Bars, Bars and More Bars

patmurphey · 12-09-2006, 03:04 PM

The Dish Network 622 PVR makes dealing with bars simple. It switches to your last zoom setting when changing between HD and SD stations. If you don't like your last setting, just cycle through the Zoom/Wide zoom/Gray bar/ normal(black bar when4:3) settings with the screen button on the remote. I use the wide zoom setting for SD and the occasional HD program that displays as 4:3 (i.e. Bob Vila on CBS). These settings are native to the reciever - not the settings in my Sony LCD TV.

I like the wide zoom of the PVR (full width slight vertical compression cutting a little off the top and bottom) better than the Sony version with its normal center and wider toward the edges. Your eye quickly adapts to the "even" extra width as normal. And of course most HD is viewed with the normal setting - full screen.

Pat

JHB50 · 12-11-2006, 08:58 PM

I have a Sony 32 LCD. Gives me Normal/Full/Zoom/WideZoom on 480 sources and Full/Zoom/WideZoom on 720 and 1080 sources.
I receive my DT OTA. One local DT channel has 1 720 16:9 HD feed, 1 480 (640) 4:3 feed and 1 480 (704) 16:9 feed. The first is ABC, the second CW network and the third is FOX. (Yes they are all on the same digital channel, simply two DT feeds of the analog stations)

The first 2 work fine and zoom and stretch as they should..., Problem is the third one...in Normal mode the 4:3 picture is squished horizontally, and only looks 4:3 'normal' when stretched horizontally by Full mode, but then neither Zoom nor WideZoom fills the screen horizontally because it is already stretched.

I want to tell the station about this but I don't know what the problem is...is it simply because the have put a 4:3 into a 16:9 aspect mode feed which can be fixed by changing to the 704x480 4:3 aspect ratio or did they do something else to squish it?

Bash · 12-25-2006, 03:37 PM

LNS-4695D Samsung, with a Motorola 6416 III box. Settings are TV type: 16:9, HDMI/YPbPr: 1080i, 4:3 override: 480p. What am I doing wrong? I feel there should be no upper and lower bars with the settings I have on the cable box. Anyone else had this problem? I have done a ton of reading and I am getting nowhere. Thanx in advance.

Bash · 12-25-2006, 08:20 PM

Had the wrong source for the picture. Went through and chose HDMI, now all is fine. Absolutely BLOWN AWAY by the HD picture on this set. Recommend the LNS-4695D to anyone. Now if I could only figure out the SD thing.............what a disappointment SD is. It is a little better when I go to the direct cable in, instead of HDMI. Any suggestions would be great.

borromini · 12-26-2006, 12:42 AM

SD is what it is on an HDTV. Most of us have moved on and have gotten used to it while actually watching more HD programs than anything else.

Bash · 12-26-2006, 03:55 PM

SD, while not the greatest (or as good as HDTV), really is acceptable on the LNS-4695D. We just stay on the HDMI connection and play around with the various picture modes (standard, movie, etc) and leave it on the one that shows the best. What a TV.

terren2000 · 04-06-2007, 03:33 PM

I love the Blackbars.

When i 1st got a DVD, I got rid of the Black bars. but since im a Movie fanatic, i did some research and saw how much of the movie I was missing from the edges.

That was improtnat to me. I will turn off a movie if its full screen. Whenever I buy a movie and I find out it has no Black bars, I give it a way.

But on Directv, the Black or gray bars improves the pictures. Stretching a 4:3 show just doesnt look good.

Its alot you ahve to know having an HD channel. It can be very discouraging, and will take alot of time, b4 you can perfect your viewing preferences.

terren2000 · 04-06-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

In DVD movie terminology, "Widescreen" means any movie made with an aspect ratio wider than the old Academy Standard of 1.37:1. So, although 1.85:1 is no longer considered to be widescreen in the movie business, it is still widescreen in the DVD world. The term "Widescreen" is used to distinguish these DVD's from "Fullscreen" which means that the image has an aspect ratio of 4:3 so that it fills the screen on a conventional 4:3 TV. Fullscreen DVD's are either cropped widescreen movies or older movies that were made using the 1.37:1 Academy standard ratio.

Any movie with an aspect ratio greater than 1.78:1 (16:9) will be shown in a letterboxed* form (bars at the top and bottom of the screen) on a 16:9 widescreen TV. On many TV's a 1.85:1 movie will fill the screen without bars due to overscan. On other TV's the 1.85:1 movies will show very thin, barely notceable black bars.

