A Discussion On Poor SD On HDTVs

westcott · 03-07-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieDZ

didnt get to read through this entire thread(kinda in a hurry but will when i have time).. i only have one question and its regarding HDTV LCD's (especially a 32" sharp)

how does the non-hd channels look on a LCD HDTV?...good, decent? bad?

On a 32 inch display, you will be less affected by the poor quality of SD than if you were to go much larger. Denpends on the station, provider, and whether or not you use OTA signals.

If you are using satellite, I know that Directv is scheduled to go all HD by 2007. Not to long to wait if the schedule stays the same.

Kirwin · 03-09-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcott

On a 32 inch display, you will be less affected by the poor quality of SD than if you were to go much larger. Denpends on the station, provider, and whether or not you use OTA signals.

If you are using satellite, I know that Directv is scheduled to go all HD by 2007. Not to long to wait if the schedule stays the same.

Hi westcott,

Do you have a link where Directv is scheduled to go all HD? I would like to know more details about this!

Thanks in advance,
Kirwin

**rbinck** · 03-09-2006, 09:49 PM

That was probably a reference to they plan to complete their HD locals roll out sometime in 2007. I've never seen anywhere they plan to be all HD ever. There are too many SD channels that broadcast just SD stuff.

westcott · 03-10-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirwin

Hi westcott,

Do you have a link where Directv is scheduled to go all HD? I would like to know more details about this!

Thanks in advance,
Kirwin

I have seen no official information about this change but I did read exactly what I stated on another reliable site review. I wish I could remember where. It sounds feasible if they have the satellites to support it, which have been launched already, and MPEP 4 players are distributed over the coming months. Not sure how many stations will have the content resolution for this to become a reality but I can always hope.

slump buster · 03-16-2006, 10:52 AM

is a great resource for up-to-date Directv and Dish information.

There is lots of discussion on this in other forums but the Monster Power conditioner improved my SD picture and audio by 20%. My girlfriend knows next to nothing about tv's but noticed the difference without even knowing that I had added it.

http://www.buy.com/prod/Monster_Powe.../90119434.html

Job Man · 04-01-2006, 09:28 PM

Great information, thanks. Any idea why my sound may be pulsing static or play softer on high def channels?

**rbinck** · 04-01-2006, 09:48 PM

Yep. They don't pay as much attention to the 1% HD viewers.

westcott · 04-04-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Job Man

Great information, thanks. Any idea why my sound may be pulsing static or play softer on high def channels?

I am not sure why your sound may be pulsing but I have a pretty good idea why your HD channles are playing softer.

Showtime had free programming this weekend and it confirmed what I was hearing on the recently released TNTHD.

These stations are compressing the 5.1 audio and you have to turn up the volume about 10dB compared to other stations that are not as compressed. It sounds like everything below 40 or 50Hz is missing entirely.

nuttyinnyc · 09-05-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magjammer

I recently switched from Dish Network to Time Warner. Using my receiver's (Explorer 3250HD) "auto" scaling / conversion capabilities there is an obvious and bothersome flicker. This did not occur with Dish Network's 811 receiver or if I choose not to use the 3250 upconversion-1 feature; opting to manually adjust the scaling between HD and non-HD signals. Will this flickering damage my Hitachi rear projection TV?

BTW, I activated all the possible viewing formats via the advanced HD wizard setup on the 3250hd receiver since all the formats were "viewable". If I'm allowed 2 questions then; would selecting a subset eliminate this flicker?

This forum rocks,
-Mike

It will not damage your TV, but if you want it to stop you change the auto format to 1080i or what ever your native resolution is on your TV and it will eliminate all flicker. It doesn't mean all channels are 1080i it just informs your TV that a 1080i signal is coming and it doesn't have to change itself or something like that. I kind of like the flicker then I can tell which format I am watching. good luck

lakeperson2 · 09-06-2006, 11:08 AM

Hi folks, just bought the SONY 34XBR970. It has one HDMI port. I will pick up a HDcable box from Time Warner today with, they tell me, an HDMI port there. I also need to buy a progressive scan DVD player. For a few more bucks I am told that I should get one with an HDMI port that "upconverts" to a higher resolution. Cheap suggestions anyone? SOOOO what should I do for the connections? Cable box to TV? DVD player to TV? Can I "split" an HDMI cable? I watch broadcast TV mostly but really want to get the best DVD playback that I can? Suggestions?

