How many think Combo DVDs will help if priced right?

Jerry1808 · 07-26-2007, 12:08 PM

Well being a supporter of both formats with a blu-ray bias, the combo discs are a good idea IF they're priced the same as a std dvd but given increased production and mastering costs I don't see how that would be possible. I said in another post that J6P is not going to pay a premium for a disc with content he currently doesn't need and may in fact never use.

The combos also don't do much to help resolve the "war" which is the primary reason holding the average consumer back.

Lee Stewart · 07-26-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1808

Well being a supporter of both formats with a blu-ray bias, the combo discs are a good idea IF they're priced the same as a std dvd but given increased production and mastering costs I don't see how that would be possible. I said in another post that J6P is not going to pay a premium for a disc with content he currently doesn't need and may in fact never use.

The combos also don't do much to help resolve the "war" which is the primary reason holding the average consumer back.

Combos and Twins offer one very important step. They bridge DVD to HD DVD. 99% of the market is DVD. HD DVD is showing the consumer that there is a way to have both - just spend a few more bucks. You can play that disc in any player you own no matter what it is:

1. DVD player SAL
2. Portable DVD player
3. Laptop PC
4. PC
5. DVD player in the car
6. HD DVD player in the living room

BRD - only plays on a BRD player - the one in the living room. No bridge to "walk over" to the dominant format - just a giant leap from DVD to BRD.

unotis · 07-26-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1808

Well being a supporter of both formats with a blu-ray bias, the combo discs are a good idea IF they're priced the same as a std dvd but given increased production and mastering costs I don't see how that would be possible. I said in another post that J6P is not going to pay a premium for a disc with content he currently doesn't need and may in fact never use.

The combos also don't do much to help resolve the "war" which is the primary reason holding the average consumer back.

Good post, that is the kind of posting we needed.

Let me just reply to two points you made.

I don't think if they stopped making a SD and seperate HD version of a movie but instead made a Combo of Twin version instead, there would be any increased cost involved because they would stop duplicating the cost of producing two distinct seperate DVDs with their seperate packaging and shipping costs. So they could easily from that stand point be able to offer them for the same price as an SD DVD.

Example (made up numbers) just for the sake of this argument, maybe someone else can come up with the real exact numbers.

Cost of SD DVD:

Production = $5.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total = $8.00

Cost of HD DVD:

Production = $6.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total = $9.00

Total for 2 seperate DVDs = $17.00

Cost to produce Twin or Combo DVD:

Production = $8.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total for Twin or Combo DVD = $11.00

Savings by going with producing one SD/HD DVD over one SD and one HD DVD = $6.00 savings!

The primary reason alot of consumers are holding back is because they don't want to spend money on DVDs that would later become useless if that particular HD format looses, in this case they would have the SD version they would have purchased anyway and they get the HD version basically for free to use if they later decide to change over to the HD format DVD player (which is fast getting into their price point anyway).

All the worry about the format war is taken totally out of the equation for the J6P consumer.

Jerry1808 · 07-26-2007, 02:28 PM

As you said, your costs are just conjecture, maybe within reason but without hard numbers it's just guess work. I just know the few combo's I bought were about $35 and I feel I was backed into a corner and forced to buy the thing if I wanted the movie in hi-def. That's a long way from the $15 to $20 most sdvd's cost these days.

The primary factor slowing adoption of either format is consumer confusion over which will be the survivor, hd-dvd?, blu-ray?, both?, who knows. If J6P has bought a pile of combo hd-dvd discs and blu-ray wins then sure he can still play the sdvd version but unless he bought a hd-dvd player that part is wasted.

If he goes for blu-ray then obviously he has a player for the format and if hd-dvd wins he can still play his existing library along with his sdvd's.

As Lee noted, the big advantage of combos is the ability to play the title in a wide variety of situations and not be restricted to a hi-def machine. This gives the format a distinct advantage over blu-ray and one which hd-dvd should exploit but until there is a clear winner or cheap df players are available (sub $200) most consumers will continue to sit on the sidelines.

(thanks for the nice words unotis)

unotis · 07-26-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1808

As you said, your costs are just conjecture, maybe within reason but without hard numbers it's just guess work. I just know the few combo's I bought were about $35 and I feel I was backed into a corner and forced to buy the thing if I wanted the movie in hi-def. That's a long way from the $15 to $20 most sdvd's cost these days.

The primary factor slowing adoption of either format is consumer confusion over which will be the survivor, hd-dvd?, blu-ray?, both?, who knows. If J6P has bought a pile of combo hd-dvd discs and blu-ray wins then sure he can still play the sdvd version but unless he bought a hd-dvd player that part is wasted.

