High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource

Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition DVDs & Movies > High Definition Media
Rules HDTV Forum Gallery LINK TO US! RSS - High Def Forum AddThis Feed Button AddThis Social Bookmark Button Groups

High Definition Media A place to discuss BD and UHD Content from physical and digital media RSS - High Definition Media

Studios, Dolby Reaffirm Commitment to Ultra HD Blu-ray

Reply
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #16
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
And what if the BDA decides to make the following change:

The BDA announces that there will be a new line of UHD BDs called; "Premier Ultra High Definition Blu Ray." These new discs will be mastered in the new Dynamic HDR format and will require both the player and the TV to have HDMI 2.1 along with the new HDMI 2.1 cables.

If you think it can't happen . . . think about BDs and 3D BDs

Bruce you fail to realize how many changes are coming and the last thing the BDA wants is to be left behind with old technology. They want to be the best way to deliver HDR UHD content. That's why they didn't use DCI-P3 as the mandatory color depth. They saw the future and the future is BT2020. But they didn't want to force their members to spend extra money and make Dolby Vision mandatory. So they went on the cheap for HDR making HDR 10 mandatory instead.

Bruce, do you realize that up until 2015 ALL . . . I repeat ALL home video has been 8 bit. 60 years! And in 1 year we went from 8 bit to 10 bit. And in another two years we are going to go from 10 bit to 12 bit. That is one aspect of how quickly things are changing.
I'm not interested in remote "what if" possibilities. HDR10 is a base layer that any dynamic HDR can ride on top of and it will work even with HDMI 2.1. If you can show me a scenario where it would be "in the way" and thus they would have good reason to get rid of it, then I'm all ears.

But as of now the only HDR format that is mandatory (or "baked in") is HDR10. The one you say has no future. That doesn't make sense.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 10:42 AM   #17
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
I'm not interested in remote "what if" possibilities. HDR10 is a base layer that any dynamic HDR can ride on top of and it will work even with HDMI 2.1. If you can show me a scenario where it would be "in the way" and thus they would have good reason to get rid of it, then I'm all ears.

But as of now the only HDR format that is mandatory (or "baked in") is HDR10. The one you say has no future. That doesn't make sense.
When the BDA set the specs for 4K UHD BD Dynamic HDR did not exist. We now know that it does and it requires 48 Gbps speed which is supported in HDMI 2.1 which is a more advanced version than 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0.

HDR 10 is HDR at the bare minimum. So yes it will probably always be there. Just like it is - no upgrades, no expansion. Then again cheap 4K TVs need a cheap HDR format and HDR 10 fits that bill nicely.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 05:37 PM   #18
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Dolby Vision already has a futureproof set of specs: 12 bit WCG and a max brightness level of 10,000 nits. Then there is the new form of HDR coming called Dynamic HDR that needs HDMI 2.1. Not a whole lot has been published about it yet. I suspect we will hear a lot more about it in the 3rd quarter of 2017 as TV set manufacturers begin to embrace HDMI 2.1.
Not sure if you're aware, but HDR10 also has a max brightness level of 10,000 nits.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 09:19 PM   #19
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default






https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...hite-paper.pdf
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 09:44 PM   #20
A couch and an HDTV to go please.
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
. And I really believe they have learned their lesson
Hollywood never learns its lesson. That's why we have another Star Wars movie and celebrities jabbering about politics.
ewd76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 10:01 PM   #21
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I was referring to HDR10, not Dolby Vision. We've already established that DV is 12 bit and HDR10 10 bit.

Again, HDR10 can do 10000 nits. Are you aware of this?
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 10:09 PM   #22
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewd76 View Post
Hollywood never learns its lesson. That's why we have another Star Wars movie and celebrities jabbering about politics.
Maybe you didn't understand what I was referring to so let me clear that up for you.

When "3D Mania" hit theaters (with Avatar) all of a sudden Hollywood studios were clamoring to produce 3D movies. The best looking 3D comes from using two cameras mounted in a special rig to capture the left and right eye images. This is expensive and requires a lot of experience shooting with this rig.

Warner bros figured out how to create 3D images from a single camera in post production and they used this on their Clash Of The Titans. It was cheap, it was fast and it looked awful. WB took a lot of heat for this because theaters were charging more for 3D movies and Hollywood was collecting a higher per ticket share.