One more question: I am sure that I have goofed up the picture settings. Everything looks really contrast-y with hot reds and deep too-dark blacks etc. Any suggestions on how to reset the picture settings to just a plain normal? LOL

Whew, thanks for your patience, I am older than dirt and this stuff is new as a baby for me!

MitchieA · 11-07-2006, 09:21 PM

Based on consumer reports ratings, it appears that LCDs offer better SD reproduction than their plasma counterparts. Not a single plasma set rated scored better than a "Good" rating for SD PQ whereas roughly half of the LCDs scored a "Very Good". Food for thought.

Baus · 11-12-2006, 10:50 AM

rbinck,
Great post - it is helpful but sometimes you get beyond me with teck terms.

cracker asked the question I have. I have a Sony 60" rear projection and use Direct TV - So should I (1) split the coax cable out of the wall and run one to HD box and one to TV? If yes, do I need to do anything when watching HD vs. SD? like a switch or something????
Thanks

nuttyinnyc · 11-13-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baus

rbinck,
Great post - it is helpful but sometimes you get beyond me with teck terms.

cracker asked the question I have. I have a Sony 60" rear projection and use Direct TV - So should I (1) split the coax cable out of the wall and run one to HD box and one to TV? If yes, do I need to do anything when watching HD vs. SD? like a switch or something????
Thanks

no it will be feeding the TV on 2 different inputs in theory it is like if you split the signal to 2 different TVs so no switch is needed. Your TV will have coax in the cable coax connector and your HD Box should have a HDMI or DVI connector use that and those channels will be on an external input.

Winston · 01-22-2007, 12:00 PM

I am an SD user who, increasingly, has been invited to friends homes to view their "super deluxe" new HD installations. They rave (as well they must after spending $5,000) while I try to mask my grimace.

Possibly we could ignore poor SD quality arguing that SD is a dinosaur soon to be extinct. But will it really be extinct? I, for one, have a substantial collection of home videos that, now, with the advent of excellent computer editing software (Pinnacle/Avid Liquid) - - that I am finally committing to DVD and distributing to other family members. And while I’ll not take the same ‘approach’ as one other writer to this thread (who sees himself being placed, soon I gather, in a casket) . . . it is possible that SD will be with me the rest of my life (and that of my children?).

So my first inquiry is one of how to display SD images on HD monitors - - with quality. Now let me limit my inquiry - - having read every post to this thread, it is clear that video compression is destroying much of the quality of broadcast video, particularly over the cable and satellite, and once the signal has been destroyed, there is little that we, as consumers, can do to recapture the quality. (And I’d like to thank Moderator Rbinck for his photos that too accurately depict the degeneration of video quality occasioned by compression.).

But as another thread commentator, InterceptPoint, noted, this compression cannot justify the generally poor performance of HD monitors when connected directly to a local source of video (e.g. my home video creations) or to standard SD broadcasts. Clearly, as InterceptPoint put it, there is something else going on.

And the answer may simply be in the scan conversion algorythms used to convert NTSC to 1080i/p. But, again repeating IP, how difficult can it be to multiply 480 lines by 2? I do not expect my SD video to look any better on an HD monitor, but I do expect it to look no worse. We use the term “lossless” to describe compression algorythms that do not destroy the inherent picture information/quality - - in that vernacular, I am looking for a ‘lossless’ way of displaying SD video on an HD monitor (TV). And on a related point, does anyone know of software that can convert SD video to HD?

My second inquiry for this thread is more a statement or rhetorical. It seems (based on my limited observations of DirectTV HD satellite) that the improved quality of the higher resolution is nearly completely offset by the distortions/artifacts of compression. I’m told to sit further from the TV . . . but even at a distance I find the compression to be objectionable. And what’s the advantage of a large screen if one has to sit so far - - that the screen becomes ‘small to the view’?

sneakz · 02-10-2007, 10:41 PM

You are a Godsend to a newbie like me who is anxiously awaiting delivery of my 42" LCD HDTV next week! You answered questions I didn't even know I had. Thank you again for being such a valuable resource for all of us. You should write a book. Really!

