age: 32 Posts: 903	Mistakes you feel your format of choice has made in the War. The point of this topic is to come forth and discuss instances in the format war where you think your format of choice made a mistake along the way. Please, do not point out the mistakes of the format you "oppose". We have all done that ad infinitum. I think it would be more interesting to see people be honest about mistakes their own format has made along the way. To start your posts, state whether you are HD DVD, Blu-ray, or Neutral. I am currently for HD DVD only. One of the biggest mistakes I feel they made was the introduction of 1080i only first gen players. These players came out just as 1080p mania was at it's height. I was one of those people that got caught up in the hype and bought a 1080p TV. With the news on the new HD formats, I figured the next logical step would be to get an HD format player. When I went shopping, the Blu-ray name was much more at the forefront of my mind than HD DVD was. So, I'll admit, I had a little Blu-ray bias from the beginning perhaps. So when I went to the store and looked at players and saw that HD DVD was 1080i only, and I could get 1080p in Blu-ray, it seemed that Blu-ray was the way to go. Keep in mind that, like myself at that time, the average consumer doesn't really understand that your 1080p display will upconvert anyway. Also, the lower price of HD DVD came across to me as being reflecting of it's 1080i only capabilities. So in other words, the higher Blu-ray prices seemed justified, and that HD DVD was a second rate product. In addition to that, there was all the buzz about all the extra storage BD has over HD DVD, which reinforced that idea. I don't think I was the only person who made their purchase on these concepts. Once people "got in bed" with Blu-ray, so to speak, most never turned back. I think there were few people that actually returned their first gen BD players even if they did become more educated after the fact. I think the perception in the mass market that HD DVD is an inferior product is something that still affects them to this day. I feel this was a huge mistake. __________________ Consumers did not choose the winner of the format war, the movie studios did, and now consumers are stuck with the decision. Samsung HL-S6187W Yamaha RX-V2700 Toshiba HD-XA2 RF/LF-Polk Audio RTi8 Center-Polk Audio CSi3 SL/SR-Polk Audio RTi6 LFE-Polk Audio P505 300watt self amplified. Xbox 360 Administrator of Horns Up International hornsupinternational.freeforums.org

09-11-2007, 07:33 AM	#5
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	I think Toshiba should have been more aggressive in advertising & explaining the HD DVD advantages over Blu-Ray. The size of disc is nothing more then PR crap, and Toshiba needs to explain this to people. __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10

09-11-2007, 08:31 AM	#8
DSNY FN High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Ont Canada Age: 40 Posts: 2,273	I think although the HD DVD group is starting to make enroads into the larger marketshare of a very small market their advertising and push for the format. On a side note I just spoke with a Toshiba of Canada exec he called in with some banking questions and I got to talk to him regarding the HD DVD format. It looks like Canada maybe getting some great promo's for this holiday season regarding the 3rd gen player and possible bundles with Tosh TV's he didn't get into to many details as he wasn't able to discuss to much but he said there were some seriously big things on the horizon and not to distant future for the brand and the format. It is funny how working in the banking industry people feel they can open up to you with info about stuff they wouldn't normally talk to others about LOL. __________________ HD IS THE ONLY WAY Bedroom setup Viewsonic N2752w Xpressvue 6100 Toshiba HD A2 Harmony 520 Livingroom setup Samsung HL-S5687WX Toshiba HD-DVD XA2 Xpressvue HD PVR Denon 3801 PSB Full surround Harmony 880 Nintendo GC Nintendo Wii (this console rocks) Mario Kart Wii friend code 4768-8283-5991

09-11-2007, 08:54 AM	#10
El Despairado HD DVD: Still the best! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North Dakota Age: 32 Posts: 903	Interesting MikeRox, I had no idea that the PS3 or Blu-ray was such an overwhelming success in the UK. I am the moderator on an international music forum and I got into a heated debate with a fellow moderator from the UK regarding Blu-ray vs. HD DVD, in an off topic forum. The debate actually started within a thread topic regarding which new video game console to buy out of the 3, and it quickly became a PS3 pimpfest (due to my fellow moderator, lol). I thought it was odd that she was so pro PS3 to begin with because I read articles that suggested that PS3 sales there were as sluggish as in the rest of the world. She drew me into the debate when she was highly touting the PS3's Blu-ray capabilities. However, what really got the debate heated was the fact that she completely dismissed HD DVD as a "dead format" when I pointed out that the XBOX 360 had an HD DVD add on. Unfortunately for her, she didn't realize that this subject has become my second passion, lol. Now, reading your comments, I can understand more of her perspective. HD DVD probably does seem dead to her. __________________ Consumers did not choose the winner of the format war, the movie studios did, and now consumers are stuck with the decision. Samsung HL-S6187W Yamaha RX-V2700 Toshiba HD-XA2 RF/LF-Polk Audio RTi8 Center-Polk Audio CSi3 SL/SR-Polk Audio RTi6 LFE-Polk Audio P505 300watt self amplified. Xbox 360 Administrator of Horns Up International hornsupinternational.freeforums.org