Besides 1.85:1, the most common aspect ratios are 2.35:1, 2.39:1 and 2.40:1. The 2.39:1 and 2.40:1 movies are all movies filmed with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, but shown in theatres with with projector apertures that have been reduced in height to eliminate flashing at the top and/or bottom of the screen whenever a splice is encountered in the print of the film.

DVD's of CinemaScope movies made from 1953 to 1957 can have an aspect ratio of 2.55:1 rather than the newer 2.35:1 standard introduced in 1955 to accomodate optical mono soundtracks for exhibition in theatres that could not afford the stereophonic sound systems required to show the 2.55:1 movies.

Ultra Panavison (or Ultra Panavision 70) is Panvision's name for MGM's Camera 65. It was developed by Panavision to meet specifications provided to them by MGM. It used a 65 mm negative but a 70mm print with the extra width of the print being used to accomodate an extra 2 channels in the soundtrack. Only a few movies were made using this process. In addition to "Mutiny on the Bounty", MGM also filmed "Ben Hur" using this system and 70 mm prints had an aspect ratio of 2.76:1. 35mm CinemaScope compatible prints were also made with smaller aspect ratios. "Raintree County" was also filmed in Camera 65 but no 70 mm prints were made for exhibition; only 35mm CinemaScope prints were made.

* The term "letterboxed" refers to both movies that stored anamorphically and those stored in a non-anamorphic form.

wow, great info. I need to copy and paste this stuff, so I can sound smart in front of my friends.

Most of the stuff said I here I always wondered about.

Big Pauly · 07-04-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Tech

Here's my thinking... Burn-in is the aging of the phophor coating on the screen. If the bars are black, those spaces are unused and NOT aging, meanwhile, the rest of the screen is aging. Thus, giving us a darker picture in the middle and a brighter picture at the edges as time goes on.

If we use the gray bars instead, we can attempt to make the entire screen age at roughly the same rate... minimizing the burn-in to a much higher degree.

does that go for watching DVD's (black bars on top/bottom) too?

or are you talkin strickly when wathing HDTV with the bars on the sides??

I've been reading obsesently on-line...i'm paranoid as hell now about burnig in my new 50" Samsumg plasma...prior to buying i read a lot...but only now (after a week of owning) have i stumbled accross the info that the black bars on the top/bottom when watching a movie are going to cause burn-in...i keep reading that it is in fact being displayed by the DVD...the black you see isn't the black of the TV..

I'm watchin everything in full frame now...but am i safe to watch the ocassional movie in regular 16:9 showing the black bars on top/bottom??

is the myth of waiting 100hrs before i play things showing the black bars true?

I been going through all my movies picking out the ones that are 1.72:1 or whatever it is...that seems to fill the whole screen without having to zoom in with my DVD player cutting off the sides of the picture..

sorry for the war and peace first post....i've been browsing the site for a minute and finally have a new TV of my own to talk about...haha

cheers..

**rbinck** · 07-04-2007, 10:25 PM

Occasional is the key word. The pillar box bars on the side becomes a problem because some people who have their favorite shows on SD channels end up watching hour after hour with the bars on the side. Occasional is not much of a problem anymore.

50ul }{4ck3r · 07-28-2007, 07:16 PM

yes

tvine2000 · 01-02-2009, 05:19 AM

why is this thread still here, its 3years old!
and just opens up that stupid black bar debate.
you ether don't care about black bar or you do.
if you do,,, find another hobby,because thats the way it is.
i doubt will ever see a fullscreen version of a widescreen movie on bd.
unless it was shot that way.

Vinceg99 · Yesterday, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvine2000

why is this thread still here, its 3years old!
and just opens up that stupid black bar debate.
you ether don't care about black bar or you do.
if you do,,, find another hobby,because thats the way it is.
i doubt will ever see a fullscreen version of a widescreen movie on bd.
unless it was shot that way.

