HD-DVD/DVD Combo - One More Sucky Thing About It

alra111 · 03-05-2007, 04:14 PM

I know that the question of the suitability (or lack thereof) of the HD-DVD/DVD Combo disc has come up before.

There is an argument against Combo discs that I don't recall being mentioned.

If the HD-DVD/DVD Combo disc (hereonafter referred to simply as the "Combo disc") is supposed to ease the transition from DVD to HD DVD, why is it that each and every Combo disc has been released in both Combo disc and traditional SD DVD format?

I feel that as an adopter of both HD DVD and Blu-ray, I have to pay the price for a feature that I will never use. I am paying the price for all the people who have DVD now and plan on getting an HD DVD player later on. I am paying the price for the parents who have only an SD DVD player in their kids room. I am paying the price for people who want to loan their movies to SD friends. I am an early adopter, yet I am being penalized for this--I am paying the price for those who have not adopted the new technology yet.

Some have argued that the additional cost is merely $4 or $5. Even assuming that each and every Combo disc were only $3 more than an HD DVD-only release, after I buy 100 Combo discs, I will have spent $300 on a feature that I have no use for.

Instead of issuing a movie on BOTH Combo disc and SD DVD, why don't the studios simply omit the SD DVD release and pass the savings on to the end user and issue a CHEAPER Combo disc (which everyone can use anyway), one priced on a par with a strictly HD DVD release?

Alternately, the studio can issue the Combo release, an SD release, and also an HD DVD-only release for those who have no use for the Combo disc.

One more plus for Blu-ray--when you buy a BD, you pay for the disc and just the disc, and are not asked to chip in for the cost of the transition to BD.

Two thumbs down for HD DVD Combo discs.

I WUV HD · 03-05-2007, 04:18 PM

You started a new thread for this? It's been discussed so many times around here.

Here's your answer, so we can close this redundant thread:

They don't currently have the capabilities needed to produce HD DVDs (combo or regular) in SD DVD numbers. There aren't enough HD lines available. That's the answer, according to the insiders over at AVS. If you don't like it, take it up with them.

Oh, and don't forget that Fox BDs cost as much as HD DVD combos (new releases - they cost more than the HD DVD combos for catalog titles) and the BDs don't offer an SD side.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by alra111

Instead of issuing a movie on BOTH Combo disc and SD DVD, why don't the studios simply omit the SD DVD release and pass the savings on to the end user and issue a CHEAPER Combo disc (which everyone can use anyway), one priced on a par with a strictly HD DVD release?

How could they possibly save money by producing more of the expensive discs (and none of the cheaper ones) and selling them for a cheaper price? SD DVDs are far cheaper to produce (especially in the large numbers we're talking about) than HD DVDs or HD DVD combos. I just don't understand your logic - how could they pass on savings to the customer when they're spending more money on their end?

haphilli · 03-05-2007, 04:38 PM

They are addressing the consumers needs for the here and now. Whether the consumer is planning on buying an HD DVD player and decides to buy the combo discs so that they can watch the SD version of the movie and so that in the future they can purchase hardware to utilize the HD side to the disc.

I purchased Superman Returns Special Two disc edition from Circuit City when it came out. CC is known for having very low retail price on their DVDs so I was surprised when they charged me $25 for it, I also purchased Pirates of the Carribean 2 for the same price. I purchased them both on their street date week too. If I would hvae done my research when I was first interested in HD DVD then I wish I would have just forked over $10 and bought the Combo Disc. To be honest it is a good deal to the potential buyer of an HD DVD player, and I believe that is what HD DVD is targeting. The potential purchasers of their product. Right now us supporters are too low to really sway the market one way or another but the overwhelming SD population is what really matters.

Yeah I don't see how making the production of three different discs( a combo, sd, and hd disc) is going to be very cost effective.

**bruceames** · 03-05-2007, 06:53 PM

I wish they would release combo only on the new releases. That would be cool. Just charge $5.00 more SRP than if the disc were an SD DVD. I expect it to happen sooner or later.

alra111 · 03-08-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I WUV HD

You started a new thread for this? It's been discussed so many times around here.

Here's your answer, so we can close this redundant thread:

They don't currently have the capabilities needed to produce HD DVDs (combo or regular) in SD DVD numbers. There aren't enough HD lines available. That's the answer, according to the insiders over at AVS. If you don't like it, take it up with them.

Oh, and don't forget that Fox BDs cost as much as HD DVD combos (new releases - they cost more than the HD DVD combos for catalog titles) and the BDs don't offer an SD side.

