First time buying an HDTV could use advice

NateDogX · 11-23-2005, 09:26 PM

Despite the obvious newbie-ism that the topic might indicate I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about the HDTV market, mainly thanks to my background in videogames.

Now that the Xbox 360 has launched and Microsoft has dubbed this the beginning of the "HD Era" I may as well join in.

I'm looking to spend between 700 and 1000 bucks on a nice, well suited HDTV for my bedroom (my gaming sanctuary) around 25-40 inches. Obviously the highest quality picture and feature set is preferable. I've been looking around Samsung's website and found this line of television but wasn't sure if this was the best there is. I'm not looking to make my purchase until February so there's plenty of time here folks.

Any help or advice that you guys could give me would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Webby_s · 11-24-2005, 12:02 AM

That line of SlimFit has been catching my eye also. I like the price for the size and being CRT, it is known to have good refresh rates for fast motion. (in movies and video games we need this) I was looking for this for our bedroom but space is limited so I am debating between this and LCD.

I have read some reviews out there and have seen good things about the SlimFit, so check it out, see if you can find one in a store and mess around with the settings.

Obviously with your budget (700 to 1000) you are limited, and rightfully so. It isn't cheap. So a CRT is probably in your best interest and since you have stated that you have a fairly good knowledge then you know that CRT's have been proven best at motion and black levels. I for one have not seen a tubed CRT in the wild. So I am bias in my DLP world.

I also can't speak for the 360 since I don't have one but they seem to be top notch in there HD capabillities. The only sad thing is I have heard of is the crashing problems, (360 crashing)
This post has gone to far ... Good luck and I know there are many other knowledgable minds that will chime in on the topic

Edit: Welcome to the boards!

NateDogX · 11-24-2005, 09:25 AM

Thanks for the advice. I'm jealous of your DLP set, a buddy of mine just picked up a massive Samsung DLP and it blows everything else out of the water. Obviously for my space and monetary restrictions I'd be fine getting a CRT. The SlimFit seems to have everything I need a set, and at 30 inches it seems to be a solid size.

I do have another questions however. Something that has always confused me with HDTVs and gaming is the native resolution of the set. Now, the SlimFit sets that I've been looking at have a native resolution of 1080i. Does that mean that I will have escaped any upscaling issues that I've heard about with other sets? 360 games all support 720p but I'd much rather be able to purchase a set that can do both 720p and 1080i the most justice possible.

If anyone else has any suggestions, don't hesitate. Thanks again! And Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

RSawdey · 11-24-2005, 05:19 PM

All consumer CRT based HDTVs are 1080i/30 native res, there are NO HDTVs that are multisync to actually display both 1080i and 720p. A 1080i set will format convert 720p to 1080i for display - at the slow 30 fps framerate of interlaced sets instead of the doubled rate of 60 Hz used with 720p progressive scan sets.

It's the 720p sets that handle motion better because of their faster framerate and progressive presentation. I always recommend progressive sets for Gaming and PC use. All progressive technologies, except plasma, are also burn proof.

The shallow depth of the SlimFits has a cost in geometry... right & left edges have slightly elongated pixels due to the extreme angle with the electron beam. This makes the sides less sharp than the center. Scientific American had an interesting article on the technology last spring or early summer.

NateDogX · 11-25-2005, 10:12 AM

So what kind of quality difference is there from a 1080i set that scales the image to 720p to a set that is native 720p.

Any replacement recommendations rather than the slimfit?

NateDogX · 11-26-2005, 10:41 AM

Anyone else have any recommendations? It would be most appreciated.

**rbinck** · 11-26-2005, 12:17 PM

Within your budget CRTs are about the only choice. There are some LCD units that get down toward the $1000 range like this one:
http://secure.syntaxgroups.com/produ...sp?pid=LT32HVE
but you need to be careful with LCDs to get a fast responding unit. This one is a 8ms unit.

I know nothing about this unit and I am not recommending it. I just provide this as an alternative to a CRT. To get a TV that will accept a 720p/60fps input and display it native, you will need to get something other than a CRT TV.

NateDogX · 11-28-2005, 12:15 PM

How much of a difference are we talking between a TV that is native 1080i and scales to 720p to a TV that is native 720p?

fryet · 11-28-2005, 12:22 PM

720p/60 will have twice the frames of a 1080i/30. 30 frames is plenty for motion pictures (they are normally 24 frames per second), however for sports and video games, you will normally want to get as many frames per second as possible. Since you are getting this TV for the XBOX360, I would wait until you have the budget to get a true 720p set.

NateDogX · 11-28-2005, 01:09 PM

Yeah I agree, I guess I'll wait until I have the budget for a cheap 720p set. Any cheap recommendations for a native 720p at 60 frames per second? Thanks for the help!

