How many think Combo DVDs will help if priced right?

mshulman · 07-23-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

I'm hoping someone will actually discuss their reasons for support of the Combo and give reason why it is good for the adoption of high definition DVDs by the consumer or the opposite give their reasons to oppose the Combo DVD?

I'll tell you why I support it...

DVD players are everywhere. They are in cars, computers, portably players and in many homes, one is hooked up to every TV!

With all the places DVD's can be played, I hardly see the more typical consumer - The one that just recently got an HDTV and enjoys it and also enjoys movies. The same one that doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a player, more on a movie and find out it will only work on this new player.

Unlike many of us here, the person above WILL watch regular DVD's and probably doesn't cringe when watching anything but HD.

As an example, when CARS is released, would the above consumer want to get the blu-ray copy knowing their kids would want to watch it in the car? And would they want the DVD version knowing they couldn't make use of their new blu-ray player? No, they'd probably want the HD DVD combo version that would allow them to enjoy it in both places.

I think this is something many blu-ray only supports overlook. Most consumers aren't ready for a new format, let alone one that requires a new player. At least they can ease in to a new format with Combo's.

unotis · 07-23-2007, 03:11 PM

Now that is what I was hoping someone would post!

A real opinion with reasons to back it up.

Now could someone that believes the opposite please post his reasons, so we could all be educated.

And not hear the same old "fanboy" postings (either side) that are not based on fact just what they want to be true.

I would like some real educational results from the thread, and to help the new to high defintion viewers understand the debate better.

Lee Stewart · 07-23-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

Now that is what I was hoping someone would post!

A real opinion with reasons to back it up.

Now could someone that believes the opposite please post his reasons, so we could all be educated.

And not hear the same old "fanboy" postings (either side) that are not based on fact just what they want to be true.

I would like some real educational results from the thread, and to help the new to high defintion viewers understand the debate better.

I will twist my Combo Supporter hat around . . there we go - now I will tell you why Combo's are bad.

1. Price - Gripes! The cost of an HD DVD is high enough - now we have to add it that? For something I may never use? I am building a collection of HD DVD's - not DVD's

2. Silkscreen - Man! - I want some kind of a picture on my HD DVD - these things look like blanks!

3. Greedy Studios - Geez! Who the hell is going to buy this? an HD DVD owner - that's who - Do they really believe a DVD owner with no HDTV is going to pay $30+ for a DVD when he can buy the same movie ON DVD for half that price? What? He is going to get a head start on his HD DVD collection when he can afford an HDTV and a HD DVD player . . . Gimme A Break!

4. HD DVD versus DVD - Holy Cow! - HD DVD should be trying to replace DVD - not jump in bed with it! The next generation of optical media . . ."The look and sound of perfect" - why associate HD DVD with DVD? It is High Definition DVD.

mshulman · 07-23-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I will twist my Combo Supporter hat around . . there we go - now I will tell you why Combo's are bad.

1. Price - Gripes! The cost of an HD DVD is high enough - now we have to add it that? For something I may never use? I am building a collection of HD DVD's - not DVD's

2. Silkscreen - Man! - I want some kind of a picture on my HD DVD - these things look like blanks!

3. Greedy Studios - Geez! Who the hell is going to buy this? an HD DVD owner - that's who - Do they really believe a DVD owner with no HDTV is going to pay $30+ for a DVD when he can buy the same movie ON DVD for half that price? What? He is going to get a head start on his HD DVD collection when he can afford an HDTV and a HD DVD player . . . Gimme A Break!

4. HD DVD versus DVD - Holy Cow! - HD DVD should be trying to replace DVD - not jump in bed with it! The next generation of optical media . . ."The look and sound of perfect" - why associate HD DVD with DVD? It is High Definition DVD.

Thanks Lee..

Here's why none of those arguments fit

1. Prices will drop. Even if they don't match HD DVD prices, $2-3 more would certainly not be a big deal. The $7 some of them are is what's ridiculous.