Edit:
How could they possibly save money by producing more of the expensive discs (and none of the cheaper ones) and selling them for a cheaper price? SD DVDs are far cheaper to produce (especially in the large numbers we're talking about) than HD DVDs or HD DVD combos. I just don't understand your logic - how could they pass on savings to the customer when they're spending more money on their end?

I know there is no way right now that we could have as many different titles on HD DVD (or Blu-ray, for that matter) as we do on SD DVD.

What I don't understand is why Blu-ray studios have the capability to make a BD-only release for those with Blu-ray machines and allow the SD DVD version of the title to be released separately, and why HD DVD studios cannot afford to do the same thing.

After all, one of the main pros of the HD DVD disc is that it is so much cheaper to produce than BD, isn't it?

I guess HD DVD needs every advantage it can possibly afford to get--even if it means screwing over some HD DVD customers by forcing them to pay for a SD DVD side that they have absolutely no use for.

Some may argue that Sony employed a similar tactic by forcing Blu-ray on PlayStation fans; however, I like the fact that at least with Sony, you payed a one-time premium and you were done with it. If you bought a PS3 and you felt Blu-ray was forced upon you, eventually when you got a high-def set you got something you could use. With HD DVD's Combo Disc tactic, there are many of us that are constantly paying a premium for something we will never have any use for--the SD DVD side of the disc. I guess it's good for their bottom line--putting more money in their pockets.

**bruceames** · 03-08-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alra111

.What I don't understand is why Blu-ray studios have the capability to make a BD-only release for those with Blu-ray machines and allow the SD DVD version of the title to be released separately, and why HD DVD studios cannot afford to do the same thing..

What are you saying here? That Blu-ray studios have the capability of NOT making a combo? There is only one HD DVD studio that is making combos right now: Universal. It can afford to do things any way they want to. One thing for certain, Universal is looking at the whole market and not just the tiny 0.5% that have HD players. Combos are to appeal to anyone, whether they have an HD player or not, and believe or not, some people like the idea of buying a combo and paying a few bucks more, even if they don't have an HDTV or player. It's called future-proofing. Also, combo appeal to many of us who do have HD, just to be able to have portability (the SD side can be burned in order to protect the disc if necessary).

But from the looks of things Universal may just do combos on new releases so they will be an extra four bucks. Whoop-te-doo.

Quote:

After all, one of the main pros of the HD DVD disc is that it is so much cheaper to produce than BD, isn't it?.

Yes.

Quote:

I guess HD DVD needs every advantage it can possibly afford to get--even if it means screwing over some HD DVD customers by forcing them to pay for a SD DVD side that they have absolutely no use for..

Nobody is forcing you to buy a combo. JHC, how much is Fox charging for their movies, ever think about that?

Quote:

Some may argue that Sony employed a similar tactic by forcing Blu-ray on PlayStation fans; however, I like the fact that at least with Sony, you payed a one-time premium and you were done with it. If you bought a PS3 and you felt Blu-ray was forced upon you, eventually when you got a high-def set you got something you could use. With HD DVD's Combo Disc tactic, there are many of us that are constantly paying a premium for something we will never have any use for--the SD DVD side of the disc. I guess it's good for their bottom line--putting more money in their pockets.

Many PS3 gamers will never, ever use the console to play Blu-ray movies because they bought it just to play games. That's $200 extra they spent for nothing. But they think it's worth it anyway so they buy it. Same goes for you and all the combo haters. When it all comes down to it, either it's worth the asking price for what you want it for or it isn't. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, right?

haphilli · 03-08-2007, 06:59 PM

It is like I said we are not in the focus of HD DVD's intentions right now, they are doing their best to persuade those SD users to their side of the fence. We still can watch the movies and everything it is just that the prices are a little high right now. I imagine that in a year it will be done.

DSNY FN · 03-08-2007, 09:04 PM

We prefer the HD DVD combo disks as we have 2 A2's and a multitude of SD DVDplayers including the kids portable ones and the one in the van so they make perfect sence to us for sure.

**PFC5** · 03-08-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alra111

Some may argue that Sony employed a similar tactic by forcing Blu-ray on PlayStation fans; however, I like the fact that at least with Sony, you payed a one-time premium and you were done with it. If you bought a PS3 and you felt Blu-ray was forced upon you, eventually when you got a high-def set you got something you could use. With HD DVD's Combo Disc tactic, there are many of us that are constantly paying a premium for something we will never have any use for--the SD DVD side of the disc. I guess it's good for their bottom line--putting more money in their pockets.