If he goes for blu-ray then obviously he has a player for the format and if hd-dvd wins he can still play his existing library along with his sdvd's.

As Lee noted, the big advantage of combos is the ability to play the title in a wide variety of situations and not be restricted to a hi-def machine. This gives the format a distinct advantage over blu-ray and one which hd-dvd should exploit but until there is a clear winner or cheap df players are available (sub $200) most consumers will continue to sit on the sidelines.

(thanks for the nice words unotis)

You're welcome!

My costs are just conjecture, but not far off if I remember reading about the costs of production (somewhere on this forum?).

And I've never paid even close to $35 for a combo, the several I have purchased including the soon to arrive 300 Combo DVD were anywhere from $24 to $27 and I don't think that is too bad seeing as I actually get two DVDs for that price.

Lets say I buy 2 SD DVDs at a good price of $15 that would equal $30, so see I actually saved $6 to $3!

Now I know someone will say that they would only buy 1 and save $9 but we also know most new SD DVDs run around $18 to $20 anyway (unless they are catalogs over a year old) so in those cases they would only save $4 to $7, and if they priced them the same they would save nothing.

One more thing if they start to produce the new release editions in Twin or Combo DVDs and people ended up buying them because they wanted the SD version anyway to play at home and the HD version is just there for free, that would still show up as an HD DVD on the sales charts and the studios and CE companies would see that hugh increase in sales as a reason to up their support for the HD DVD format over Blu-Ray because that would be taken as concrete example that HD DVD could ultimately take over the DVD format market by convertly putting high numbers of HD DVDs into the J6P consumer home.

MikeRox · 07-26-2007, 02:58 PM

I think it says it all when SD DVD versions of films are starting to get packaged in with some movies now (from studios not supporting Combo discs) Look at that new Bandai release coming soon.

unotis · 07-29-2007, 09:27 AM

Well, it looks like this would be a great bridge from the DVD to HD DVD for the consumer.

They could purchase the movies they want right now and be able to play them in any DVD player they have (including car, and portable) and later when they decide to step up to a new High Definition DVD player, they will not have to purchase all new movies to take advantage of this.

This would work for either Combo or the new larger capacity Twin discs.

The only drawback it turns out that Blu-Ray cannot also take advantage of this opportunity, I guess they just never planned on it ever being needed.

daleb · 07-29-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

The only drawback it turns out that Blu-Ray cannot also take advantage of this opportunity, I guess they just never planned on it ever being needed.

Their confidence in 'winning' precludes any additional benefits to the consumer unless it's absolutely necessary to maintain a competitive edge.
To think they could have had the only HD player today, with no CD playback, no std. DVD up-conversion, and no internet capability.

mshulman · 07-29-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

Good post, that is the kind of posting we needed.

Let me just reply to two points you made.

I don't think if they stopped making a SD and seperate HD version of a movie but instead made a Combo of Twin version instead, there would be any increased cost involved because they would stop duplicating the cost of producing two distinct seperate DVDs with their seperate packaging and shipping costs. So they could easily from that stand point be able to offer them for the same price as an SD DVD.

Example (made up numbers) just for the sake of this argument, maybe someone else can come up with the real exact numbers.

Cost of SD DVD:

Production = $5.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total = $8.00

Cost of HD DVD:

Production = $6.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total = $9.00

Total for 2 seperate DVDs = $17.00

Cost to produce Twin or Combo DVD:

Production = $8.00
Packaging = $2.00
Shipping = $1.00

Total for Twin or Combo DVD = $11.00

Savings by going with producing one SD/HD DVD over one SD and one HD DVD = $6.00 savings!

The primary reason alot of consumers are holding back is because they don't want to spend money on DVDs that would later become useless if that particular HD format looses, in this case they would have the SD version they would have purchased anyway and they get the HD version basically for free to use if they later decide to change over to the HD format DVD player (which is fast getting into their price point anyway).

All the worry about the format war is taken totally out of the equation for the J6P consumer.

hmm.. interesting. Let's see if this pans out.

300 on DVD - $15.99
300 on HD DVD Combo - $27.95
300 just on HD DVD - $23.95 (estimate based on blu-ray price)

300 on DVD makes them - $8
300 on HD DVD Combo makes them $17
300 on HD DVD only - $13

Wow.. I guess we pay a lot more for the High Def version.. too bad. However, even if they made the Combo price $19.99, they'd still make $9, which makes them $1 more than DVD, but reduces total inventory. There has to be some cost benefit to that. And it would be a huge benefit to the consumer.