~Sneaks

03-09-2006, 09:49 PM	#78
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,335	That was probably a reference to they plan to complete their HD locals roll out sometime in 2007. I've never seen anywhere they plan to be all HD ever. There are too many SD channels that broadcast just SD stuff. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

04-01-2006, 09:28 PM	#81
Job Man My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5	Great information, thanks. Any idea why my sound may be pulsing static or play softer on high def channels? __________________ JM

04-01-2006, 09:48 PM	#82
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,335	Yep. They don't pay as much attention to the 1% HD viewers. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

01-22-2007, 12:00 PM	#89
Winston Personal Video Editing Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 2	Is that all there is? I am an SD user who, increasingly, has been invited to friends homes to view their "super deluxe" new HD installations. They rave (as well they must after spending $5,000) while I try to mask my grimace. Possibly we could ignore poor SD quality arguing that SD is a dinosaur soon to be extinct. But will it really be extinct? I, for one, have a substantial collection of home videos that, now, with the advent of excellent computer editing software (Pinnacle/Avid Liquid) - - that I am finally committing to DVD and distributing to other family members. And while I’ll not take the same ‘approach’ as one other writer to this thread (who sees himself being placed, soon I gather, in a casket) . . . it is possible that SD will be with me the rest of my life (and that of my children?). So my first inquiry is one of how to display SD images on HD monitors - - with quality. Now let me limit my inquiry - - having read every post to this thread, it is clear that video compression is destroying much of the quality of broadcast video, particularly over the cable and satellite, and once the signal has been destroyed, there is little that we, as consumers, can do to recapture the quality. (And I’d like to thank Moderator Rbinck for his photos that too accurately depict the degeneration of video quality occasioned by compression.). But as another thread commentator, InterceptPoint, noted, this compression cannot justify the generally poor performance of HD monitors when connected directly to a local source of video (e.g. my home video creations) or to standard SD broadcasts. Clearly, as InterceptPoint put it, there is something else going on. And the answer may simply be in the scan conversion algorythms used to convert NTSC to 1080i/p. But, again repeating IP, how difficult can it be to multiply 480 lines by 2? I do not expect my SD video to look any better on an HD monitor, but I do expect it to look no worse. We use the term “lossless” to describe compression algorythms that do not destroy the inherent picture information/quality - - in that vernacular, I am looking for a ‘lossless’ way of displaying SD video on an HD monitor (TV). And on a related point, does anyone know of software that can convert SD video to HD? My second inquiry for this thread is more a statement or rhetorical. It seems (based on my limited observations of DirectTV HD satellite) that the improved quality of the higher resolution is nearly completely offset by the distortions/artifacts of compression. I’m told to sit further from the TV . . . but even at a distance I find the compression to be objectionable. And what’s the advantage of a large screen if one has to sit so far - - that the screen becomes ‘small to the view’?

02-10-2007, 10:41 PM	#90
sneakz What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	Thank YOU!! You are a Godsend to a newbie like me who is anxiously awaiting delivery of my 42" LCD HDTV next week! You answered questions I didn't even know I had. Thank you again for being such a valuable resource for all of us. You should write a book. Really! ~Sneaks

03-16-2006, 10:52 AM	#80
slump buster My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 7	is a great resource for up-to-date Directv and Dish information. There is lots of discussion on this in other forums but the Monster Power conditioner improved my SD picture and audio by 20%. My girlfriend knows next to nothing about tv's but noticed the difference without even knowing that I had added it. http://www.buy.com/prod/Monster_Powe.../90119434.html

09-06-2006, 11:08 AM	#85
lakeperson2 What is HD? Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1	Hi folks, just bought the SONY 34XBR970. It has one HDMI port. I will pick up a HDcable box from Time Warner today with, they tell me, an HDMI port there. I also need to buy a progressive scan DVD player. For a few more bucks I am told that I should get one with an HDMI port that "upconverts" to a higher resolution. Cheap suggestions anyone? SOOOO what should I do for the connections? Cable box to TV? DVD player to TV? Can I "split" an HDMI cable? I watch broadcast TV mostly but really want to get the best DVD playback that I can? Suggestions? One more question: I am sure that I have goofed up the picture settings. Everything looks really contrast-y with hot reds and deep too-dark blacks etc. Any suggestions on how to reset the picture settings to just a plain normal? LOL Whew, thanks for your patience, I am older than dirt and this stuff is new as a baby for me!

11-07-2006, 09:21 PM	#86
MitchieA compile time error Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 64	Based on consumer reports ratings, it appears that LCDs offer better SD reproduction than their plasma counterparts. Not a single plasma set rated scored better than a "Good" rating for SD PQ whereas roughly half of the LCDs scored a "Very Good". Food for thought.

11-12-2006, 10:50 AM	#87
Baus My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 8	rbinck, Great post - it is helpful but sometimes you get beyond me with teck terms. cracker asked the question I have. I have a Sony 60" rear projection and use Direct TV - So should I (1) split the coax cable out of the wall and run one to HD box and one to TV? If yes, do I need to do anything when watching HD vs. SD? like a switch or something???? Thanks