If you owned more than one TV or had SDTVs and/or a mobile player in a car/minivan then you would see the value in combo discs. Just becuase you do not see the value doesn't mean it does not exist for others.

I would say that EVERY Fox title on BD you ARE paying a "premium" for them so you should stop buying them also. They are charging as much or more than the combos and you do not even get the flexibility to play them on a SD DVD player with a SDTV in another room for that price.

rockaway1836 · 03-08-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

If you owned more than one TV or had SDTVs and/or a mobile player in a car/minivan then you would see the value in combo discs. Just becuase you do not see the value doesn't mean it does not exist for others.

I would say that EVERY Fox title on BD you ARE paying a "premium" for them so you should stop buying them also. They are charging as much or more than the combos and you do not even get the flexibility to play them on a SD DVD player with a SDTV in another room for that price.

PFC5 You, sir should work for a marketing company! (if you don't already) I must admit that I sit here reading the way you spin things, with complete admiration.. Sir, I would take my hat off to you! (if I wore one)

**PFC5** · 03-08-2007, 11:20 PM

I wouldn't call it spin but fact. Spin would be twisting fact or just plain making shat up which I did not do.

I am an accountant so I look at costs realistically. Perhaps TOO realistically, but none the less, it is completely true about the Fox titles costing as much or more than the combos without any added ability to play them in a SD DVD system to boot.

I find that most people who really hate to pay more for combos are usually people who only watch movies on one system. Many people have families and multiple systems that couldn't even be called "systems" since they are SD DVD players played on just SDTVs using the TV's speakers in a bedroom or even a portable sysyem in the car on trips.

Do I wish there were no premium for the combos? Hell yeah, and I am sure no one WANTS to pay more, but it is what it is right now and until the studios decide to remove the premium we can complain all we want but it will not change anything.

Ales Hemsky · 08-26-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I wouldn't call it spin but fact. Spin would be twisting fact or just plain making shat up which I did not do.

I am an accountant so I look at costs realistically. Perhaps TOO realistically, but none the less, it is completely true about the Fox titles costing as much or more than the combos without any added ability to play them in a SD DVD system to boot.

I find that most people who really hate to pay more for combos are usually people who only watch movies on one system. Many people have families and multiple systems that couldn't even be called "systems" since they are SD DVD players played on just SDTVs using the TV's speakers in a bedroom or even a portable sysyem in the car on trips.

Do I wish there were no premium for the combos? Hell yeah, and I am sure no one WANTS to pay more, but it is what it is right now and until the studios decide to remove the premium we can complain all we want but it will not change anything.

Well said. If only BD fans would understand...ah well.

Super XP · 08-26-2007, 01:01 PM

I hope HD DVD combo discs completely replace SD DVD, then you will see HD DVD revenues in the 10:1 vs. the Blu-Boys.

**PFC5** · 08-26-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

I hope HD DVD combo discs completely replace SD DVD, then you will see HD DVD revenues in the 10:1 vs. the Blu-Boys.

It would be more like 10,000:1 if all SD DVDs were combo discs.

03-05-2007, 04:14 PM	#1
alra111 Hi-Def Maniac Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Miami, FL Age: 36 Posts: 360	HD-DVD/DVD Combo - One More Sucky Thing About It I know that the question of the suitability (or lack thereof) of the HD-DVD/DVD Combo disc has come up before. There is an argument against Combo discs that I don't recall being mentioned. If the HD-DVD/DVD Combo disc (hereonafter referred to simply as the "Combo disc") is supposed to ease the transition from DVD to HD DVD, why is it that each and every Combo disc has been released in both Combo disc and traditional SD DVD format? I feel that as an adopter of both HD DVD and Blu-ray, I have to pay the price for a feature that I will never use. I am paying the price for all the people who have DVD now and plan on getting an HD DVD player later on. I am paying the price for the parents who have only an SD DVD player in their kids room. I am paying the price for people who want to loan their movies to SD friends. I am an early adopter, yet I am being penalized for this--I am paying the price for those who have not adopted the new technology yet. Some have argued that the additional cost is merely $4 or $5. Even assuming that each and every Combo disc were only $3 more than an HD DVD-only release, after I buy 100 Combo discs, I will have spent $300 on a feature that I have no use for. Instead of issuing a movie on BOTH Combo disc and SD DVD, why don't the studios simply omit the SD DVD release and pass the savings on to the end user and issue a CHEAPER Combo disc (which everyone can use anyway), one priced on a par with a strictly HD DVD release? Alternately, the studio can issue the Combo release, an SD release, and also an HD DVD-only release for those who have no use for the Combo disc. One more plus for Blu-ray--when you buy a BD, you pay for the disc and just the disc, and are not asked to chip in for the cost of the transition to BD. Two thumbs down for HD DVD Combo discs. __________________ Equipment: 1: Wii * PLAYSTATION®3 (60GB) (OS v1.11) * PLAYSTATION®2 (v12; "Slim") * Xbox 360 Elite * Sony STR-DG1000 receiver * Sony KDL-40XBR2 LCD TV * Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD PlayerToshiba HD-A30 HD-DVD Player 2: Panasonic DVD Home Theater system SA-HT670 Westinghouse LVM-42w2 * Xbox 360 computers/other: Apple Mac Mini (PowerPC; OS X v10.4.x; 256MB RAM) * Apple iMac 20" (Intel, 2.33GHz, 1GB RAM, OS X v10.5.2) * Compaq Laptop (Windows XP) Full List w/pictures: Click here.