2. Got nothing here. I think the silkscreen is not only a nice look, but makes it easier to handle the discs. Twin's could take care of this, assuming a 3 layer HD DVD can handle all movies. Maybe some would have to be Combo's and some Twin's based on movie size, but as long as 1 package contains DVD/HD DVD, its fine by me. And if Blu-ray wants to combat this by including the DVD version in the Blu-ray case, I'll support blu-ray just as much (well.. DRM still bugs me though).

3. Again, prices should lower over time. In addition, DVD's could cease to be released. Another thing blu-ray can't do.

4. You are too funny

I think another big advantage that I probably didn't mention is the ability (if priced right) for studios to not produce 2 formats. Produce 1 single HD DVD Combo.

Retailers would benefit from this as well since double the shelf space wouldn't be taken up.

**PFC5** · 07-23-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I will twist my Combo Supporter hat around . . there we go - now I will tell you why Combo's are bad.

I will respond to refute these in the name of "balance".

Quote:

1. Price - Gripes! The cost of an HD DVD is high enough - now we have to add it that? For something I may never use? I am building a collection of HD DVD's - not DVD's

You missed the "priced Right" part. We all agree that they are pricing them too high right now. Just remember that MOST people WILL be able to use the DVD side in other rooms/cars, etc that do not have HD DVD players now. Like kids rooms, etc for the Disney flicks. Oh wait, Disney cannot do combos, unless they release on HD DVD.

Quote:

2. Silkscreen - Man! - I want some kind of a picture on my HD DVD - these things look like blanks!

Who the hell stares at there discs. I just put mine in my player to watch THE MOVIE. Besides, the TWIN disc format will fix that too.

Quote:

3. Greedy Studios - Geez! Who the hell is going to buy this? an HD DVD owner - that's who - Do they really believe a DVD owner with no HDTV is going to pay $30+ for a DVD when he can buy the same movie ON DVD for half that price? What? He is going to get a head start on his HD DVD collection when he can afford an HDTV and a HD DVD player . . . Gimme A Break!

You are correct that at the current prices most SD DVD player only owners will be the combos, but refer back to the answer for the first item.

Quote:

4. HD DVD versus DVD - Holly Cow! - HD DVD should be trying to replace DVD - not jump in bed with it! The next generation of optical media . . ."The look and sound of perfect" - why associate HD DVD with DVD? It is High Definition DVD.

That is BD's fight since they cannot live well with SD DVD still around, but HD DVD can live together in harmony and gradually replace SD DVDs once the CONSUMER is ready to make the transition. That is the beauty of the combo disc but even better the TWIN format which has both HD & SD on the same side. IF the studios price TWIN discs at the same price as SD DVDs for at least the new releases, they only loses pennies per disc but move people stealthily to a better format to protect their content, AND they can get double dipped movie sales on movies they sold years ago from their catalog too which will ADD reveune AND protect their content better for the long run.

Stew4HD · 07-23-2007, 04:05 PM

#2 is a biggie for me too..trying to swap out a disc in my HT room in the near darkness... grrr

Maybe add braile ?

unotis · 07-23-2007, 04:12 PM

Well written, now could someone that actually does feel Combo (and Twin) discs if "priced right" do not benefit the high definition format in the adoption by the general J6P consumer (the one that is hesitant right now) of High Definition DVDs?

And please just give well thought out reasons to support your opinion (with links if possible), help everyone out.

Lee Stewart · 07-23-2007, 04:59 PM

For those of you who responded to me . . thank you for staying in the spirit of my post - some "facts" mixed with humor.

But I keep seeing the TWIN Format mentioned. It is only a 15 GB HD DVD layer. This will hold about 95 minutes - the new HD DVD of STREETS OF FIRE is an HD-15 . . . .not an HD-30 and it is 91 minutes long. So we are limited to the movies that are this length. Most I believe, are longer.

There is nothing to indicate that the TWIN Format will go to 3 layers. We can only deal with what is . . . not what could be.

The same for the pricing of the COMBO - "it will fall" you all said. When? Now we have both WB and Uni releasing in this format - driving up the price of an HD DVD. At a time we need to lower them.

