300 on blu-ray stomps it's hdd counterpart

Super XP · 08-13-2007, 10:25 AM

Have you noticed? HD DVD in 2005 & 2006 were out selling Blu-Ray at around 3 to 1. And now in 2007 Blu-Ray is somewhat coming back. IMO, this has a lot to do with the aggressive marketing, PR stunts, Press Stunts & the PS3.

HD DVD exclusive backers Toshiba, RCA, Kenwood, Memory-Tech Corporation, Yamaha, NEC, HP, Sanyo, Intel, Universal, Microsoft, & non-exclusive backers NeuNeo, Alpine, Onkyo, Acer, Samsung, LG Electronics (LGE), Fujitsu, Buffalo Technology, Lite On, Meridan, Hitachi Maxell and others need to step up to the plate here in North America and come out with generous incentives for stores & companies to adopt the format & sell it, rent it, etc. so they can also make big dollars.

If they want to keep HD DVD is business far into the late 2008 & even in late 2009 & to eventually take out Blu-Ray, then this Christmas Holliday season will be the time to show off.

By then, I am sure a winner will be announced. And knowing Sony’s medieval tactics, they will claim victory & plaster it all over the news media, internet regardless whether it’s true or not.

mshulman · 08-13-2007, 10:28 AM

HD DVD wasn't out in 2005.

And I think it really only has to do with the PS3. If the PS3 had a DVD player in it and not Blu-ray, where do you think things would stand today?

Lee Stewart · 08-13-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

HD DVD wasn't out in 2005.

And I think it really only has to do with the PS3. If the PS3 had a DVD player in it and not Blu-ray, where do you think things would stand today?

Let me see now . . . hmmmmmmm . . that's a tough one . . . .

If 90+% of all BD players are a PS3 . . . .

Chris Gerhard · 08-13-2007, 11:17 AM

The breakdown of Blu-ray and HD DVD sales is far less than the player breakdown and slightly less than the overall software breakdown. The breakdown between the two isn't good news for HD DVD, but it certainly isn't a stomping, it is just more of the same with the possibility of the HD DVD side making it look positive relatively speaking. If all titles released on both formats result in a similar breakdown, Universal should notice and get their butt in gear and start selling some software. There is only way for Universal to do that.

Chris

Super XP · 08-13-2007, 12:25 PM

Cheap Chinese HD DVD Players May Be on the Way
Author: THOMAS K. ARNOLD
tarnold@questex.com
Posted: June 28, 2007
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...2&newsid=10816

This is really good news for HD DVD. This may be the momentum they need to regain property in this HD battle.

Quote:

The steering committee of the DVD Forum has approved the final draft of a memorandum of understanding with the leading Chinese developer of optical discs, paving the way for the creation of a Chinese HD DVD format.

Lee Stewart · 08-13-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

Cheap Chinese HD DVD Players May Be on the Way
Author: THOMAS K. ARNOLD
tarnold@questex.com
Posted: June 28, 2007
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...2&newsid=10816

This is really good news for HD DVD. This may be the momentum they need to regain property in this HD battle.

This is another HD format - not HD DVD. It is Chinese HD DVD and is not compatable with HD DVD.

See my post #19:

Cheap Chinese HD DVD Players - 1 Step Closer

dobyblue · 08-13-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

Well, maybe so but other people I spoke to tell me that several (Not All) Blu-Ray movies lack picture quality. You can see imperfections on objects & people from the video feed or something in the movies when playing them in HDMI 1080p & 720p. HD DVD does not have this problem, HD DVD is an already proven technology.

Odd then how the average PQ and SQ rating for Blu-ray is higher than the average PQ and SQ rating for HD DVD when looking at High Def Digest, Home Theater Spot, Upcoming Discs, Home Theater Forum and DVD Talk.

This is with over 800 reviews from each format.

