Dispelling rumors around Paramount/Dreamworks and Microsoft

loganhunter200 · 08-24-2007, 01:33 PM

Just found this at Home Theater Forum:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=261297

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone,

My name is Kevin Collins and I have worked for Microsoft for the last 14 years working on database technology (Jet and SQL Mobile). I have been involved in HD DVD for almost three years; from the HD DVD Video specification process in the DVD Forum to current promotion of HD DVD features. I met a lot of you with the HTF chat in January of this year and hope to do another chat when my schedule permits to have more ongoing discussions. For those that don’t know me, I am a home theater enthusiast. Starting in 1992 I had a Pioneer laser disc player, 1994 I had a Pioneer Elite 51” RPTV, in 1997 I had the Sony DVD player. In 1999 I moved to watching DVD’s on a HTPC on a Sony G70 on a 8ft wide Stewart Filmscreen Studio Tek 130 screen and currently view HD content on a Marantz 1080P DLP PJ with BOTH formats on a Stewart Filmscreen Gray Hawk RS screen. So, even though I work at Microsoft, I have been a home theater enthusiast well before I started on HD DVD at Microsoft.

At any rate, since I am constantly traveling for HD DVD I haven't had time to become active on this forum. I’m currently on vacation but something has come up that even my wife hasn’t been able to prevent me from responding to. It has to do with posts regarding why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD. Here is an example of what I am referring to:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp
“8/20/07 -- Well... the high-definition format war just got more confusing for consumers, and you can thank the hubris of the folks at Microsoft for it. Their HD-DVD format (because I'm sorry, can anyone really say it still belongs to Toshiba at this point?) badly needed a shot in the arm going into the holiday season, and just got it thanks to suitcases full of cash from the Microsoft camp”

I want to go on the record stating that Microsoft did not provide any financial incentives to Paramount/Dreamworks recent decision to support HD DVD. This type of “reporting” amazes me and I challenge anyone to provide proof around these statements. They are unfounded and inaccurate.

I’m not writing this to debate opinions on why one format will or will not prevail. I’m a writing this to provide some factual information on why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD to hopefully put to rest some of the incorrect information I see online.

Originally Microsoft supported BOTH formats, then two CES’s ago, Microsoft changed to only supporting HD DVD for the following three reasons:
1) Mandatory Managed copy. BD has since also supported this and we are all waiting on the “final agreement” to be completed from AACS.
2) Guaranteed hardware features on ALL HD DVD players. The mandatory features here being persistent storage, secondary video decoder and networking. Microsoft simply believes, as do the studios, including Disney, that interactivity is a reason for consumers to move from DVD. Please reference this document for reasons that the Warner Home Video and Disney put together in the DVD Forum: http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requi...0HD%20DVD%20Vi deo%20Application-July2005.pdf. Warner Home Video proves this out by releasing different features in 300 and Blood Diamond (networking – sharing scenes with friends and PIP) and Paramount did it with MI:3 last year with PIP only in the HD DVD version.
3) Cheaper, higher yield and greater availability of replication. A perfect case point for this is the European market where there are a multitude of HD DVD titles that are only available from the BD studios in the US. The reason for this? Cheaper replication costs and the ability to use local replicators to produce discs. BD50 discs are only produced at two plants in the world (Terre Haute, IN and Japan). Thanks to no region control in HD DVD we can all legally enjoy “Mr & Mrs Smith”, “The Prestige” and others from sites http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/hd-dvds-c-35.html and http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_st/203-...t=-releasedate.

For the record, Microsoft’s involvement in HD DVD rotates around supporting the format by:
1) Xbox 360 HD DVD drive
2) VC-1 support for BOTH formats
3) HDi support
4) Work in the DVD Forum from working groups up to the steering committee.

This type of support shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone as this is what Microsoft has historically done, support developers to use tools to provide the best experience for their customers.

While a lot of people disagree with data posted on Harry Knowles site (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...oap060107.html) Harry accurately reported why Paramount is supporting HD DVD moving forward when he said (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722):
“For those of us consuming these products - it's easy to simply believe decisions are made due to just advertising incentives, but when you speak to the technology guys inside these studios - you hear that HD DVD is cheaper, serves the technological needs of the High Definition format, that the programming languages are an extension of the established DVD format - so it is easier for them to work with. This decision is about more than an intial Toshiba advertising incentive - the decision was made at a tech level, an economic level and about a cost delivery level to the public. Paramount made this decision from the tech guys up.”

I hope this clears up the misinformation that has been reported regarding Microsoft’s involvement in the Paramount/Dreamworks decision or in the “rumored” involvement with Warner. For the record, I respect Bill in that we are both enthusiast from the days of laser discs and we are both interested in seeing movies in HD the way that they were originally on film. In the meantime, I look forward to continue showing everyone, with shipping titles, why Microsoft believes in HD DVD.

