DTV Formats and How That Relates to HDTV

RSawdey · 06-11-2005, 11:29 AM

That's PILLAR box... as in pillars on the sides of an entryway, or the Parthenon. Up & Down instead of side to side with LETTER boxing.

Ellerbestyle · 09-15-2005, 09:47 PM

Ok I have a question

If I have a 50" inch tv that is not wide screen but it is an HDTV, and if I tell the tv to display in 4:3 on a HD channel is it still considered HD. It looks just as good, I just would see less than a wide screen tv, right?

The reason I do this, is I hate how much grey there is on top and bottom when I do 16:9 in 720p or 1080i.

**rbinck** · 09-15-2005, 09:49 PM

Yes it is still HD. It will just make people look very tall.

RSawdey · 09-18-2005, 08:32 PM

The one button diet plan! Makes you look 100 pounds thinner!

1080PsF · 01-19-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

If it ain't listed as a valid HD format, It's not HD. And that 1080 vs 540 dosen't make 540p HD because 540p is not in the list of ATSC formats. The progressive vs interlaced thing only really applies with computer monitors. TV is a whole different animal. That motion blur thing is way overblown. See http://highdefforum.com/showpost.php...14&postcount=5 for discussion on pixel straddling which is just as much a distortion.

Pretty much all HDTV monitors will scale the input received to add overscan. Take for example you have a 720 line fixed pixel display. You can not display all 720 lines received because the first few lines will contain video noise. The broadcasters have been using this area for years to embed data. The least amount of overscan generally acceptable is 2%, so only about 705 lines can be shown. Those 705 lines will be scaled to fit the 720 lines your display has. I used the vertical, but the horizontal is scaled in the same manner. So it really dosen't matter much as you have to have a weird resolution to get back to a 1:1 pixel mapping and generally only possible with a computer and a display that will tolerate expanded timings.

Frist of all "If it ain't listed as a valid HD format, It's not HD." this statement is so not true there are over 13 HD formats not including Sony's new 4:4:4 formats. ATSC list for broadcast only.

Then is statement "You can not display all 720 lines received because the first few lines will contain video noise. The broadcasters have been using this area for years to embed data. The least amount of overscan generally acceptable is 2%, so only about 705 lines can be shown." Once again not true. The picture is made of active and inactive pixels. The vertical scan rate of a 720p signal is really 750 lines the other 30 lines are called vertical blanking. The horizontal scan is not 1280 pixels but really 1650 the extra 370 pixels are horizontal blanking. There is data in the h & v blanking e.g. closed captioning, audio, and even time code.
Note the term inactive just means not visible.

The overscan can be as much as 10%.

Vitalijs · 03-08-2006, 02:18 AM

I have Philips 37PF9975/12, 1024x1024 plasma display with DVI input manual says it supports 1080i, does not say about 720p. How can I use HD equipment when it comes to it. For instance if I connect HDTV sat receiver, some channels transmit in 720p. How can I view them? What about HD DVD, Blue Disc, HD camcorder?

JHB50 · 12-11-2006, 09:43 PM

I have 2 questions:

1) You indicate that some stations have chosen 704x480 16:9 format...why would they do that instead of 4:3 when many sets cannot stretch/zoom 16:9 ?

2) Since 4:3 letterboxed commercials get stuffed into HD 16:9 broadcasts, why can't the stations or the sets automatically zoom window boxed material...doesn't strike me as difficult to detect that black/grey pixels exist all around the outside.

Corkster · 05-02-2007, 08:26 PM

that is interesting.

hd-Dude · 05-03-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhaustin1943

Some flat-panel computer displays are coming out called WUXGA or WQXGA, with pixel counts that would accommodate 1920x1080, but the actual ratios are not 16:9, the most common being 16:10, e.g.

1920x1200 (16:10) 2048x1536 (16:10), 3840x2400 (16:10), even 1920x1440 (4:3),

Hi,

did anyone actually announced any 3840x2400 LCD television on the market yet ?

**PFC5** · 05-03-2007, 11:10 PM

No one will be coming out for YEARS I imagine with anything higher than 1920x1080 for HDTVs. They will come out with them for computer displays so that there is enough pixels for larger COMPUTER screens though. Many different resolutions do not matter as much with computers as it does with HDTV standards since with HDTVs we are dependent on the content providers to supply the actual content. It is taking years just to get them to move to either 720p or 1080i, so I wouldn't wait for any new "Ultra" HDTV resolutions to come before jumping into the HDTV game.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Skeptus · 04-12-2008, 06:46 PM

I am an HDTV newbie, please be patient with me. Both my HDTVs are 720P, yet accept 1080i input. Why is this? Are there any advantages to setting the output of my Dish receivers to 1080i rather than 720P? Thanks in advance.
Bill

deadhead68 · 04-13-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptus

I am an HDTV newbie, please be patient with me. Both my HDTVs are 720P, yet accept 1080i input. Why is this?