But, seeing profits on each, it certainly makes much more sense for them priced as is. Even if the HD DVD Combo was no more expensive, they'd still have a nice profit of $13. The big question is would people who don't have HD DVD today, spend the extra $8 to get the HD version?

unotis · 07-29-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

hmm.. interesting. Let's see if this pans out.

300 on DVD - $15.99 is actually $19.97
300 on HD DVD Combo - $27.95 is actually $29.95
300 just on HD DVD - $23.95 (estimate based on blu-ray price) Blu-Ray price is actually $26.95

300 on DVD makes them - $8
300 on HD DVD Combo makes them $17
300 on HD DVD only - $13

Wow.. I guess we pay a lot more for the High Def version.. too bad. However, even if they made the Combo price $19.99, they'd still make $9, which makes them $1 more than DVD, but reduces total inventory. There has to be some cost benefit to that. And it would be a huge benefit to the consumer.

But, seeing profits on each, it certainly makes much more sense for them priced as is. Even if the HD DVD Combo was no more expensive, they'd still have a nice profit of $13. The big question is would people who don't have HD DVD today, spend the extra $8 to get the HD version?

The whole idea is that the studios could price the Combo/Twin discs the same as the SD DVDs and because of less shipping and production costs (because they are doing double production, packaging and shipping) they would actually end up making slightly more profit per disc and the consumer would get, the new SD DVD they could play right now (in their home, car and portable DVD players) and the HD DVD version they could play later when they decide the upgrade to an HD DVD player is within their price range.

The studios would see vastly increased adoption of the HD DVDs and and assured total eventual dominance without any backlash from the consumer, all they would need to ultimately do is accept slightly decreased/increased profits per disc (depends on how you look at it, loss of profits over pricing the HD DVD discs as they are or increased profits by combining the two individual costs to one lower one), Why would they not do this?

That would take all the worry out of the purchase for your normal J6P consumer and they would think they were getting something for nothing, which we know all consumers love!

unotis · 07-31-2007, 11:28 AM

Well it looks like the answer is a resounding YES!

I only hope the HD DVD group realizes this and start to take advantage of this and really push for an eventual replacement of SD with HD DVD using this valuable tool.

chrpai · 07-31-2007, 11:30 AM

I'd love to see Combo Disks in RedBox's at McD's.

MikeRox · 07-31-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

Well it looks like the answer is a resounding YES!

I only hope the HD DVD group realizes this and start to take advantage of this and really push for an eventual replacement of SD with HD DVD using this valuable tool.

Don't forget it costs more money to produce HD transfers of movies though It's not as simple as "disc costs blah blah why should we pay more?" Alot of people fail to realise that things have "development costs" as well as "manufacturing costs".

I don't doubt that releasing a few major releases as Combo only discs (no SD DVD ver) at SD DVD prices would actually swing this war quite a bit as it would alter migration paths. Even Warner/Paramount could be convinced to do it and just do a HD DVD/DVD combo disc and a Blu Ray ver.

mshulman · 07-31-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

The whole idea is that the studios could price the Combo/Twin discs the same as the SD DVDs and because of less shipping and production costs (because they are doing double production, packaging and shipping) they would actually end up making slightly more profit per disc and the consumer would get, the new SD DVD they could play right now (in their home, car and portable DVD players) and the HD DVD version they could play later when they decide the upgrade to an HD DVD player is within their price range.

The studios would see vastly increased adoption of the HD DVDs and and assured total eventual dominance without any backlash from the consumer, all they would need to ultimately do is accept slightly decreased/increased profits per disc (depends on how you look at it, loss of profits over pricing the HD DVD discs as they are or increased profits by combining the two individual costs to one lower one), Why would they not do this?

That would take all the worry out of the purchase for your normal J6P consumer and they would think they were getting something for nothing, which we know all consumers love!

I love combo's, but I have to disagree with the pricing.

Yes, they are doubling efforts today, but in the end if the DVD is $7 to produce and the HD-DVD Combo $11 to produce, they make more money today by selling both separate.

$7 DVD is sold for $15 for $8 profit
$11 HD-DVD Combo is sold for $28 for $17 profit

If they marked the Combo down to $15, they'd make $4
If they marked it as $20, they make $9.

And I'm using the Amazon prices, because I simply wanted to use 1 standard price for all the versions. Studio obviously makes less because amazon needs to make something as well. Either way, its much more in the studios benefit to keep selling the DVD and HD DVD Combo at the current prices.

