Anyone else hearing Blu Ray is worse than HD DVD?

**PFC5** · 06-26-2006, 08:32 PM

That is good to know about a HDMI handshake fix coming sometime.

This format war is forcing these companies to "care" more about the customer thanks to the internet & these forums too!

I always try to find the silver lining in things.

BobY · 06-26-2006, 08:33 PM

OMG! You're kidding me!

Are you saying that rather than take the extra time they got from postponing the introduction of the BDP-1000 to re-design the unit to take the 1080p on the disc and transmit it as 1080p, Samsung *added* a Faroudja de-interlacer to take the original 1080i output (which they interlaced from the 1080p on the disc) and de-interlace it to 1080p?!? What a senseless solution!

Maybe that's the source of the digital artifacts. Maybe Toshiba was telling the truth when they said HD DVD was 1080i at introduction because HDMI didn't properly support 1080p at the time.

**PFC5** · 06-26-2006, 08:46 PM

I think Samsung just tried to follow the BD company line that 1080p was "TRUE HD" and 1080i wasn't and tried to have 1080p in the spec.

It really was a stupid thing to do, but most "good" reviewers have not noticed any real difference using component outputs which (should) exclude the Faroudja add-on since it only outputs 1080i.

One reviewer named Bill Hunt swears that component output solves the problems. The problem IS he is a BD lackey who goes to great lengths to help the BD format's cause, and slams HD-DVD whenever possible. He went to Pioneer's site with his Samsung and low and behold, it is not the Samsung that is the problem, it is his Panasonic projector. So why doesn't the current displays at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc that demo the Samsung look good?

BobY · 06-26-2006, 09:01 PM

OK, but please clarify:

Are you saying that Samsung just took their existing 1080i output and slapped a Faroudja de-interlacer on it to make it 1080p even though the disc content is 1080p to start with?!?. Gee, anybody (i.e. Toshiba) could do that if they didn't care about PQ.

I'm beginning to believe the scuttlebutt that the HDMI interface chips at the time these players were designed did not support 1080p...

prellinger · 06-26-2006, 09:07 PM

i have both BD and HDDVD using HDMI and the BD sucks,
last night watching a non-hd disk the closed caption turned on half way thru the movie.
the next day went to BB and the guy say's you just have to stop the movie and turn it off.

well if happened in the next movie also

**PFC5** · 06-27-2006, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

OK, but please clarify:

Are you saying that Samsung just took their existing 1080i output and slapped a Faroudja de-interlacer on it to make it 1080p even though the disc content is 1080p to start with?!?. Gee, anybody (i.e. Toshiba) could do that if they didn't care about PQ.

I'm beginning to believe the scuttlebutt that the HDMI interface chips at the time these players were designed did not support 1080p...

The Samsung uses the exact same HDMI chip that the Toshiba uses and it has basically been confirmed over at AVS that it cannot do 1080p, so if anyone was waiting for a 1080p firmware update for their Toshiba stop waiting.

I will take the PQ of 1080i output from the Toshiba ANY DAY over the PQ output of 1080p or 1080i or 720p of the Samsung. I couldn't believe the Samsung PQ with that demo disc when I finally saw it Sunday. And I heard that the demo was better than the movies too.

stevew@us.net · 06-29-2006, 11:30 PM

yes, BD discs do not look great. About what I see from D*. The demo looked better than what I saw today with Ultraviolet movie playing on a 50" Samsung HLS 1080p RPTV. Very soft, almost plastic looking faces. I don't know how much better HD-DVD is yet since my player won't show up until tomorrow and my Ruby isn't due for at least another week. I'll have to settle for watching Serenity on my HT1000 tomorrow. I'm sure the PJ will look as a it's ever looked with real 1920x1080 input.

I also like the fact that people are having great success burning HDV and other HD material onto SL and DL DVDs and the Toshiba. I have the Sony camcorder and looking forward to dumping my tapes to disc. What a great added benefit of the HD-A1 on top of reportedly being a great SD DVD upconversion player and CD transport. At more than half off the Samsung too. How sweet is that.

