How many think Combo DVDs will help if priced right?

Lee Stewart · 07-23-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I would take one Salma over a harem of Wynonas.

But he gave Salma up . . .

Quote:

Instead of buying any more HD media, I'm simply going to invest ~$250 in an external HDD for archiving E* satellite HD programming. For roughly the same cost as 8-10 Combo's, I can archive ~60 movies recorded in MPEG4 HD. Sure the PQ won't be up to quite the same standard but, I'll be saving money

daleb · 07-23-2007, 09:11 PM

Considering 'who' totally bashes the concept of combo disks, it must be a brilliant idea!
Can't believe it's taken me this long to figure that out.

samcan07 · 07-23-2007, 09:15 PM

Double sided discs weren't that popular with standard DVD buyers and I think it would be the same with the Hi Def format as well.

**PFC5** · 07-23-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcan07

Double sided discs weren't that popular with standard DVD buyers and I think it would be the same with the Hi Def format as well.

Ah, maybe yes maybe no, but the TWIN discs are BOTH (SD & HD) formats on ONE side. They also automatically choose which player it is in and plays the correct format. If you put it in a HD DVD player it plays the DL HD DVD portion. If you put it in a SD Player, it plays the SD portion of the disc.

How does THAT grab you Sam?

samcan07 · 07-23-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Ah, maybe yes maybe no, but the TWIN discs are BOTH (SD & HD) formats on ONE side. They also automatically choose which player it is in and plays the correct format. If you put it in a HD DVD player it plays the DL HD DVD portion. If you put it in a SD Player, it plays the SD portion of the disc.

How does THAT grab you Sam?

If they can fit it all on one side without loosing anything from the Hi Def part that's fine. It grabs me!!!

Lee Stewart · 07-23-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Ah, maybe yes maybe no, but the TWIN discs are BOTH (SD & HD) formats on ONE side. They also automatically choose which player it is in and plays the correct format. If you put it in a HD DVD player it plays the DL HD DVD portion. If you put it in a SD Player, it plays the SD portion of the disc.

How does THAT grab you Sam?

I know you are very hot on this TWIN disc and it really does look like the answer. But again - it is limited to about 95 minutes.

I just went through the top 100 movies of all time (box office champs in the USA) - picking and chooing - and the only movies I found at this time limit are the CGI/PIXAR style films - SHREK 2 - those kinds of movies. Even FINDING NEMO is 100 minutes (and yes Disney but it won't fit).

It's a great idea with a severe limitation.

**PFC5** · 07-23-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I know you are very hot on this TWIN disc and it really does look like the answer. But again - it is limited to about 95 minutes.

I just went through the top 100 movies of all time (box office champs in the USA) - picking and chooing - and the only movies I found at this time limit are the CGI/PIXAR style films - SHREK 2 - those kinds of movies. Even FINDING NEMO is 100 minutes (and yes Disney but it won't fit).

It's a great idea with a severe limitation.

What the hell are you talking about Lee????

Where do you get that only 95 minutes will fit on a 30GB dl HD DVD disc? Are you on crack?

Maybe you do not know that they can do DL HD DVD with the TWIN format.

**bruceames** · 07-23-2007, 11:15 PM

Maybe he was talking about the SD portion? If the HD portion is 34 gb then even a 4 hour movie with a DTHD track will fit. The SD portion is 4.7 gb SL but a 130 minute movie should fit on 4.7 gb (although you won't have many special features besides a commentary tracks and featurette, the main body of special features would go on the HD portion).

Lee Stewart · 07-24-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

What the hell are you talking about Lee????

Where do you get that only 95 minutes will fit on a 30GB dl HD DVD disc? Are you on crack?

Maybe you do not know that they can do DL HD DVD with the TWIN format.

The TWIN is a 15GB SL HD layer. It is NOT a 30GB DL. If this info is wrong please provide a link

FREEDOM 1

This HD DVD release of 'Freedom 1' is unique in several ways: not only is it the first anime title to be released on HD DVD in the US, but it's also the first US-release of a "Twin-Format" HD DVD/DVD disc. Not to be confused with double-sided HD DVD/DVD combo discs, twin-format discs can contain up to three layers of recorded content on a single-sided disc. 'Freedom 1' uses two of those layers -- a 15GB HD DVD layer, and a 4.6GB standard-def DVD layer

HD DVD Single Layer 15GB
DVD Layer 4.6GB
Twin Format Disc

**PFC5** · 07-24-2007, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The TWIN is a 15GB SL HD layer. It is NOT a 30GB DL. If this info is wrong please provide a link