What happens if the "when" doesn't come about for another 12 to 16 months? That can't be too good for HD DVD. Cheap players . . . Expensive movies?

mshulman · 07-23-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The same for the pricing of the COMBO - "it will fall" you all said. When? Now we have both WB and Uni releasing in this format - driving up the price of an HD DVD. At a time we need to lower them.

What happens if the "when" doesn't come about for another 12 to 16 months? That can't be too good for HD DVD. Cheap players . . . Expensive movies?

All good points.

I think price matters, but I also think in many cases it doesn't. Take rentals. Rent a combo and watch it anywhere. I've actually made use of this myself on occasion.

I think what has always made me support HD DVD And Combo's inparticular is looking at things without dual formats. Everything being even, wouldn't having a dual format blu-ray be a good thing? The big question is: Which format has the better chance of being adopted by J6P? With the right support, I see HD DVD as that format.

Take away HD DVD tomorrow and blu-ray isn't going to excel by that much more. There are far too many J6P's that still want to use their DVD players.

unotis · 07-23-2007, 05:50 PM

That is exactly why I think this is too good of an opportunity for them to miss out on!

I originally meant Combo discs, I had forgotten about the capacity limits of Twin discs (maybe they could be improved later with more capacity).

Perhaps more an opportunity for HD DVD then Blu-Ray because of their design issues (could they over come that and also do it?), I don't know that much about their limits or future improvements.

**PFC5** · 07-23-2007, 06:15 PM

Currently there is a TWIN disc movie that has DL HD DVD and SL SD DVD all on the same side. There is also supposed to be more discs coming out with DL HD DVD and DL SD DVD on the same side.

No need to worry which side to play or select anything on the disc menus. It will just play the HD DVD layers if it is put in a HD DVD player and it will just play the SD layers if put into a SD DVD player. It sounds idiot proof for the thecno challenged, but some of them NEVER cease to amaze me on how they can screw something up.

Allin4greeN · 07-23-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

Without getting into "fanboy" rants, how many truly think if "Combo" discs having one side with High Defintion and the reverse side having Standard Definition and they were priced around the same price as a normal SD DVD would help the public accept high definiton DVDs more easily and gradually change over?

Seems like a faulty premise to begin with... If Combo's were currently priced around the same as an SD DVD, who wouldn't buy 'em? BD-only folks excluded, of course. Given your assumption, Combo's would constitute 100% of my media purchases. Now, just let me know when they reach that price point, OK?

Then again, if Salma Hayek came packaged with Roseanne Barr for the same price as just Rosseanne Barr, I'd have to think twice about playing that media in my bedroom upconverting DVD player. If ya know what I mean... If you don't, it means I'm willing to pay a premium for quality but, I won't pay a premium for crap I have no interest in.

Instead of buying any more HD media, I'm simply going to invest ~$250 in an external HDD for archiving E* satellite HD programming. For roughly the same cost as 8-10 Combo's, I can archive ~60 movies recorded in MPEG4 HD. Sure the PQ won't be up to quite the same standard but, I'll be saving money... that, and no Rosseanne Barr

Lee Stewart · 07-23-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allin4greeN

Seems like a faulty premise to begin with... If Combo's were currently priced around the same as an SD DVD, who wouldn't buy 'em? BD-only folks excluded, of course. Given your assumption, Combo's would constitute 100% of my media purchases. Now, just let me know when they reach that price point, OK?

Then again, if Salma Hayek came packaged with Roseanne Barr for the same price as just Rosseanne Barr, I'd have to think twice about playing that media in my bedroom upconverting DVD player. If ya know what I mean... If you don't, it means I'm willing to pay a premium for quality but, I won't pay a premium for crap I have no interest in.

Instead of buying any more HD media, I'm simply going to invest ~$250 in an external HDD for archiving E* satellite HD programming. For roughly the same cost as 8-10 Combo's, I can archive ~60 movies recorded in MPEG4 HD. Sure the PQ won't be up to quite the same standard but, I'll be saving money... that, and no Rosseanne Barr

Sounds like a good deal. Though you do admit that Salma is no longer part of the deal - not as good - very happy with.

