The movie Red on Blu-ray question

ChiefJoseph · 01-26-2011, 10:37 PM

Just rented RED blu ray from my nearest redbox and upon watching it, the only english track was simple dolby digital. Is this only the redbox edition?

**bruceames** · 01-27-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefJoseph

Just rented RED blu ray from my nearest redbox and upon watching it, the only english track was simple dolby digital. Is this only the redbox edition?

According to Cinema Squid, Red has a 5.1 master audio track. I can't imagine that Redbox has a different version....

http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/m...ist?search=red

dsskid · 01-28-2011, 05:39 AM

They offered a few BD versions of Red. The "Special Edition" packaging overs the HD MA track. The barebones version (second one listed in your link Bruce) offers only 5.1, which I guess Redbox is distributing. I believe Target is selling the barebones version for $13.

**ImRizzo** · 01-28-2011, 06:02 AM

I have been unable to confirm differences in the "Regular" edition of RED and the Special edition,and the "Best-Buy" edition ?? other than the accompaniment of a comic and add. footage ?

ChiefJoseph · 01-29-2011, 01:32 AM

Ya, I found the "movie only" edition only had dolby digital 5.1 as well as lower bit rate video. Next time I'll check before renting. If DD is all I get for blu ray then I'll just rent the dvd and the industry can go to blazes.

**bruceames** · 01-29-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefJoseph

Ya, I found the "movie only" edition only had dolby digital 5.1 as well as lower bit rate video. Next time I'll check before renting. If DD is all I get for blu ray then I'll just rent the dvd and the industry can go to blazes.

That's very odd. I never heard of any multiple SKU release Blu-ray movie having different versions of primary audio, much less PQ.

I find that shocking and hard to believe.

dsskid · 01-29-2011, 02:31 PM

The Best Buy BD / DVD combo and the Special Edition BD both have DTS HD MA audio. The barebone BD edition only had 5.1.

**bruceames** · 01-29-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsskid

The Best Buy BD / DVD combo and the Special Edition BD both have DTS HD MA audio. The barebone BD edition only ha,d 5.1.

Wow. I can't believe that was deliberate. There is absolutely no reason to short change the audio track just because it's a "bares bones" release.

Edit: I was reading a little elsewhere on this and apparently it was done in order to fit it on a BD25 (while the other version is a BD50). Maybe they lowered the video bitrate as well.

In any case, it is shocking to say the least and now we all have to keep our eyes open for being subjected to more than one encode on multiple SKU movie releases, so that we don't buy one that is inferior because we wanted to save a couple of bucks.

PFC5 · 01-30-2011, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

Wow. I can't believe that was deliberate. There is absolutely no reason to short change the audio track just because it's a "bares bones" release.

Edit: I was reading a little elsewhere on this and apparently it was done in order to fit it on a BD25 (while the other version is a BD50). Maybe they lowered the video bitrate as well.

In any case, it is shocking to say the least and now we all have to keep our eyes open for being subjected to more than one encode on multiple SKU movie releases, so that we don't buy one that is inferior because we wanted to save a couple of bucks.

I agree! I have been assuming it is a given that we would get a lossless audio track on everything at this point. The problem is Amazon often times just lists the same audio for BDs as they do for SD DVDs and do not list the audio on that particula BD title. I wish they would though as this could get harder to buy from them once I start getting burned by this new development.

I often buy the bare bones editions since I am not big on all those "making of ____" extras and listening to every actor/director/filmographer, etc etc all say what a joy it was working with everyone on the film. Blah blah! They all say mostly the same things only talking about the people they are working with on this particular film and will say the same about everyone on the next film as well as the one after that.

Chris Gerhard · 01-30-2011, 05:09 AM

I haven't heard of this being done before. It is obviously a cost cutting measure to make the barebones version as inexpensive as possible. It should be clearly stated on the case when this is done although just correctly listing audio codecs on the back cover meets the buyer beware caviat. The lower video bitrate needed to fit the encode on a 25GB disc if true is more troubling than using lossy audio in my opinion.

Could this be the shortage of BD50 discs I often read about here a few years ago instead of cost cutting? I would certainly rent this version rather than the DVD regardless.

Chris Gerhard · 01-30-2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefJoseph

Ya, I found the "movie only" edition only had dolby digital 5.1 as well as lower bit rate video. Next time I'll check before renting. If DD is all I get for blu ray then I'll just rent the dvd and the industry can go to blazes.

Where did you find the claim that lower bit rate video was used? Of course the total bitrate will be lower if comparing encode with lossy audio to encode with lossless audio but someone would have had to compare video bitrates specifically to know this is true. I am very skeptical that claim is true and wouldn't repeat it without knowing for certain.

Chris Gerhard · 01-30-2011, 05:25 AM

Blu-ray statistics.com indicates AVC encode with average bitrate for the barebones edition at 25.779 Mbps.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/De...ed_25192091506

So far I haven't found that information on the SE so it may not be entered yet.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/De...ed_25192098369

**ImRizzo** · 01-30-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I agree! I have been assuming it is a given that we would get a lossless audio track on everything at this point. The problem is Amazon often times just lists the same audio for BDs as they do for SD DVDs and do not list the audio on that particula BD title. I wish they would though as this could get harder to buy from them once I start getting burned by this new development.

I often buy the bare bones editions since I am not big on all those "making of ____" extras and listening to every actor/director/filmographer, etc etc all say what a joy it was working with everyone on the film. Blah blah! They all say mostly the same things only talking about the people they are working with on this particular film and will say the same about everyone on the next film as well as the one after that.

I completely agree, as I too am someone who's not interested in all the "extra BS" I just want the movie presented at it's "Best" top quality picture and sound. Now I've got to deeply research all my "buys" before plunking down the bucks.

**bruceames** · 01-30-2011, 08:53 AM

The video bitrate for Red has been lowered as well. Per Cinemasquid specs:

Red SE: 28.02 Mbps video bitrate
Red movie only: 25.78 Mbps

I wouldn't think the difference is noticable, at least like it is on the audio side.

SE audio: DTS-HD Master audio 5.1 48/24 3998 kpbs
movie-only audio: DD 5.1 640 kbps

To me, this is really alarming, and although this was released by Summit, which is not a major studio, I hope this practice doesn't spread to the major studios.

What I fear is that they may start shortchanging rental copies (put them all on BD25s) to save money and to get more people to buy than rent once the word gets out that there are different PQ/AQ tiers for rentals and purchases.

http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/m...Red+%282010%29
(click on "specs")

Chris Gerhard · 01-30-2011, 03:54 PM

Summit is one of the worst when it comes to Blu-ray and I am relatively certain that Sony, Warner, Disney, Fox, Universal, Lions Gate and Paramount are not going to follow their lead. Red isn't a minor release for Summit and I can understand that Summit needs it to sell well and make a good profit.

01-26-2011, 10:37 PM	#1
ChiefJoseph HD DVD ALL THE WAY Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 205	The movie Red on Blu-ray question Just rented RED blu ray from my nearest redbox and upon watching it, the only english track was simple dolby digital. Is this only the redbox edition? __________________ Hitachi 65twx20b Denon AVR 789 Infinity RS5 front Infinity RS4 rear Infinity IL36c center Velodyne DPS-10 Toshiba HD A2 Sony BDP-S350 Dishnetwork VIP722 HD DVR Massive Roof HD antenna

01-28-2011, 05:39 AM	#3
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	They offered a few BD versions of Red. The "Special Edition" packaging overs the HD MA track. The barebones version (second one listed in your link Bruce) offers only 5.1, which I guess Redbox is distributing. I believe Target is selling the barebones version for $13. __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty Last edited by dsskid; 01-28-2011 at 05:43 AM.

01-28-2011, 06:02 AM	#4
ImRizzo HDF SUPER MODERATOR Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Formerly: Brooklyn, New York .... It's not a place, it's an Attitude and a State of Mind !! Posts: 19,050	I have been unable to confirm differences in the "Regular" edition of RED and the Special edition,and the "Best-Buy" edition ?? other than the accompaniment of a comic and add. footage ? __________________ ..................................... PFC5 & Loves2Watch ~ RIP

01-29-2011, 01:32 AM	#5
ChiefJoseph HD DVD ALL THE WAY Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 205	Ya, I found the "movie only" edition only had dolby digital 5.1 as well as lower bit rate video. Next time I'll check before renting. If DD is all I get for blu ray then I'll just rent the dvd and the industry can go to blazes. __________________ Hitachi 65twx20b Denon AVR 789 Infinity RS5 front Infinity RS4 rear Infinity IL36c center Velodyne DPS-10 Toshiba HD A2 Sony BDP-S350 Dishnetwork VIP722 HD DVR Massive Roof HD antenna

01-29-2011, 02:31 PM	#7
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	The Best Buy BD / DVD combo and the Special Edition BD both have DTS HD MA audio. The barebone BD edition only had 5.1. __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty

01-30-2011, 05:09 AM	#10
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10,789	I haven't heard of this being done before. It is obviously a cost cutting measure to make the barebones version as inexpensive as possible. It should be clearly stated on the case when this is done although just correctly listing audio codecs on the back cover meets the buyer beware caviat. The lower video bitrate needed to fit the encode on a 25GB disc if true is more troubling than using lossy audio in my opinion. Could this be the shortage of BD50 discs I often read about here a few years ago instead of cost cutting? I would certainly rent this version rather than the DVD regardless.

01-30-2011, 05:25 AM	#12
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10,789	Blu-ray statistics.com indicates AVC encode with average bitrate for the barebones edition at 25.779 Mbps. http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/De...ed_25192091506 So far I haven't found that information on the SE so it may not be entered yet. http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/De...ed_25192098369

01-30-2011, 08:53 AM	#14
bruceames Super Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 15,392	The video bitrate for Red has been lowered as well. Per Cinemasquid specs: Red SE: 28.02 Mbps video bitrate Red movie only: 25.78 Mbps I wouldn't think the difference is noticable, at least like it is on the audio side. SE audio: DTS-HD Master audio 5.1 48/24 3998 kpbs movie-only audio: DD 5.1 640 kbps To me, this is really alarming, and although this was released by Summit, which is not a major studio, I hope this practice doesn't spread to the major studios. What I fear is that they may start shortchanging rental copies (put them all on BD25s) to save money and to get more people to buy than rent once the word gets out that there are different PQ/AQ tiers for rentals and purchases. http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/m...Red+%282010%29 (click on "specs") __________________ RIP Kosty. Just say NO to "always on" camera mounted on devices in your living room.

01-30-2011, 03:54 PM	#15
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10,789	Summit is one of the worst when it comes to Blu-ray and I am relatively certain that Sony, Warner, Disney, Fox, Universal, Lions Gate and Paramount are not going to follow their lead. Red isn't a minor release for Summit and I can understand that Summit needs it to sell well and make a good profit.

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