Super XP · 08-19-2007, 02:09 PM

I am a HD DVD supporter, and the films on HD DVD all look amazing, I do believe you guys need some sort of Blu-Ray player firmware update.

I mean Blu-Ray should be on par with HD DVD in terms of Video & Audio Quality. The earlier (fist releases ever) Blu-Ray releases where not so great though. Actually they sucked.

fmw · 08-19-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidefman30

Ok I have read a few posts now saying that Blu Ray is not as good as HD DVD in image quality. Can anyone verify that? Frankly I am very surprised as much money and quality as I have seen in Sony technologies. I have heard that HD DVD movies generally surpass broadcast satellite in image quality. Which is good news and makes it worth while. However now, with news of Blu Ray being below par with HD DVD, yet players are more expensive make me start to doubt it's future. Even though I had once thouth that PS3 would make Blu Ray outlast HD DVD. I was actually holding out for a PS3 and not buying an HD DVD player, as I thought it would be the better looking format, plus a next gen game console. Perhpas I should consider the Toshiba HD DVD now.

Those who say this either don't own both formats or have significantly better eyes than I do. I own both formats. The picture quality is the same for both.

Super XP · 08-19-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmw

Those who say this either don't own both formats or have significantly better eyes than I do. I own both formats. The picture quality is the same for both.

I believe older Blu-Ray movies suffered from bad video quality.

GLOW · 08-19-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

I am a HD DVD supporter, and the films on HD DVD all look amazing, I do believe you guys need some sort of Blu-Ray player firmware update.

I mean Blu-Ray should be on par with HD DVD in terms of Video & Audio Quality. The earlier (fist releases ever) Blu-Ray releases where not so great though. Actually they sucked.

Dude, why did you bump a thread that's over a year old?

Super XP · 08-19-2007, 09:14 PM

When I noticed the date it was too late.

macosxguy · 08-20-2007, 08:09 AM

If the discs are encoded the same way the quality is identical. That is the simplest way to explain it. So for example 300 was just released on both formats and the picture is identical. Same encoding (VC-1). There was a problem with encoding most of the early releases of the blu-ray discs that made them look less crisp, but 95% of releases this month are the new encoding and the quality is identical. So more than half blu-rays library is the new codec and you can't tell a difference.

**PFC5** · 08-20-2007, 12:04 PM

This thread is over 1 year old and was posted to by mistake. Back then BD movies DID look pretty bad compared to HD DVD, but they are basically equal now. It is a moot point as far as PQ is concenred at this point so lets just let the thread die it's natural death.

Super XP · 08-20-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

This thread is over 1 year old and was posted to by mistake. Back then BD movies DID look pretty bad compared to HD DVD, but they are basically equal now. It is a moot point as far as PQ is concenred at this point so lets just let the thread die it's natural death.

I agree. Though I find it interesting that the movie '300' on a HD DVD had a lot more to offer in terms of extra's & interactivity were as the Blu-Ray version did not even though the Blu-Ray disc is larger in capacity.

06-26-2006, 08:32 PM	#16
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,349	That is good to know about a HDMI handshake fix coming sometime. This format war is forcing these companies to "care" more about the customer thanks to the internet & these forums too! I always try to find the silver lining in things. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

06-26-2006, 08:46 PM	#18
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,349	I think Samsung just tried to follow the BD company line that 1080p was "TRUE HD" and 1080i wasn't and tried to have 1080p in the spec. It really was a stupid thing to do, but most "good" reviewers have not noticed any real difference using component outputs which (should) exclude the Faroudja add-on since it only outputs 1080i. One reviewer named Bill Hunt swears that component output solves the problems. The problem IS he is a BD lackey who goes to great lengths to help the BD format's cause, and slams HD-DVD whenever possible. He went to Pioneer's site with his Samsung and low and behold, it is not the Samsung that is the problem, it is his Panasonic projector. So why doesn't the current displays at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc that demo the Samsung look good? __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