Best,

- kevin

Lee Stewart · 08-24-2007, 01:37 PM

Hope Jimmy reads this.

GLOW · 08-24-2007, 01:46 PM

Listening to this guy is the equivalent of listening to Andy Parsons. They have no reason to tell us the real truth behind anything.

Jimmy Smith · 08-24-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Hope Jimmy reads this.

I read it I just don't believe it. Microsoft cash payment has been confirmed by multiple sources. Plus its the only way Paramounts move makes any sense. The only other option would be that Paramount hates money.

anythingwt · 08-24-2007, 02:56 PM

Will Microsoft ever release a stand alone HD DVD player? I just don't understand why they would invest so much into the format when they only reap the benefits from 360 owners who want to watch HD movies. You mention they play a bigger part than toshiba at this point, if so, how and why?

Jimmy Smith · 08-24-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

Will Microsoft ever release a stand alone HD DVD player? I just don't understand why they would invest so much into the format when they only reap the benefits from 360 owners who want to watch HD movies. You mention they play a bigger part than toshiba at this point, if so, how and why?

Thats easy. Microsoft believe On Demand movie downloading in high definition is the future not pre-packaged HD discs. They know rightfully so that neither HD disc format stands a chance of winning anything other then niche format status as long as the other exists. So they pump their money into HD-DVD to prevent it from dying to keep HD disc from becoming mainstream. Having two formats creates consumer confusion and lowers the value of investments enough to prevent either from taking off.

Stew4HD · 08-24-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

I read it I just don't believe it. Microsoft cash payment has been confirmed by multiple sources. Plus its the only way Paramounts move makes any sense. The only other option would be that Paramount hates money.

The payout has been RUMORED by many sources, not confirmed. No BD fan will believe because they do not want to. It is easier to believe that Parmaount/DW switched because of a bribe by big-bad M$ than to think they could have done it because Tosh offered nice incentives and it made more sense to them from a business standpoint. There is not always a huge conspiracy behind every move. Whyt not believe that Tosh paid the money? They have a huge pile of it too.

iserum · 08-24-2007, 03:28 PM

i still don't get it, why people have problem with this deal, i MS paid Paramount so what, it was a business deal and every technical reason given no one could deny it, it was a business decision.
I own both format players and i exactly know the problems with BD players using different discs form manufacturers, on the other hand both my HD dvd players works flawlessly.

some of the technical stuff DVD forum was saying for long time but supporters of BD were ignorng them, these are very valid points. HD DVD deserves credit to sticking to their specs. and have finished product in the market today. at the end of day cheaper wins....., it happened before VHS vs betamax.

Stew4HD · 08-24-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iserum

i still don't get it, why people have problem with this deal, i MS paid Paramount so what, it was a business deal and every technical reason given no one could deny it, it was a business decision.
I own both format players and i exactly know the problems with BD players using different discs form manufacturers, on the other hand both my HD dvd players works flawlessly.

some of the technical stuff DVD forum was saying for long time but supporters of BD were ignorng them, these are very valid points. HD DVD deserves credit to sticking to their specs. and have finished product in the market today. at the end of day cheaper wins....., it happened before VHS vs betamax.

It's called diversion. If they can blame M$ for this, then they don't have to believe that their format has any faults.

Lee Stewart · 08-24-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

I read it I just don't believe it. Microsoft cash payment has been confirmed by multiple sources. Plus its the only way Paramounts move makes any sense. The only other option would be that Paramount hates money.

Jimmy . . I have to call you out on this one. Don't get upset. Just provide me two links that prove MS paid $150 million in cash to Paramount/Dreamworks. When you provide the links we can discuss what they say and who said what.

Chris Gerhard · 08-24-2007, 03:53 PM

Paramount and DreamWorks have admitted receiving a financial incentive is how it has been repeated in some articles I have read. The specifics have never been offered, but the NY Times and other publications are reputed to have used the $150,000,000 figure. I admit that amount sounds absurd based on what is at stake, 18 months supporting a format that only sells about 1,500,000 discs a year so far. Paramount/DreamWorks was already part of the 1,500,000. I am pretty good at math and I can't make that incentive package workout to anything that makes even the slightest bit of sense. If it is proven to be false, then I won't have any problem accepting that. This refutation doesn't amount to anything, who knows if he has any clue what Microsoft pays or doesn't pay with business negotiations.

I also don't believe it would be legal for Microsoft to pay Paramount to drop Blu-ray, Paramount is easily justified in doing that without payment, there could have been no profits from the Paramount Blu-ray releases to date. It is the exclusive support of HD DVD that was bought.

Chris

Lee Stewart · 08-24-2007, 04:17 PM

NY TIMES ARTICLE

1. BLOG/Article written by By BROOKS BARNES
Published: August 21, 2007

Who is Brooks Barnes?