So maybe you are trading in both Roseanne and Salma - and getting Wynnoa Ryder instead

Allin4greeN · 07-23-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

...So maybe you are trading in both Roseanne and Salma - and getting Wynnoa Ryder instead

True that, Lee! I think I can live with Wynnona... as long as she doesn't steal my satellite dish

**PFC5** · 07-23-2007, 08:41 PM

I would take one Salma over a harem of Wynonas.

View Poll Results: If Priced right would "Combo" DVDs help the trasnsition to High Definition?
Combo DVDs will help ease the transition to High Definition video.	39	79.59%
Combo DVDs are a waste of time and shouldn't ever be offered.	4	8.16%
Single HD or Blu-ray DVDs are just fine.	6	12.24%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

07-23-2007, 03:11 PM	#77
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Now that is what I was hoping someone would post! A real opinion with reasons to back it up. Now could someone that believes the opposite please post his reasons, so we could all be educated. And not hear the same old "fanboy" postings (either side) that are not based on fact just what they want to be true. I would like some real educational results from the thread, and to help the new to high defintion viewers understand the debate better. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way Last edited by unotis; 07-23-2007 at 03:13 PM.

07-23-2007, 04:05 PM	#81
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,068	#2 is a biggie for me too..trying to swap out a disc in my HT room in the near darkness... grrr Maybe add braile ? __________________ ___________________________________

07-23-2007, 04:12 PM	#82
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	Well written, now could someone that actually does feel Combo (and Twin) discs if "priced right" do not benefit the high definition format in the adoption by the general J6P consumer (the one that is hesitant right now) of High Definition DVDs? And please just give well thought out reasons to support your opinion (with links if possible), help everyone out. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way

07-23-2007, 05:50 PM	#85
unotis UNOTIS Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: FLORIDA Age: 54 Posts: 3,347	That is exactly why I think this is too good of an opportunity for them to miss out on! I originally meant Combo discs, I had forgotten about the capacity limits of Twin discs (maybe they could be improved later with more capacity). Perhaps more an opportunity for HD DVD then Blu-Ray because of their design issues (could they over come that and also do it?), I don't know that much about their limits or future improvements. __________________ B&K Audio/Video Receiver 507 Harman/Kardon TC30 universal remote Martin Logan Odyssey speakers Martin Logan Center Channel speaker Velodyne DPS-12 Powered Subwoofer B&W rear speakers Toshiba XA1, XA2, A2 HD DVD players Sony PS3 40 GB Panasonic TH-42PZ700U 1080p plasma Panasonic 34" Tau CT-34WX50 widescreen HD-ready CRT Monster Power Center Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/ HDTV capable Officially PURPLE HD DVDs = 105 Blu-Ray Discs = 45 with 5 on the way Last edited by unotis; 07-23-2007 at 05:55 PM.

07-23-2007, 04:59 PM	#83
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,188	For those of you who responded to me . . thank you for staying in the spirit of my post - some "facts" mixed with humor. But I keep seeing the TWIN Format mentioned. It is only a 15 GB HD DVD layer. This will hold about 95 minutes - the new HD DVD of STREETS OF FIRE is an HD-15 . . . .not an HD-30 and it is 91 minutes long. So we are limited to the movies that are this length. Most I believe, are longer. There is nothing to indicate that the TWIN Format will go to 3 layers. We can only deal with what is . . . not what could be. The same for the pricing of the COMBO - "it will fall" you all said. When? Now we have both WB and Uni releasing in this format - driving up the price of an HD DVD. At a time we need to lower them. What happens if the "when" doesn't come about for another 12 to 16 months? That can't be too good for HD DVD. Cheap players . . . Expensive movies?

07-23-2007, 06:15 PM	#86
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,362	Currently there is a TWIN disc movie that has DL HD DVD and SL SD DVD all on the same side. There is also supposed to be more discs coming out with DL HD DVD and DL SD DVD on the same side. No need to worry which side to play or select anything on the disc menus. It will just play the HD DVD layers if it is put in a HD DVD player and it will just play the SD layers if put into a SD DVD player. It sounds idiot proof for the thecno challenged, but some of them NEVER cease to amaze me on how they can screw something up. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

07-23-2007, 08:41 PM	#90
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,362	I would take one Salma over a harem of Wynonas. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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