If your TV didn't accept 1080i inputs, you wouldn't be able to watch CBS, NBC, and a ton of other HD channels that broadcast in 1080i.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptus

Are there any advantages to setting the output of my Dish receivers to 1080i rather than 720P? Thanks in advance.
Bill

Personally I like to have my TV do the converting so I try to feed the signal to my TV in it's original format. But try both and see which one YOU like best.

DeadHead68

Skeptus · 04-15-2008, 11:50 AM

Thank you Deadhead!

hdupdate.com · 10-09-2008, 04:40 PM

I just read an article about the ATSC compression format, and how in the future, an ATSC 2.0 standard may include Mpeg 4 with H.264 encoding rather than the high bitrate Mpeg 2 compression used now. If this takes place, we may be looking at a whole new spec sheet including resolutions and bitrates when comparing HDTV standards. Thanks ~Adam www.hdupdate.com

**rbinck** · 10-13-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdupdate.com

I just read an article about the ATSC compression format, and how in the future, an ATSC 2.0 standard may include Mpeg 4 with H.264 encoding rather than the high bitrate Mpeg 2 compression used now. If this takes place, we may be looking at a whole new spec sheet including resolutions and bitrates when comparing HDTV standards. Thanks ~Adam www.hdupdate.com

Where did you read this article? Seems like it would take another act of Congress to allow that. What about all of the existing equipment?

09-15-2005, 09:49 PM	#33
rbinck Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 10,612	Yes it is still HD. It will just make people look very tall. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

05-03-2007, 11:10 PM	#40
PFC5 Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 21,026	No one will be coming out for YEARS I imagine with anything higher than 1920x1080 for HDTVs. They will come out with them for computer displays so that there is enough pixels for larger COMPUTER screens though. Many different resolutions do not matter as much with computers as it does with HDTV standards since with HDTVs we are dependent on the content providers to supply the actual content. It is taking years just to get them to move to either 720p or 1080i, so I wouldn't wait for any new "Ultra" HDTV resolutions to come before jumping into the HDTV game. Oh, and welcome to the forum! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Home Depot Extension Cords for speaker wire Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

04-12-2008, 06:46 PM	#41
Skeptus What is HD? Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4	1080i input for 720P HDTV I am an HDTV newbie, please be patient with me. Both my HDTVs are 720P, yet accept 1080i input. Why is this? Are there any advantages to setting the output of my Dish receivers to 1080i rather than 720P? Thanks in advance. Bill

10-09-2008, 04:40 PM	#44
hdupdate.com How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 20	compression format is important too. I just read an article about the ATSC compression format, and how in the future, an ATSC 2.0 standard may include Mpeg 4 with H.264 encoding rather than the high bitrate Mpeg 2 compression used now. If this takes place, we may be looking at a whole new spec sheet including resolutions and bitrates when comparing HDTV standards. Thanks ~Adam www.hdupdate.com

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06-11-2005, 11:29 AM	#31
RSawdey Mr. Wizard Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ferndale, Michigan Age: 60 Posts: 5,981	That's PILLAR box... as in pillars on the sides of an entryway, or the Parthenon. Up & Down instead of side to side with LETTER boxing.

09-15-2005, 09:47 PM	#32
Ellerbestyle High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 39	Ok I have a question If I have a 50" inch tv that is not wide screen but it is an HDTV, and if I tell the tv to display in 4:3 on a HD channel is it still considered HD. It looks just as good, I just would see less than a wide screen tv, right? The reason I do this, is I hate how much grey there is on top and bottom when I do 16:9 in 720p or 1080i.

09-18-2005, 08:32 PM	#34
RSawdey Mr. Wizard Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ferndale, Michigan Age: 60 Posts: 5,981	The one button diet plan! Makes you look 100 pounds thinner!

03-08-2006, 02:18 AM	#36
Vitalijs What is HD? Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	I have Philips 37PF9975/12, 1024x1024 plasma display with DVI input manual says it supports 1080i, does not say about 720p. How can I use HD equipment when it comes to it. For instance if I connect HDTV sat receiver, some channels transmit in 720p. How can I view them? What about HD DVD, Blue Disc, HD camcorder?

12-11-2006, 09:43 PM	#37
JHB50 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 31	I have 2 questions: 1) You indicate that some stations have chosen 704x480 16:9 format...why would they do that instead of 4:3 when many sets cannot stretch/zoom 16:9 ? 2) Since 4:3 letterboxed commercials get stuffed into HD 16:9 broadcasts, why can't the stations or the sets automatically zoom window boxed material...doesn't strike me as difficult to detect that black/grey pixels exist all around the outside.

05-02-2007, 08:26 PM	#38
Corkster My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 7	that is interesting.

04-15-2008, 11:50 AM	#43
Skeptus What is HD? Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4	Thank you Deadhead!