2. Two unnamed sources inside the deal:

Quote:

But money talks: Paramount and DreamWorks Animation together will receive about $150 million in financial incentives for their commitment to HD DVD, according to two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified.

3. Who is saying what?

Quote:

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation declined to comment. Microsoft, the most prominent technology company supporting HD DVDs, said it could not rule out payment but said it wrote no checks.

P/DWA declines to comment. Microsoft says possible but they wrote no checks.

Quote:

“We provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks whatsoever,” said Amir Majidimehr, the head of Microsoft’s consumer media technology group.

Microsoft Spokesperson/Executive denies ANY payment of any kind.

And people are looking under rocks for an answer?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/te...rssnyt&emc=rss

Jimmy Smith · 08-24-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Jimmy . . I have to call you out on this one. Don't get upset. Just provide me two links that prove MS paid $150 million in cash to Paramount/Dreamworks. When you provide the links we can discuss what they say and who said what.

You already have posted it

phearcat · 08-24-2007, 04:33 PM

Off topic here but how come all over the net reports are spinning the deal with Paramount and Dreamworks as "An act of desparation" and and yet news like Blu Ray buying and end cap display at Target stores as "signaling the death of HD DVD by Christmas."

The HD movie selection at Target is crappy for both formats so I could care less.

HD DVD supporters seem happy about the news but are not calling for the quick and utter distruction of Blu Ray.

Lee Stewart · 08-24-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

You already have posted it

That's right - I did. So show me the $150 million in cash.

08-24-2007, 01:33 PM	#1
loganhunter200 99 is the magic number Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 472	Dispelling rumors around Paramount/Dreamworks and Microsoft Just found this at Home Theater Forum: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=261297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone, My name is Kevin Collins and I have worked for Microsoft for the last 14 years working on database technology (Jet and SQL Mobile). I have been involved in HD DVD for almost three years; from the HD DVD Video specification process in the DVD Forum to current promotion of HD DVD features. I met a lot of you with the HTF chat in January of this year and hope to do another chat when my schedule permits to have more ongoing discussions. For those that don’t know me, I am a home theater enthusiast. Starting in 1992 I had a Pioneer laser disc player, 1994 I had a Pioneer Elite 51” RPTV, in 1997 I had the Sony DVD player. In 1999 I moved to watching DVD’s on a HTPC on a Sony G70 on a 8ft wide Stewart Filmscreen Studio Tek 130 screen and currently view HD content on a Marantz 1080P DLP PJ with BOTH formats on a Stewart Filmscreen Gray Hawk RS screen. So, even though I work at Microsoft, I have been a home theater enthusiast well before I started on HD DVD at Microsoft. At any rate, since I am constantly traveling for HD DVD I haven't had time to become active on this forum. I’m currently on vacation but something has come up that even my wife hasn’t been able to prevent me from responding to. It has to do with posts regarding why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD. Here is an example of what I am referring to: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp “8/20/07 -- Well... the high-definition format war just got more confusing for consumers, and you can thank the hubris of the folks at Microsoft for it. Their HD-DVD format (because I'm sorry, can anyone really say it still belongs to Toshiba at this point?) badly needed a shot in the arm going into the holiday season, and just got it thanks to suitcases full of cash from the Microsoft camp” I want to go on the record stating that Microsoft did not provide any financial incentives to Paramount/Dreamworks recent decision to support HD DVD. This type of “reporting” amazes me and I challenge anyone to provide proof around these statements. They are unfounded and inaccurate. I’m not writing this to debate opinions on why one format will or will not prevail. I’m a writing this to provide some factual information on why and how Microsoft supports HD DVD to hopefully put to rest some of the incorrect information I see online. Originally Microsoft supported BOTH formats, then two CES’s ago, Microsoft changed to only supporting HD DVD for the following three reasons: 1) Mandatory Managed copy. BD has since also supported this and we are all waiting on the “final agreement” to be completed from AACS. 2) Guaranteed hardware features on ALL HD DVD players. The mandatory features here being persistent storage, secondary video decoder and networking. Microsoft simply believes, as do the studios, including Disney, that interactivity is a reason for consumers to move from DVD. Please reference this document for reasons that the Warner Home Video and Disney put together in the DVD Forum: http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Requi...0HD%20DVD%20Vi deo%20Application-July2005.pdf. Warner Home Video proves this out by releasing different features in 300 and Blood Diamond (networking – sharing scenes with friends and PIP) and Paramount did it with MI:3 last year with PIP only in the HD DVD version. 3) Cheaper, higher yield and greater availability of replication. A perfect case point for this is the European market where there are a multitude of HD DVD titles that are only available from the BD studios in the US. The reason for this? Cheaper replication costs and the ability to use local replicators to produce discs. BD50 discs are only produced at two plants in the world (Terre Haute, IN and Japan). Thanks to no region control in HD DVD we can all legally enjoy “Mr & Mrs Smith”, “The Prestige” and others from sites http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/hd-dvds-c-35.html and http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_st/203-...t=-releasedate. For the record, Microsoft’s involvement in HD DVD rotates around supporting the format by: 1) Xbox 360 HD DVD drive 2) VC-1 support for BOTH formats 3) HDi support 4) Work in the DVD Forum from working groups up to the steering committee. This type of support shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone as this is what Microsoft has historically done, support developers to use tools to provide the best experience for their customers. While a lot of people disagree with data posted on Harry Knowles site (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...oap060107.html) Harry accurately reported why Paramount is supporting HD DVD moving forward when he said (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722): “For those of us consuming these products - it's easy to simply believe decisions are made due to just advertising incentives, but when you speak to the technology guys inside these studios - you hear that HD DVD is cheaper, serves the technological needs of the High Definition format, that the programming languages are an extension of the established DVD format - so it is easier for them to work with. This decision is about more than an intial Toshiba advertising incentive - the decision was made at a tech level, an economic level and about a cost delivery level to the public. Paramount made this decision from the tech guys up.” I hope this clears up the misinformation that has been reported regarding Microsoft’s involvement in the Paramount/Dreamworks decision or in the “rumored” involvement with Warner. For the record, I respect Bill in that we are both enthusiast from the days of laser discs and we are both interested in seeing movies in HD the way that they were originally on film. In the meantime, I look forward to continue showing everyone, with shipping titles, why Microsoft believes in HD DVD. Best, - kevin __________________ F Uuuuuuuuu Toshiba!!!