OK now while I have yet to read the whole thread (skipped to the end to see the last post) now im wondering so is there no settings to keep the screen full ALL of the time? I guess its all new to me my brother in-law has had a 46 or 50 inch plasma for like 7 or so years no its not an HDTV but he never messes with the setting and always has a full screen no black bars not sure about when he watches DVD's but any cable channel he has its always full

12-11-2006, 08:58 PM	#77
JHB50 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 31	Squished 4:3 I have a Sony 32 LCD. Gives me Normal/Full/Zoom/WideZoom on 480 sources and Full/Zoom/WideZoom on 720 and 1080 sources. I receive my DT OTA. One local DT channel has 1 720 16:9 HD feed, 1 480 (640) 4:3 feed and 1 480 (704) 16:9 feed. The first is ABC, the second CW network and the third is FOX. (Yes they are all on the same digital channel, simply two DT feeds of the analog stations) The first 2 work fine and zoom and stretch as they should..., Problem is the third one...in Normal mode the 4:3 picture is squished horizontally, and only looks 4:3 'normal' when stretched horizontally by Full mode, but then neither Zoom nor WideZoom fills the screen horizontally because it is already stretched. I want to tell the station about this but I don't know what the problem is...is it simply because the have put a 4:3 into a 16:9 aspect mode feed which can be fixed by changing to the 704x480 4:3 aspect ratio or did they do something else to squish it?

12-25-2006, 03:37 PM	#78
Bash How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21	Still have bars upper and lower with settings...... LNS-4695D Samsung, with a Motorola 6416 III box. Settings are TV type: 16:9, HDMI/YPbPr: 1080i, 4:3 override: 480p. What am I doing wrong? I feel there should be no upper and lower bars with the settings I have on the cable box. Anyone else had this problem? I have done a ton of reading and I am getting nowhere. Thanx in advance.

12-25-2006, 08:20 PM	#79
Bash How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21	FIgured it out....... Had the wrong source for the picture. Went through and chose HDMI, now all is fine. Absolutely BLOWN AWAY by the HD picture on this set. Recommend the LNS-4695D to anyone. Now if I could only figure out the SD thing.............what a disappointment SD is. It is a little better when I go to the direct cable in, instead of HDMI. Any suggestions would be great.

12-26-2006, 12:42 AM	#80
borromini HT Frontiersman Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 9,566	SD is what it is on an HDTV. Most of us have moved on and have gotten used to it while actually watching more HD programs than anything else. __________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

12-26-2006, 03:55 PM	#81
Bash How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21	I take it back.......... SD, while not the greatest (or as good as HDTV), really is acceptable on the LNS-4695D. We just stay on the HDMI connection and play around with the various picture modes (standard, movie, etc) and leave it on the one that shows the best. What a TV.

12-09-2006, 03:04 PM	#76
patmurphey Sony/Dish HD user Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Newton, NJ Posts: 98	The Dish Network 622 PVR makes dealing with bars simple. It switches to your last zoom setting when changing between HD and SD stations. If you don't like your last setting, just cycle through the Zoom/Wide zoom/Gray bar/ normal(black bar when4:3) settings with the screen button on the remote. I use the wide zoom setting for SD and the occasional HD program that displays as 4:3 (i.e. Bob Vila on CBS). These settings are native to the reciever - not the settings in my Sony LCD TV. I like the wide zoom of the PVR (full width slight vertical compression cutting a little off the top and bottom) better than the Sony version with its normal center and wider toward the edges. Your eye quickly adapts to the "even" extra width as normal. And of course most HD is viewed with the normal setting - full screen. Pat

04-06-2007, 03:33 PM	#82
terren2000 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 78	I love the Blackbars. When i 1st got a DVD, I got rid of the Black bars. but since im a Movie fanatic, i did some research and saw how much of the movie I was missing from the edges. That was improtnat to me. I will turn off a movie if its full screen. Whenever I buy a movie and I find out it has no Black bars, I give it a way. But on Directv, the Black or gray bars improves the pictures. Stretching a 4:3 show just doesnt look good. Its alot you ahve to know having an HD channel. It can be very discouraging, and will take alot of time, b4 you can perfect your viewing preferences. Last edited by terren2000; 04-06-2007 at 03:37 PM.

07-04-2007, 10:25 PM	#85
rbinck Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 10,612	Occasional is the key word. The pillar box bars on the side becomes a problem because some people who have their favorite shows on SD channels end up watching hour after hour with the bars on the side. Occasional is not much of a problem anymore. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

07-28-2007, 07:16 PM	#86
50ul }{4ck3r My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5	yes

01-02-2009, 05:19 AM	#87
tvine2000 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 599	why is this thread still here, its 3years old! and just opens up that stupid black bar debate. you ether don't care about black bar or you do. if you do,,, find another hobby,because thats the way it is. i doubt will ever see a fullscreen version of a widescreen movie on bd. unless it was shot that way. Last edited by tvine2000; 01-02-2009 at 05:25 AM.

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