High Def Digest 219 HD DVD/235 Blu-ray, Home Theater Spot 208 HD DVD/217 Blu-ray, Home Theater Forum 76 HD DVD/88 Blu-ray, Upcoming Discs 143 HD DVD/126 Blu-ray, DVD Talk 256 HD DVD/268 Blu-ray
08.03.07

Code:

HD DVD	 PQ 	 SQ 	 TOTAL 		Blu-ray	 PQ 	 SQ 	 TOTAL 
HighDef	 3.89 	 3.64 	 3.76 		HighDef	 3.97 	 3.83 	 3.90 
HTSpot	 3.93 	 3.84 	 3.88 		HTSpot	 4.04 	 4.25 	 4.15 
DVDTalk	 3.65 	 3.49 	 3.57 		DVDTalk	 3.68 	 3.71 	 3.69 
HTForum	 3.92 	 3.67 	 3.79 		HTForum	 4.30 	 4.07 	 4.19 
UpDisc	 4.00 	 3.80 	 3.90 		UpDisc	 4.04 	 4.14 	 4.09 
Totals	 3.85 	 3.67 	 3.79 		Totals	 3.94 	 3.96 	 3.95

By studio:

Picture Quality
PQ Studio
4.19 Buena Vista
4.02 Paramount
3.95 Warner
3.94 Sony
3.84 Fox
3.80 Weinstein
3.73 Universal
3.66 Lionsgate

Audio Quality
SQ Studio
4.38 Buena Vista
4.12 Sony
4.08 Fox
3.81 Lionsgate
3.81 Paramount
3.63 Warner
3.63 Universal
3.63 Weinstein

The "other people" you speak to are obviously misleading you unless they are talking about a few titles that are the exception rather than the norm.

Chris Gerhard · 08-13-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Odd then how the average PQ and SQ rating for Blu-ray is higher than the average PQ and SQ rating for HD DVD when looking at High Def Digest, Home Theater Spot, Upcoming Discs, Home Theater Forum and DVD Talk.

This is with over 800 reviews from each format.

High Def Digest 219 HD DVD/235 Blu-ray, Home Theater Spot 208 HD DVD/217 Blu-ray, Home Theater Forum 76 HD DVD/88 Blu-ray, Upcoming Discs 143 HD DVD/126 Blu-ray, DVD Talk 256 HD DVD/268 Blu-ray
08.03.07

Code:

HD DVD	 PQ 	 SQ 	 TOTAL 		Blu-ray	 PQ 	 SQ 	 TOTAL 
HighDef	 3.89 	 3.64 	 3.76 		HighDef	 3.97 	 3.83 	 3.90 
HTSpot	 3.93 	 3.84 	 3.88 		HTSpot	 4.04 	 4.25 	 4.15 
DVDTalk	 3.65 	 3.49 	 3.57 		DVDTalk	 3.68 	 3.71 	 3.69 
HTForum	 3.92 	 3.67 	 3.79 		HTForum	 4.30 	 4.07 	 4.19 
UpDisc	 4.00 	 3.80 	 3.90 		UpDisc	 4.04 	 4.14 	 4.09 
Totals	 3.85 	 3.67 	 3.79 		Totals	 3.94 	 3.96 	 3.95

By studio:

Picture Quality
PQ Studio
4.19 Buena Vista
4.02 Paramount
3.95 Warner
3.94 Sony
3.84 Fox
3.80 Weinstein
3.73 Universal
3.66 Lionsgate

Audio Quality
SQ Studio
4.38 Buena Vista
4.12 Sony
4.08 Fox
3.81 Lionsgate
3.81 Paramount
3.63 Warner
3.63 Universal
3.63 Weinstein

The "other people" you speak to are obviously misleading you unless they are talking about a few titles that are the exception rather than the norm.

Thanks for the great summary and the independent sites reviewing these titles are all we have to go by. Consistently finding Blu-ray better should put a stop to the HD DVD is better nonsense you read here, particularly when coupled with the fact that any file on an HD DVD can be replicated on a Blu-ray disc. Blu-ray can achieve higher bitrates and HD DVD can't match it, the bottom line is only Blu-ray can claim to be better. The differences don't mean much in terms of the format war except to refute the nonsense repeated here claiming HD DVD superiority.