03-05-2007, 04:38 PM	#3
haphilli Buckeye Guy Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Age: 23 Posts: 76	They are addressing the consumers needs for the here and now. Whether the consumer is planning on buying an HD DVD player and decides to buy the combo discs so that they can watch the SD version of the movie and so that in the future they can purchase hardware to utilize the HD side to the disc. I purchased Superman Returns Special Two disc edition from Circuit City when it came out. CC is known for having very low retail price on their DVDs so I was surprised when they charged me $25 for it, I also purchased Pirates of the Carribean 2 for the same price. I purchased them both on their street date week too. If I would hvae done my research when I was first interested in HD DVD then I wish I would have just forked over $10 and bought the Combo Disc. To be honest it is a good deal to the potential buyer of an HD DVD player, and I believe that is what HD DVD is targeting. The potential purchasers of their product. Right now us supporters are too low to really sway the market one way or another but the overwhelming SD population is what really matters. Yeah I don't see how making the production of three different discs( a combo, sd, and hd disc) is going to be very cost effective. __________________ HD DVDs: 23 Blu Ray: 0 Last edited by haphilli; 03-05-2007 at 04:42 PM.

03-08-2007, 06:59 PM	#7
haphilli Buckeye Guy Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Age: 23 Posts: 76	It is like I said we are not in the focus of HD DVD's intentions right now, they are doing their best to persuade those SD users to their side of the fence. We still can watch the movies and everything it is just that the prices are a little high right now. I imagine that in a year it will be done. __________________ HD DVDs: 23 Blu Ray: 0

03-08-2007, 09:04 PM	#8
DSNY FN High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Ont Canada Age: 40 Posts: 2,273	We prefer the HD DVD combo disks as we have 2 A2's and a multitude of SD DVDplayers including the kids portable ones and the one in the van so they make perfect sence to us for sure. __________________ HD IS THE ONLY WAY Bedroom setup Viewsonic N2752w Xpressvue 6100 Toshiba HD A2 Harmony 520 Livingroom setup Samsung HL-S5687WX Toshiba HD-DVD XA2 Xpressvue HD PVR Denon 3801 PSB Full surround Harmony 880 Nintendo GC Nintendo Wii (this console rocks) Mario Kart Wii friend code 4768-8283-5991

03-08-2007, 11:20 PM	#11
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,385	I wouldn't call it spin but fact. Spin would be twisting fact or just plain making shat up which I did not do. I am an accountant so I look at costs realistically. Perhaps TOO realistically, but none the less, it is completely true about the Fox titles costing as much or more than the combos without any added ability to play them in a SD DVD system to boot. I find that most people who really hate to pay more for combos are usually people who only watch movies on one system. Many people have families and multiple systems that couldn't even be called "systems" since they are SD DVD players played on just SDTVs using the TV's speakers in a bedroom or even a portable sysyem in the car on trips. Do I wish there were no premium for the combos? Hell yeah, and I am sure no one WANTS to pay more, but it is what it is right now and until the studios decide to remove the premium we can complain all we want but it will not change anything. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

03-05-2007, 06:53 PM	#4
bruceames Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Rafael, CA Posts: 10,170	I wish they would release combo only on the new releases. That would be cool. Just charge $5.00 more SRP than if the disc were an SD DVD. I expect it to happen sooner or later.

08-26-2007, 01:01 PM	#13
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	I hope HD DVD combo discs completely replace SD DVD, then you will see HD DVD revenues in the 10:1 vs. the Blu-Boys. __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10