I wish they'd realize they need to do more to benefit the consumer and reduce the Combo price, but that doesn't seem to be happening yet. Even at $20, they'd make $1 more on each disc, but would the DVD buyer be happy paying $5 more?

MikeRox · 07-31-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

but would the DVD buyer be happy paying $5 more?

Simple answer. No, they won't see why they should have to pay extra for something they may never use.

View Poll Results: If Priced right would "Combo" DVDs help the trasnsition to High Definition?
Combo DVDs will help ease the transition to High Definition video.	39	79.59%
Combo DVDs are a waste of time and shouldn't ever be offered.	4	8.16%
Single HD or Blu-ray DVDs are just fine.	6	12.24%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

07-26-2007, 12:08 PM	#121
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	Well being a supporter of both formats with a blu-ray bias, the combo discs are a good idea IF they're priced the same as a std dvd but given increased production and mastering costs I don't see how that would be possible. I said in another post that J6P is not going to pay a premium for a disc with content he currently doesn't need and may in fact never use. The combos also don't do much to help resolve the "war" which is the primary reason holding the average consumer back. __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One Last edited by Jerry1808; 07-26-2007 at 12:11 PM.

07-26-2007, 02:28 PM	#124
Jerry1808 Home Theater Fan Join Date: May 2006 Location: seattle Posts: 831	As you said, your costs are just conjecture, maybe within reason but without hard numbers it's just guess work. I just know the few combo's I bought were about $35 and I feel I was backed into a corner and forced to buy the thing if I wanted the movie in hi-def. That's a long way from the $15 to $20 most sdvd's cost these days. The primary factor slowing adoption of either format is consumer confusion over which will be the survivor, hd-dvd?, blu-ray?, both?, who knows. If J6P has bought a pile of combo hd-dvd discs and blu-ray wins then sure he can still play the sdvd version but unless he bought a hd-dvd player that part is wasted. If he goes for blu-ray then obviously he has a player for the format and if hd-dvd wins he can still play his existing library along with his sdvd's. As Lee noted, the big advantage of combos is the ability to play the title in a wide variety of situations and not be restricted to a hi-def machine. This gives the format a distinct advantage over blu-ray and one which hd-dvd should exploit but until there is a clear winner or cheap df players are available (sub $200) most consumers will continue to sit on the sidelines. (thanks for the nice words unotis) __________________ Sony Qualia 70" lcos Rotel RSX-1067 recvr Toshiba XA2 Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Def Tech 7002's fnt, 2002 ctr Def Tech Supercube 1 sub MK THX SS150's rear Harmony 880 (2) Monster Pwr Cntr HTS-3600 (2) Comcast 6412 pvrs (2) ___________________ Pioneer Elite Pro920hd plasma Pioneer Elite 79Avi dvd Toshiba A30 & A35 Harmony One Last edited by Jerry1808; 07-26-2007 at 02:37 PM.

07-29-2007, 09:27 AM	#127
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Well, it looks like this would be a great bridge from the DVD to HD DVD for the consumer. They could purchase the movies they want right now and be able to play them in any DVD player they have (including car, and portable) and later when they decide to step up to a new High Definition DVD player, they will not have to purchase all new movies to take advantage of this. This would work for either Combo or the new larger capacity Twin discs. The only drawback it turns out that Blu-Ray cannot also take advantage of this opportunity, I guess they just never planned on it ever being needed. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

07-31-2007, 11:28 AM	#131
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Well it looks like the answer is a resounding YES! I only hope the HD DVD group realizes this and start to take advantage of this and really push for an eventual replacement of SD with HD DVD using this valuable tool. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

07-26-2007, 02:58 PM	#126
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,417	I think it says it all when SD DVD versions of films are starting to get packaged in with some movies now (from studios not supporting Combo discs) Look at that new Bandai release coming soon.

07-31-2007, 11:30 AM	#132
chrpai High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 552	I'd love to see Combo Disks in RedBox's at McD's.

Similar Threads to How many think Combo DVDs will help if priced right?
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
HD-DVD/DVD Combo - One More Sucky Thing About It	alra111	High Definition Media	13	08-26-2007 03:33 PM
HD DVDs & Blue Ray DVDs?	NavysGirl9	High Definition Media	11	06-03-2007 06:18 PM
Recordable HD DVD's	johndoe	HD DVD Players	41	07-27-2006 08:16 PM
When will you stop buying DVDs	IMpoor	HD DVD Players	9	05-16-2006 04:40 PM
Standard DVD's - high definition? (newbie)	Doowopper	HD DVD Players	5	06-13-2005 09:19 AM