Chris

Super XP · 08-13-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

This is another HD format - not HD DVD. It is Chinese HD DVD and is not compatable with HD DVD.

See my post #19:

Cheap Chinese HD DVD Players - 1 Step Closer

If you read the article I provided, you will see that the Chinese can potencially produce North American HD DVD players for cheap, due to the similar manufacturing.

Read Quote:

Quote:

While a Chinese HD DVD format would have some differences from the global HD DVD format, backers maintain similarities in manufacturing would make it easy for Chinese consumer electronics companies to then also produce HD DVD players for a worldwide market, including the United States.

This will be a massive bonus for HD DVD in North America & Europ.

Chris Gerhard · 08-13-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

Cheap Chinese HD DVD Players May Be on the Way
Author: THOMAS K. ARNOLD
tarnold@questex.com
Posted: June 28, 2007
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...2&newsid=10816

This is really good news for HD DVD. This may be the momentum they need to regain property in this HD battle.

You understand this article is discussing the China only HD DVD players which won't play discs from the rest of the world. The discs made for these players won't play in the HD DVD players for the rest of the world. What it means other than many Chinese movies will be released on that version of HD DVD isn't clear to me. It certainly isn't a factor in the format war in the other countries. Cheap Chinese players for other markets are likely coming for both formats and that impact isn't clear either. A reputable DVD player maker, Funai, maker of many fine Denon players and some other good players sold under Funai brands and other brands including Wal-Mart is set to make Blu-ray players. I expect them to be good and I love my Funai made DVD-1920 and DVD-756 players.

Chris

dobyblue · 08-13-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

Superior?

Absolutely. With blu-ray's specs you can have 40 Mbps video encode and still have enough bandwidth left over for a 24/48 7.1 PCM encode without affecting the video space at all.

It is definitely superior. Now we just need all studios encoding on Blu-ray to follow Sony and Disney's lead and utilize the bandwidth to its full potential whether it be AVC/MPEG-4 or VC-1.

That 48 Mbps A/V total bandwidth will allow you to fit a 142 minute movie.

If you only wanted a handful of releases every month that were top tier then no doubt HD DVD would be fine, but the amount of work it takes on the compressionists side of things to get movies like King Kong and The Matrix to look as good as they do takes time when you have such limited bandwidth.

I don't know about you, but I want movies released at a pace and I personally believe that only Blu-ray has the bandwidth to allow for top quality encodes to be releases at a rapid pace. I think the studio overall PQ numbers stengthen that argument immensely.

Lee Stewart · 08-13-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

If you read the article I provided, you will see that the Chinese can potencially produce North American HD DVD players for cheap, due to the similar manufacturing.

Read Quote:

This will be a massive bonus for HD DVD in North America & Europ.

Yes I know. I started the original thread. But what the DVD Forum ratified was the 3rd HD format. They have nothing to do with who makes what. That is strictly between the manufacturer wanting to make players and the holder of the patents/licenses

Two paragraphs from your article:

Quote:

The steering committee of the DVD Forum has approved the final draft of a memorandum of understanding with the leading Chinese developer of optical discs, paving the way for the creation of a Chinese HD DVD format.

Quote:

While a Chinese HD DVD format would have some differences from the global HD DVD format, backers maintain similarities in manufacturing would make it easy for Chinese consumer electronics companies to then also produce HD DVD players for a worldwide market, including the United States.

Super XP · 08-13-2007, 05:02 PM

The numbers are nothing to go crazy about. They are extremly close. Older Blu-Ray movies were not the greatest in PQ & AQ, but they've gotten much better.

Audio/Video Advantage: Neither
Remote Control Advantage: Blu-Ray
Updates/Compatability Advantage: HD DVD
Bottom Line Advantage: HD DVD
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4219642.html

Lee Stewart · 08-13-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Absolutely. With blu-ray's specs you can have 40 Mbps video encode and still have enough bandwidth left over for a 24/48 7.1 PCM encode without affecting the video space at all.

It is definitely superior. Now we just need all studios encoding on Blu-ray to follow Sony and Disney's lead and utilize the bandwidth to its full potential whether it be AVC/MPEG-4 or VC-1.