08-24-2007, 01:46 PM	#3
GLOW PUBLIC ENEMY #1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chi 'til I die Age: 30 Posts: 7,647	Listening to this guy is the equivalent of listening to Andy Parsons. They have no reason to tell us the real truth behind anything. __________________ "In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria." - Benjamin Franklin

08-24-2007, 02:56 PM	#5
anythingwt one love Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 4,408	Will Microsoft ever release a stand alone HD DVD player? I just don't understand why they would invest so much into the format when they only reap the benefits from 360 owners who want to watch HD movies. You mention they play a bigger part than toshiba at this point, if so, how and why? __________________ "your dreams, minus your doubts, equal your reality"

08-24-2007, 03:28 PM	#8
iserum High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,955	i still don't get it, why people have problem with this deal, i MS paid Paramount so what, it was a business deal and every technical reason given no one could deny it, it was a business decision. I own both format players and i exactly know the problems with BD players using different discs form manufacturers, on the other hand both my HD dvd players works flawlessly. some of the technical stuff DVD forum was saying for long time but supporters of BD were ignorng them, these are very valid points. HD DVD deserves credit to sticking to their specs. and have finished product in the market today. at the end of day cheaper wins....., it happened before VHS vs betamax. __________________ Panasonic 50PX80U/Pioneer BDP-51FD /Toshiba HD A1/Tivo HD SAMSUNG LNT-4661F/ Pioneer BDP-51FD/Dell XPS, Nvidia 9500 GT SONY BRAVIA 40V2500/40 GB PS3, WII, Intel Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 6800 Yamaha RXV1700 Def. Tech. Mythos III, V & Gems, Super Cube III Harmony Remote One Power Conditioner: Belkin PF40

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08-24-2007, 01:37 PM	#2
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,191	Hope Jimmy reads this.

08-24-2007, 03:53 PM	#11
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,207	Paramount and DreamWorks have admitted receiving a financial incentive is how it has been repeated in some articles I have read. The specifics have never been offered, but the NY Times and other publications are reputed to have used the $150,000,000 figure. I admit that amount sounds absurd based on what is at stake, 18 months supporting a format that only sells about 1,500,000 discs a year so far. Paramount/DreamWorks was already part of the 1,500,000. I am pretty good at math and I can't make that incentive package workout to anything that makes even the slightest bit of sense. If it is proven to be false, then I won't have any problem accepting that. This refutation doesn't amount to anything, who knows if he has any clue what Microsoft pays or doesn't pay with business negotiations. I also don't believe it would be legal for Microsoft to pay Paramount to drop Blu-ray, Paramount is easily justified in doing that without payment, there could have been no profits from the Paramount Blu-ray releases to date. It is the exclusive support of HD DVD that was bought. Chris

08-24-2007, 04:33 PM	#14
phearcat Me So HD Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The OC Age: 39 Posts: 698	Off topic here but how come all over the net reports are spinning the deal with Paramount and Dreamworks as "An act of desparation" and and yet news like Blu Ray buying and end cap display at Target stores as "signaling the death of HD DVD by Christmas." The HD movie selection at Target is crappy for both formats so I could care less. HD DVD supporters seem happy about the news but are not calling for the quick and utter distruction of Blu Ray.