Right now High Dynamic Range is "IT" when it comes to 4K UHD. And there is a company who claims they can convert Standard Dynamic Range to High Dynamic Range. I am sure it is very tempting for the studios to use this when creating masters for their 4K UHD content. Once again, it cheap, it's quick and it doesn't look that good.

The proper way to create an HDR master from a movie is to go back to either the camera negative (film) or the RAW data (digital). Cameras capture more F-Stops of Dynamic Range than can be used in SD and HD home video.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 10:11 PM   #23
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
I was referring to HDR10, not Dolby Vision. We've already established that DV is 12 bit and HDR10 10 bit.

Again, HDR10 can do 10000 nits. Are you aware of this?
See the chart Bruce. It explains the difference right there. Brightness Level doesn't stand on it's own. It interacts with the color space.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2017, 10:58 PM   #24
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
See the chart Bruce. It explains the difference right there. Brightness Level doesn't stand on it's own. It interacts with the color space.
See my question again Lee. Are you aware that HDR10 does 10,000 nits? A simple yes or no will suffice.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 08:26 AM   #25
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
See my question again Lee. Are you aware that HDR10 does 10,000 nits? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Actually no - thank you for bringing that to my attention.

The future of HDR will be Dolby Vision and probably Hybrid Log Gamma. HDR 10 will be regulated to 4K UHD BD as a niche HDR format.
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2017, 03:43 PM   #26
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Actually no - thank you for bringing that to my attention.

The future of HDR will be Dolby Vision and probably Hybrid Log Gamma. HDR 10 will be regulated to 4K UHD BD as a niche HDR format.
HLG will only prevail for broadcast or any other medium where bandwidth is at a premium, as HDR10 > HLG.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 12:43 AM   #27
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
HLG will only prevail for broadcast or any other medium where bandwidth is at a premium, as HDR10 > HLG.
Broadcast and Streaming - those will be the dominant delivery systems for 4K UHD + HDR
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 08:17 AM   #28
Super Moderator
 
bruceames's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 16,991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Broadcast and Streaming - those will be the dominant delivery systems for 4K UHD + HDR
Interesting to see the quality of cable/sat fall further behind streaming because of bandwidth limitations. Broadcast is stuck with HLG, while streaming can have DV. That's only going to exacerbate the migration from cable/sat to streaming that we see now. Where I live there is a big difference in picture quality between Netflix and Comcast.
bruceames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 12:17 PM   #29
I bleed for HD
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 13,792
Default

I vastly prefer disc to streaming so as long as HDR10 remains on 4K Blu-ray I am fine.
Streaming HD/UHD to me from many sites seems to often incur microstutter which annoys the hell out of me (my d/l is 24Mbps so plenty of bandwidth on my end).
__________________
HT- Panasonic TH-50PZ800U 1080p plasma, Panasonic PT-AX200u LCD projector, Elite Vmax Electric 100' screen, Pioneer Elite SC-71 AVR, Paradigm Titan Monitor v5 fronts, Paradigm CC-190 v6 center, Paradigm Atom Monitors v5 surrounds(x4), HSU research VTF-2 sub, Bowers + Wilkins ASW610 sub, HTPC/Gaming rig, Sony BDP-S550 blu-ray, Uverse HD-DVR, Roku 2

Bedroom: RCA 40: LED, BD-player
Den - Vizio 20"1080p LCD + RCA BDP


Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Albert Einstein
jkkyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2017, 01:06 PM   #30
Muscle Cars Forever!
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 41,908
Default

Some states on Hybrid Log Gamma HDR:

Quote:
HLG does not need to use metadata since it is compatible with both SDR displays and HDR displays. HLG can be used with displays of different brightness in a wide range of viewing environments.

The dynamic range that can be perceived by the human eye in a single image is around 14 stops. SDR video with a 2.4 gamma curve and a bit depth of 8-bits per sample has a dynamic range of about 6 stops. Professional SDR video with a bit depth of 10-bits per sample has a dynamic range of about 10 stops. When HLG is displayed on a 2,000 cd/m2 display with a bit depth of 10-bits per sample it has a dynamic range of 200,000:1 or 17.6 stops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Log-Gamma
Lee Stewart is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Go Back   High Def Forum - Your High Definition Community & High Definition Resource > High Definition DVDs & Movies > High Definition Media
AddThis Social Bookmark Button
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2004 - 2008, High Def Forum