That 48 Mbps A/V total bandwidth will allow you to fit a 142 minute movie.

If you only wanted a handful of releases every month that were top tier then no doubt HD DVD would be fine, but the amount of work it takes on the compressionists side of things to get movies like King Kong and The Matrix to look as good as they do takes time when you have such limited bandwidth.

I don't know about you, but I want movies released at a pace and I personally believe that only Blu-ray has the bandwidth to allow for top quality encodes to be releases at a rapid pace. I think the studio overall PQ numbers stengthen that argument immensely.

Well what about these two titles:

Arlington Road (Blu-ray)

Street Date: August 07, 2007
Sony Pictures Home Entertainment

Technical Specs
Blu-ray
BD-25 Single-Layer Disc
Video Resolution/Codec
1080p/MPEG-2

Immortal Beloved (Blu-ray)

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment
Street Date: August 21, 2007

Technical Specs
Blu-ray 25GB Single-Layer
Video Resolution/Codec
1080p/MPEG-2

I don't see either a 50 GB DL BD or AVC/VC-1

Super XP · 08-13-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Yes I know. I started the original thread. But what the DVD Forum ratified was the 3rd HD format. They have nothing to do with who makes what. That is strictly between the manufacturer wanting to make players and the holder of the patents/licenses

Two paragraphs from your article:

So what you are saying is a completely different format to compete with HD DVD & Blu-Ray? Interesting, I never thought of it in that way. Well, anything is possible at this time, because Toshiba has a update patch to increast the bitrate of all HD DVD players & movies to the same bitrate as current hollywood studios use. A patch can go along way, which can make something compatable where as originally it was not.

08-13-2007, 10:28 AM	#92
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,572	HD DVD wasn't out in 2005. And I think it really only has to do with the PS3. If the PS3 had a DVD player in it and not Blu-ray, where do you think things would stand today? __________________ Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 PS3 Sanyo PLV-Z3 Canon HF-10 Onkyo 805 "I eat green berets for breakfast and I'm very hungry!"

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08-13-2007, 10:25 AM	#91
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	Have you noticed? HD DVD in 2005 & 2006 were out selling Blu-Ray at around 3 to 1. And now in 2007 Blu-Ray is somewhat coming back. IMO, this has a lot to do with the aggressive marketing, PR stunts, Press Stunts & the PS3. HD DVD exclusive backers Toshiba, RCA, Kenwood, Memory-Tech Corporation, Yamaha, NEC, HP, Sanyo, Intel, Universal, Microsoft, & non-exclusive backers NeuNeo, Alpine, Onkyo, Acer, Samsung, LG Electronics (LGE), Fujitsu, Buffalo Technology, Lite On, Meridan, Hitachi Maxell and others need to step up to the plate here in North America and come out with generous incentives for stores & companies to adopt the format & sell it, rent it, etc. so they can also make big dollars. If they want to keep HD DVD is business far into the late 2008 & even in late 2009 & to eventually take out Blu-Ray, then this Christmas Holliday season will be the time to show off. By then, I am sure a winner will be announced. And knowing Sony’s medieval tactics, they will claim victory & plaster it all over the news media, internet regardless whether it’s true or not.

08-13-2007, 11:17 AM	#94
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,207	The breakdown of Blu-ray and HD DVD sales is far less than the player breakdown and slightly less than the overall software breakdown. The breakdown between the two isn't good news for HD DVD, but it certainly isn't a stomping, it is just more of the same with the possibility of the HD DVD side making it look positive relatively speaking. If all titles released on both formats result in a similar breakdown, Universal should notice and get their butt in gear and start selling some software. There is only way for Universal to do that. Chris

08-13-2007, 05:02 PM	#103
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	The numbers are nothing to go crazy about. They are extremly close. Older Blu-Ray movies were not the greatest in PQ & AQ, but they've gotten much better. Audio/Video Advantage: Neither Remote Control Advantage: Blu-Ray Updates/Compatability Advantage: HD DVD Bottom Line Advantage: HD DVD http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4219642.html