FREEDOM 1

This HD DVD release of 'Freedom 1' is unique in several ways: not only is it the first anime title to be released on HD DVD in the US, but it's also the first US-release of a "Twin-Format" HD DVD/DVD disc. Not to be confused with double-sided HD DVD/DVD combo discs, twin-format discs can contain up to three layers of recorded content on a single-sided disc. 'Freedom 1' uses two of those layers -- a 15GB HD DVD layer, and a 4.6GB standard-def DVD layer

HD DVD Single Layer 15GB
DVD Layer 4.6GB
Twin Format Disc

Yes maybe THAT disc is only SL HD DVD, but even what it said was it could have THREE layers. It can have 2 layers as HD DVD. You are the master of links Lee, so I am sure you can find this info faster than I could find it again.

Lee Stewart · 07-24-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Yes maybe THAT disc is only SL HD DVD, but even what it said was it could have THREE layers. It can have 2 layers as HD DVD. You are the master of links Lee, so I am sure you can find this info faster than I could find it again.

Thank you for the compliment. Unfortunately as I keep telling you the only 3 layer discs that I can find are the 45 and 51 GB TL HD DVD's.

Remember I told you I had that discussion with Steeb? - it was over this issue. And he provided me with enough information to soundly say that the only TWIN format disc is the one that was used for FREEDOM 1.

Did you know that BRD had a TWIN format experimental disc? It was made by JVC, It is stillborn and cannot be brought back to life due to issues that just could not be over come. Just look at Wiki's description for BlueRay. It's there. If you want I can show you a picture of it.

There is no 30GB TL Twin Format disc - sorry to say. What you see is what you get.

EDIT:

Well it appears it is time for me to eat a bit of crow:

http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/4392

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...911142934.html

They have been announced - but that this time they are not being used yet - but they do exist - so you are right.

Somebody pass the salt and pepper please

PS: did you notice we hit 193 active users today? new record!

**PFC5** · 07-24-2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Thank you for the compliment. Unfortunately as I keep telling you the only 3 layer discs that I can find are the 45 and 51 GB TL HD DVD's.

Remember I told you I had that discussion with Steeb? - it was over this issue. And he provided me with enough information to soundly say that the only TWIN format disc is the one that was used for FREEDOM 1.

Did you know that BRD had a TWIN format experimental disc? It was made by JVC, It is stillborn and cannot be brought back to life due to issues that just could not be over come. Just look at Wiki's description for BlueRay. It's there. If you want I can show you a picture of it.

There is no 30GB TL Twin Format disc - sorry to say. What you see is what you get.

PS: did you notice we hit 193 active users today? new record!

This only took me 1 minute to find:

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2006_09/pr1101.htm

Quote:

New disc supports high capacities of both standard DVD and HD DVD on a single disc Memory-Tech Corporation
Toshiba Corporation
Tokyo--Memory-Tech Corporation and Toshiba Corporation today announced the latest advance in DVD disc technology: a jointly developed, single-sided, three-layer ROM disc supporting high capacity storage and playback of both DVD and HD DVD formats.
The newly announced disc is the latest addition to the DVD TWIN format, discs that support both DVD and HD DVD content and that are fully compatible with both formats. The new disc boosts capacity and expands versatility with a three-layer structure offering support for two HD DVD layers and one DVD layer or two DVD layers and one HD DVD layer. Memory-Tech and Toshiba will propose the new disc to the HD DVD Forum, the industry body that defines DVD standards.
In a two-layer HD DVD configuration, the new TWIN disc has a 30GB HD DVD capacity, plus 4.7GB of standard DVD capacity. Configured to maximize standard DVD content, the disc can support 8.5GB on two layers, plus 15GB of HD DVD content on the third layer. DVD content can be played back on a standard DVD player, while HD DVD players can play back both formats.
Memory-Tech and Toshiba together proposed the DVD/HD DVD TWIN to the DVD Forum in 2004, as a transitional format able to support both standard DVD and HD DVD content. The single-sided, dual-layer TWIN disc was adopted as part of the HD DVD specifications, and has found wide application since HD DVD players and PC drives were launched in the Japanese and North American markets in March this year. One advantage is its ability to support both standard definition and high definition versions of a movie, allowing users to play it back now on present DVD players, and to enjoy the high definition version once they upgrade to an HD DVD player.
The only drawback with the first generation TWIN disc was its limited capacity: support for 15GB of HD DVD content and 4.7GB of DVD content. The new 3-layer disc meets demand from movie studios and software companies in North America and Japan for a capacity boost, and offers double the maximum capacity for each format.