06-29-2006, 11:30 PM	#22
stevew@us.net My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 8	yes, BD discs do not look great. About what I see from D. The demo looked better than what I saw today with Ultraviolet movie playing on a 50" Samsung HLS 1080p RPTV. Very soft, almost plastic looking faces. I don't know how much better HD-DVD is yet since my player won't show up until tomorrow and my Ruby isn't due for at least another week. I'll have to settle for watching Serenity on my HT1000 tomorrow. I'm sure the PJ will look as a it's ever looked with real 1920x1080 input. I also like the fact that people are having great success burning HDV and other HD material onto SL and DL DVDs and the Toshiba. I have the Sony camcorder and looking forward to dumping my tapes to disc. What a great added benefit of the HD-A1 on top of reportedly being a great SD DVD upconversion player and CD transport. At more than half off the Samsung too. How sweet is that. Last edited by stevew@us.net; 06-29-2006 at 11:33 PM.*

08-19-2007, 02:09 PM	#23
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	I am a HD DVD supporter, and the films on HD DVD all look amazing, I do believe you guys need some sort of Blu-Ray player firmware update. I mean Blu-Ray should be on par with HD DVD in terms of Video & Audio Quality. The earlier (fist releases ever) Blu-Ray releases where not so great though. Actually they sucked. __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10

08-19-2007, 09:14 PM	#27
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	When I noticed the date it was too late. __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10

06-26-2006, 08:33 PM	#17
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	OMG! You're kidding me! Are you saying that rather than take the extra time they got from postponing the introduction of the BDP-1000 to re-design the unit to take the 1080p on the disc and transmit it as 1080p, Samsung added a Faroudja de-interlacer to take the original 1080i output (which they interlaced from the 1080p on the disc) and de-interlace it to 1080p?!? What a senseless solution! Maybe that's the source of the digital artifacts. Maybe Toshiba was telling the truth when they said HD DVD was 1080i at introduction because HDMI didn't properly support 1080p at the time.

06-26-2006, 09:01 PM	#19
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	OK, but please clarify: Are you saying that Samsung just took their existing 1080i output and slapped a Faroudja de-interlacer on it to make it 1080p even though the disc content is 1080p to start with?!?. Gee, anybody (i.e. Toshiba) could do that if they didn't care about PQ. I'm beginning to believe the scuttlebutt that the HDMI interface chips at the time these players were designed did not support 1080p...

06-26-2006, 09:07 PM	#20
prellinger How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 15	i have both BD and HDDVD using HDMI and the BD sucks, last night watching a non-hd disk the closed caption turned on half way thru the movie. the next day went to BB and the guy say's you just have to stop the movie and turn it off. well if happened in the next movie also

08-20-2007, 08:09 AM	#28
macosxguy Dual Format Supporter. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK, Surrey Age: 31 Posts: 45	Yes and no. If the discs are encoded the same way the quality is identical. That is the simplest way to explain it. So for example 300 was just released on both formats and the picture is identical. Same encoding (VC-1). There was a problem with encoding most of the early releases of the blu-ray discs that made them look less crisp, but 95% of releases this month are the new encoding and the quality is identical. So more than half blu-rays library is the new codec and you can't tell a difference. __________________ Panasonic Plasma TH-42PX60B, Sony PS3 60Gb- US, 2 Xbox 360 Elite with HD DVD BD- 62, HD DVD- 68 2 Apple TV's /Sky HD+ Panasonic LCD TX-32LXD60A, Panasonic Home Theatre SS SC-HT855, Samsung BD-P1000, Mac Pro with 8-core Intel Xeon @ 3ghz each, ATI Radeon X1900 (512 Video), 2.5 Terabytes HDD, 5gigs memory, Panasonic Internal Blu-ray Burner, wireless / Vista Ultimate, 23" Apple Cinema Display 15" Glossy Apple MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.33Ghz w/ Vista Ultimate

08-20-2007, 12:04 PM	#29
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,349	This thread is over 1 year old and was posted to by mistake. Back then BD movies DID look pretty bad compared to HD DVD, but they are basically equal now. It is a moot point as far as PQ is concenred at this point so lets just let the thread die it's natural death. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier