Broadcast 1080P?

Okie Bob 7 · 02-12-2008, 02:15 PM

I'm confused! Why buy a 1080P LCD set when the only way to get a 1080P signal is via Blu Ray or a game box? I don't do games...too old and don't yet have Blu Ray and may never.
I use Direct TV with an HD DVR. And if 1920X 1080 is 1080i, what is 1080P?
Told you I'm confused?
Okie Bob 7

Scottnot · 02-12-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie Bob 7

I'm confused! Why buy a 1080P LCD set when the only way to get a 1080P signal is via Blu Ray or a game box?

The only reason would be if you are buying a very large screen and/or sitting close enough that you see the lines with 720p.

Quote:

I use Direct TV with an HD DVR. And if 1920X 1080 is 1080i, what is 1080P?

If you have a 1080p set, it will take the 1080i signals and deinterlace them for progressive display.

If you have a 720p set, it will take 1080i signals and process them for display as 720p.

Okie Bob 7 · 02-12-2008, 02:53 PM

Thanks Scott for the response.
I plan on buying the 46" 'display' and will be sitting about 8 feet away.
Also, I see that the 120Hz refresh rate units are coming out now. Again, I ask, is this something I need? Cost difference is about $500 and if I were to go with 1080P and 120Hz it's close to $800 difference between a 720P with a 16ms refresth rate. I'll go with it if it is truly worthwhile but, I just am not sure it is.
Okie Bob 7
PS: all things equal would you buy Sony or Samsung? samd 46" display.

BrianO · 02-12-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie Bob 7

I'm confused! Why buy a 1080P LCD set when the only way to get a 1080P signal is via Blu Ray or a game box? I don't do games...too old and don't yet have Blu Ray and may never.
I use Direct TV with an HD DVR. And if 1920X 1080 is 1080i, what is 1080P?
Told you I'm confused?
Okie Bob 7

1080i and 1080p are both 1920 x 1080. The difference is the order in which the scan lines that form the individual frames are broadcast and/or viewed.

A 1080p TV is simply one with a screen resolution of 1920 x 1080 and a progressive display. It does not matter whether or not the TV can accept a 1080p signal. If it has 1920 x 1080 pixels and the images are displayed progressively, it is a 1080p display. Do not confuse what signal formats a TV can accept with how it displays the signals it receives. They are different issues.

All LCD TV's are progressive displays. All plasma sets except for those using Hitachi's ALIS technology are also progressive displays. (OTOH, CRT based TVs generally use interlaced displays). So when these TV's are fed an interlaced signal, be it 480i or 1080i, they must first de-interlace each frame in the signal to form a full frame. If the display's resolution is lower/higher than that of the signal, the frame must then be downscaled/upscaled to match the screen's resolution. Only then can the frame be displayed.

Most HD broadcasts are 1080i. A 1080p display can show 1080i without first downscaling to a lower resolution. It only needs to de-interlace it first.

OTOH, a TV with a 1366x768 display must both de-interlace and downscale 1080i before displaying the images. Downscaling involves throwing away some of the detail in the image. Whether or not the loss of detail is noticeable depends on a number of factors, including screen size coupled with viewing distance, and the amount of fine detail that is in the original signal. For an NFL football game on CBS (1080i) you probably will not notice any difference because of the lack of fine detail in the picture. For some of PBS's museum and travel shows on their HD channel (1080i) you might notice the loss of detail when viewing a 1080p set beside a 1366x768 set with the same screen size.

So, even if there were no sources of 1080p content, there are advantages to buying a 1080p display. Only you can decide if those advantages are worth the extra money that a 1080p set would cost compared to an equivalent quality 1366x768 TV. It's your money.

Scottnot · 02-12-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie Bob 7

I plan on buying the 46" 'display' and will be sitting about 8 feet away.

Man, you make it difficult!!!
That size screen and viewing distance are very much where people really start to argue - some will say that 720 is fine, while others will swear that you must have 1080.

Really, the best way for you to resolve the issue is to check out some sets at your viewing distance to see if you perceive a noticeable difference.

Quote:

Also, I see that the 120Hz refresh rate units are coming out now. Again, I ask, is this something I need?

I'm not qualified on that one. My opinion is that if you don't get it you'll never miss it.

Quote:

PS: all things equal would you buy Sony or Samsung? samd 46" display.

Flip a coin or base it on price and/or cabinet style preference.

**rbinck** · 02-12-2008, 06:51 PM

Couple of things. Okie you are a bit confused with the difference between a display type and a signal format. Don't fret, you are not alone, many people are. The 1080p type displays only means they are capable of displaying 1920x1080 pixel images. The 720p sets will display 1280x720 or 1366x768 pixel images. The signals they will accept to create those pixels is a completely different matter. Most all 1080p displays will accept a 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i input signals. Both 1080p and 720p sets will scale the image received to the native resolution of the set. Of those signals the only one that has the 1920x1080 pixel image is the 1080i. Now if you wish to have a set that will show all of the information sent to it, you would want to get a 1080p set. Will you be able to tell the difference with a 720p set side by side? Depends on the seating distance and your eyes, but only you can tell that. If you can't see the structure of the display then it is possible the 720p set would be fine.

truedamen · 02-17-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie Bob 7

Why buy a 1080P LCD set when the only way to get a 1080P signal is via Blu Ray or a game box? I don't do games...too old and don't yet have Blu Ray and may never.

By buying a 1080P set your set will display the highest resolution possible. If you are not planning on viewing Blu Ray (I would mention HD DVD but I want to keep it clean!) than save yourself some money and buy a set capable of 720p/ 1080i. Because due to bandwidth limitations it may be an awful long time before 1080P is broadcasted via satelite,ota,cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okie Bob 7

I use Direct TV with an HD DVR. And if 1920X 1080 is 1080i, what is 1080P?
Told you I'm confused?

1080P and 1080i both are 1920x1080; 1080i conveys the images in an interlaced format (the i in 1080i) Interlace sources(1080i and 480i) get "painted" on the screen sequentially: the odd-numbered lines of resolution appear on your screen first, followed by the even-numbered lines--all within 1/30 of a second. Progressive-scan formats such as 480p, 720p, and 1080p convey all of the lines of resolution sequentially in a single pass, which makes for a smoother, cleaner image, especially with sports and other motion-intensive content.

As far as the need for 120 hz will be up to you. 120Hz is a video-processing feature that is designed to eliminate judder(reduce motion blur) ; it's also referred to as "smoothing".I thought it was all hype until I installed a HT setup with a Sony Bravia SXRD KDS-55A3000 and all I can say is one word-WOW! With a tosh A3 upconverting a SD copy of transformers I could not believe the clarity and depth of the image. And if your budget is high research the Sony KDL-52XBR5.

**rbinck** · 02-17-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truedamen

1080P and 1080i both are 1920x1080; 1080i conveys the images in an interlaced format (the i in 1080i) Interlace sources(1080i and 480i) get "painted" on the screen sequentially: the odd-numbered lines of resolution appear on your screen first, followed by the even-numbered lines--all within 1/30 of a second. Progressive-scan formats such as 480p, 720p, and 1080p convey all of the lines of resolution sequentially in a single pass, which makes for a smoother, cleaner image, especially with sports and other motion-intensive content.

That was true of the CRT type HDTVs, but not for the fixed pixel HDTVs. The fixed pixel HDTVs will collect the frame into an image memory and refresh the screen at the screen refresh rate. No longer are the odd and even lines scanned onto the screen in an interlaced fashon. Current processors even will weave the two interlaced fields for film based input and bob the two interlaced fields for video based content. The main reason for the smoother motion response is the frame rate being doubled for progressive formats.

Willyvon1 · 01-06-2013, 01:11 PM

It's actually simple. A set with 1080I display capacity will require 2 scan cycles to form a 1920 x 1080 pixel frame or image. A 1080P display enabled set can do it in one scan(Image) cycle. The former, 1080i has to essentially Interlace 2 successive images to get the 1920 x 1080 resolution frame. The latter 1080P has the capacity to create the 1920 x 1080 image(frame) as 1 image.
The "scan" refers to the way the old CRT(picture tube) TVs worked. They had electron beams shooting from the "gun", that skinny necked section of the tube, to the screen that had to scan, line by line, each successive image/ frame onto the phosphor layered on the inside of the screen of the tube which glowed different colors for each beam to create the viewable image/frame. To the best of my knowledge even today's digital TV signals are based on that signal structure, just converted to a representative digital stream.