The new disc also maintains two defining features of the HD DVD format: a low cost and highly efficient manufacturing process. Memory-Tech has developed a new disc manufacturing procedure that adds an additional process to form the third layer, but does so on the same disc replication machines that can be used for DVD and HD DVD mass production.
Major content companies have welcomed the new format.
"We have been releasing TWIN Format titles since April," said Mr Hideki Oyagi, General Manager, Visual Entertainment Department, PONY CANYON INC. "We are getting very positive feedback from the market, and our TWIN Format titles are selling better than anticipated. The new 3-layer TWIN Format will allows us to develop even more products and I am sure it will accelerate acceptance of the HD DVD format in the market. We welcome the fact that the new format will be accepted as part of HD DVD family format in the near future"

"We offer our congratulations on the announcement of the new 3-layer TWIN Format," said Mr Kazuo Sakai, Program Vice President, Digital Entertainment Partner Program, Microsoft Corporation." We hoping the new format finds wide acceptance and supports content development, and promotes consumer adoption of HD DVD."
Memory-Tech and Toshiba will propose the new format to DVD Forum and develop reliable disc manufacturing process together. Memory-Tech and Toshiba will introduce the new format to content providers and develop new business opportunities together with studio partners.

Here is another one:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=18437

Quote:

Three-Layer TWIN Format Disc

DVD Forum announced that the standardization of the DVD TWIN format discs will be finished early 2007, while the first discs are expected on the market in the summer of 2007.

Discs that support both DVD and HD DVD content and that are fully compatible with both formats. The DVD TWIN format discs are single-sided, three-layer ROM disc supporting high capacity storage and playback of both DVD and HD DVD formats.

The new disc boosts capacity and expands versatility with a three-layer structure offering support for two HD DVD layers and one DVD layer or two DVD layers and one HD DVD layer. The format has been proposed to the DVD Forum by Memory-Tech and Toshiba.

In a two-layer HD DVD configuration, the new TWIN disc has a 30GB HD DVD capacity, plus 4.7GB of standard DVD capacity. Configured to maximize standard DVD content, the disc can support 8.5GB on two layers, plus 15GB of HD DVD content on the third layer. DVD content can be played back on a standard DVD player, while HD DVD players can play back both formats.

Now do you believe me Lee?

Lee Stewart · 07-24-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Now do you believe me Lee?

See above posted - EDITED

**PFC5** · 07-24-2007, 02:12 AM

I didn't see the edit before I posted. lol

unotis · 07-24-2007, 01:30 PM

Wow, good information!

Now can we say Twin Discs and Combo discs "if priced right" would really help ease and speed the transition from SD to HD DVDs by the general J6P consumer and would be a win win situation for everyone!

If anyone disagrees please post and give us some reasons!

View Poll Results: If Priced right would "Combo" DVDs help the trasnsition to High Definition?
Combo DVDs will help ease the transition to High Definition video.	39	79.59%
Combo DVDs are a waste of time and shouldn't ever be offered.	4	8.16%
Single HD or Blu-ray DVDs are just fine.	6	12.24%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

07-23-2007, 09:11 PM	#92
daleb High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 7,351	Considering 'who' totally bashes the concept of combo disks, it must be a brilliant idea! Can't believe it's taken me this long to figure that out. __________________ Samsung PN50A650 plasma, Arcam AVR350, Dali Ikon6 (Vokal2&OnWalls), Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX sub, Anti-Mode 8033B, Oppo Digital BDP-83, Polk XM Tuner, Furman Elite power conditioner

07-23-2007, 11:15 PM	#98
bruceames Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Rafael, CA Posts: 10,170	Maybe he was talking about the SD portion? If the HD portion is 34 gb then even a 4 hour movie with a DTHD track will fit. The SD portion is 4.7 gb SL but a 130 minute movie should fit on 4.7 gb (although you won't have many special features besides a commentary tracks and featurette, the main body of special features would go on the HD portion). __________________ Blu-rays: 55 Latest purchases: John Adams, Gone With the Wind, Up, Rocky: The Undisputed Collection

07-24-2007, 02:12 AM	#104
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,385	I didn't see the edit before I posted. lol __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

07-24-2007, 01:30 PM	#105
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Wow, good information! Now can we say Twin Discs and Combo discs "if priced right" would really help ease and speed the transition from SD to HD DVDs by the general J6P consumer and would be a win win situation for everyone! If anyone disagrees please post and give us some reasons! __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

07-23-2007, 09:15 PM	#93
samcan07 We're caught in a trap... Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 927	Double sided discs weren't that popular with standard DVD buyers and I think it would be the same with the Hi Def format as well.

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