09-11-2007, 09:37 AM	#14
belmonte83 HD DVD for movie fans Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 174	i think HD DVD needs to make a STRONG marketing agenda for the Xbox 360 add-on (in conjunction with Microsoft) since for people with a 360, it is a cheap way to get HD DVD playback capabilities right now at my Best Buy there is a promo where you can get the HD DVD drive w/ King Kong and Heroes season 1 for $249 canadian ($238 american or 117 pounds) more of this with more advertisement will increase sales of the drives, therefore increase sales of the discs in the long run. as opposed to the PS3 where not everyone will use the blu ray player, everyone who buys this drive will use it for HD DVD or else they wouldnt have bought it maybe this is a microsoft thing, but having a 360 with a built in HD DVD from the beginning would have changed the landscape of the war completely and some companies might not have gone blu ray exclusive to begin with __________________ XBOX 360 gamertag: belmonte 83 Xbox 360 Elite Xbox 360 HD DVD player RCA Scenium 50" DLP Pioneer HTP 1100 5.1 Surround Sound with Pioneer SX-315 receiver and DV-490V HDMI DVD player HD DVD Movies: 50 Recently Purchased:Bourne Identity, Bourne Supremacy, Bourne Ultimatum, Blade Runner, The Kingdom

09-11-2007, 04:32 AM	#2
Nikopol Uwe Boll's my hero Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maelstrom Blu-rays: 14 Age: 4 Posts: 6,374	I own an HD DVD player, and even though i thought i was neutral by heart before i`ve bought it, i have started to root for HD DVD now. One of the "mistakes" imo at this point in time for HD DVD (can only speak for the german market here) is, that in most stores for "normal" people (e.g. MediaMarkt, Saturn, Karstadt) you can only see Blu-ray as a HDM player. So you see a lot of potential customers, who are looking at HDTVs and all they see is a Blu-ray player connected to the HDTVs. Most of these stores are carrying software for both formats, but i can only see Blu-ray players getting displayed. I think, HD DVD should be more present at the point of sales. The numbers of actual players sold might me very small for both formats right now, but i think seeing a next generation player with the name Blu-ray might 'brand' potential customers. This is just a personal observation for my local area here around Frankfurt and the few stores i've visited over the past weeks.

09-11-2007, 05:21 AM	#3
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,416	Indeed, although HD DVD is being pushed strongly in the US. In Europe I think their marketing teams really need to get their acts together and buy displays at the front of the stores. Sony have been doing this in the major CE retailers for over a year. (I can pretty much guarantee you walk into a Currys or Comet, the first thing you'll see as you walk through the door is a Samsung 47" LCD HDTV with Blu Ray player hooked up playing either a looping trailer disc, or a high profile Blu Ray release. (It was a Chicken Little trailer disc last time I went to Comet). I know for a fact this display is paid for, because I've worked in CE retail before, but it's the first thing you see as you walk into the store, and it's Blu Ray that gets said with your high definition movies. The same store then had Several HD DVD players hooked up to HDTVs in the actual TV section of the store, but the fact that Blu Ray is right at the front speaks volumes to customers about the format, even if the impression it's giving off isn't actually true.

09-11-2007, 09:13 AM	#13
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,416	It's the same for the US really atm. All it takes is 1 major factor to swing it completely in 1 direction with as much as 98% of the market still being fought for. It's just both formats have even less penetration in other parts of the world. This is why talk of "the war is over" always has, and always will have been utterly retarded during the whole of 2006/2007. The fact that so many people now consider Blu Ray in a "commanding lead" and "clearly the consumers choice" is foolish at best. This fact is compounded greatly when you consider we had near enough identical trends only in favour of HD DVD before the PS3 came out. Back then the dafter HD DVD fans were harping "Blu Ray is dead, they should just give up now!". The case could very well be reversed once again after Q4 2007.

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