jkkyler · 01-07-2013, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyvon1

It's actually simple. A set with 1080I display capacity will require 2 scan cycles to form a 1920 x 1080 pixel frame or image. A 1080P display enabled set can do it in one scan(Image) cycle. The former, 1080i has to essentially Interlace 2 successive images to get the 1920 x 1080 resolution frame. The latter 1080P has the capacity to create the 1920 x 1080 image(frame) as 1 image.
The "scan" refers to the way the old CRT(picture tube) TVs worked. They had electron beams shooting from the "gun", that skinny necked section of the tube, to the screen that had to scan, line by line, each successive image/ frame onto the phosphor layered on the inside of the screen of the tube which glowed different colors for each beam to create the viewable image/frame. To the best of my knowledge even today's digital TV signals are based on that signal structure, just converted to a representative digital stream.

And now for my first trick .... - I call this one reviving a 5 year old post that nobody cares about!

**ImRizzo** · 01-07-2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyvon1

It's actually simple. A set with 1080I display capacity will require 2 scan cycles to form a 1920 x 1080 pixel frame or image. A 1080P display enabled set can do it in one scan(Image) cycle. The former, 1080i has to essentially Interlace 2 successive images to get the 1920 x 1080 resolution frame. The latter 1080P has the capacity to create the 1920 x 1080 image(frame) as 1 image.
The "scan" refers to the way the old CRT(picture tube) TVs worked. They had electron beams shooting from the "gun", that skinny necked section of the tube, to the screen that had to scan, line by line, each successive image/ frame onto the phosphor layered on the inside of the screen of the tube which glowed different colors for each beam to create the viewable image/frame. To the best of my knowledge even today's digital TV signals are based on that signal structure, just converted to a representative digital stream.

Wow! we waited 5 years for that response ???? WTH ?

02-12-2008, 02:15 PM	#1
Okie Bob 7 What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3	Broadcast 1080P? I'm confused! Why buy a 1080P LCD set when the only way to get a 1080P signal is via Blu Ray or a game box? I don't do games...too old and don't yet have Blu Ray and may never. I use Direct TV with an HD DVR. And if 1920X 1080 is 1080i, what is 1080P? Told you I'm confused? Okie Bob 7

02-12-2008, 02:53 PM	#3
Okie Bob 7 What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3	More info Thanks Scott for the response. I plan on buying the 46" 'display' and will be sitting about 8 feet away. Also, I see that the 120Hz refresh rate units are coming out now. Again, I ask, is this something I need? Cost difference is about $500 and if I were to go with 1080P and 120Hz it's close to $800 difference between a 720P with a 16ms refresth rate. I'll go with it if it is truly worthwhile but, I just am not sure it is. Okie Bob 7 PS: all things equal would you buy Sony or Samsung? samd 46" display.

02-12-2008, 06:51 PM	#6
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 15,603	Couple of things. Okie you are a bit confused with the difference between a display type and a signal format. Don't fret, you are not alone, many people are. The 1080p type displays only means they are capable of displaying 1920x1080 pixel images. The 720p sets will display 1280x720 or 1366x768 pixel images. The signals they will accept to create those pixels is a completely different matter. Most all 1080p displays will accept a 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i input signals. Both 1080p and 720p sets will scale the image received to the native resolution of the set. Of those signals the only one that has the 1920x1080 pixel image is the 1080i. Now if you wish to have a set that will show all of the information sent to it, you would want to get a 1080p set. Will you be able to tell the difference with a 720p set side by side? Depends on the seating distance and your eyes, but only you can tell that. If you can't see the structure of the display then it is possible the 720p set would be fine. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

01-06-2013, 01:11 PM	#9
Willyvon1 What is HD? Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1	1080i---1080P It's actually simple. A set with 1080I display capacity will require 2 scan cycles to form a 1920 x 1080 pixel frame or image. A 1080P display enabled set can do it in one scan(Image) cycle. The former, 1080i has to essentially Interlace 2 successive images to get the 1920 x 1080 resolution frame. The latter 1080P has the capacity to create the 1920 x 1080 image(frame) as 1 image. The "scan" refers to the way the old CRT(picture tube) TVs worked. They had electron beams shooting from the "gun", that skinny necked section of the tube, to the screen that had to scan, line by line, each successive image/ frame onto the phosphor layered on the inside of the screen of the tube which glowed different colors for each beam to create the viewable image/frame. To the best of my knowledge even today's digital TV signals are based on that signal structure, just converted to a representative digital stream.

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