**rbinck** · 11-28-2005, 01:48 PM

Just the one in message #7.

fryet · 11-28-2005, 05:51 PM

FYI - I am pretty sure that all sets that are 720p can do 60 fps. However, if the set also advertises that it can do 1080i resolution, then it will only be able to do 720p at 30 fps. It gets a bit confusing. All HD capable sets can handle inputs ranging from 1080 and below, however their native resolution differs. Any signal sent to them is them upscaled/downscaled to display on the TV's native resolution. For example, Let's take the 4 following TV sets:

a. 480p EDTV (what I personally own)
b. 720p
c. 1080i
d. 1080p

Let's say that all 4 TV's are sent a 720p signal from an XBOX360. Here is what each TV would do.

a. Downscale image to 480p/60
b. Display image at 720p/60
c. "Upscale" image to 1080i/30 (increasing resolution, but dropping frames)
d. Upscale image to 1080p/60.

NateDogX · 11-30-2005, 06:07 PM

Any recommendations for a native 720p set of fairly high quality? Obviously somewhere in the block of my original price range would be nice but I'm willing to go a bit higher if required.

NateDogX · 12-02-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateDogX

Any recommendations for a native 720p set of fairly high quality? Obviously somewhere in the block of my original price range would be nice but I'm willing to go a bit higher if required.

This set has recently caught my eye as a slightly more expensive alternative. What do you guys think? http://www2.butterflyphoto.com/shop/...&sku=HLR4667W#

fryet · 12-02-2005, 02:41 PM

That looks like a good TV set to me.

11-23-2005, 09:26 PM	#1
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	First time buying an HDTV could use advice Despite the obvious newbie-ism that the topic might indicate I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about the HDTV market, mainly thanks to my background in videogames. Now that the Xbox 360 has launched and Microsoft has dubbed this the beginning of the "HD Era" I may as well join in. I'm looking to spend between 700 and 1000 bucks on a nice, well suited HDTV for my bedroom (my gaming sanctuary) around 25-40 inches. Obviously the highest quality picture and feature set is preferable. I've been looking around Samsung's website and found this line of television but wasn't sure if this was the best there is. I'm not looking to make my purchase until February so there's plenty of time here folks. Any help or advice that you guys could give me would be most appreciated. Thanks!

11-24-2005, 12:02 AM	#2
Webby_s Panasonic 50" DLP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester, MN Age: 29 Posts: 133	That line of SlimFit has been catching my eye also. I like the price for the size and being CRT, it is known to have good refresh rates for fast motion. (in movies and video games we need this) I was looking for this for our bedroom but space is limited so I am debating between this and LCD. I have read some reviews out there and have seen good things about the SlimFit, so check it out, see if you can find one in a store and mess around with the settings. Obviously with your budget (700 to 1000) you are limited, and rightfully so. It isn't cheap. So a CRT is probably in your best interest and since you have stated that you have a fairly good knowledge then you know that CRT's have been proven best at motion and black levels. I for one have not seen a tubed CRT in the wild. So I am bias in my DLP world. I also can't speak for the 360 since I don't have one but they seem to be top notch in there HD capabillities. The only sad thing is I have heard of is the crashing problems, (360 crashing) This post has gone to far ... Good luck and I know there are many other knowledgable minds that will chime in on the topic Edit: Welcome to the boards! __________________ Drink tonight for tomorrow we drink again. Charter Comm., Moxi DVR Panny 50" DLP Phillips 32" LCD As of 11-5: 16 HD Channels

11-28-2005, 01:48 PM	#11
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	Just the one in message #7. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

11-24-2005, 09:25 AM	#3
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	Thanks for the advice. I'm jealous of your DLP set, a buddy of mine just picked up a massive Samsung DLP and it blows everything else out of the water. Obviously for my space and monetary restrictions I'd be fine getting a CRT. The SlimFit seems to have everything I need a set, and at 30 inches it seems to be a solid size. I do have another questions however. Something that has always confused me with HDTVs and gaming is the native resolution of the set. Now, the SlimFit sets that I've been looking at have a native resolution of 1080i. Does that mean that I will have escaped any upscaling issues that I've heard about with other sets? 360 games all support 720p but I'd much rather be able to purchase a set that can do both 720p and 1080i the most justice possible. If anyone else has any suggestions, don't hesitate. Thanks again! And Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

11-24-2005, 05:19 PM	#4
RSawdey Mr. Wizard Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ferndale, Michigan Age: 61 Posts: 5,981	All consumer CRT based HDTVs are 1080i/30 native res, there are NO HDTVs that are multisync to actually display both 1080i and 720p. A 1080i set will format convert 720p to 1080i for display - at the slow 30 fps framerate of interlaced sets instead of the doubled rate of 60 Hz used with 720p progressive scan sets. It's the 720p sets that handle motion better because of their faster framerate and progressive presentation. I always recommend progressive sets for Gaming and PC use. All progressive technologies, except plasma, are also burn proof. The shallow depth of the SlimFits has a cost in geometry... right & left edges have slightly elongated pixels due to the extreme angle with the electron beam. This makes the sides less sharp than the center. Scientific American had an interesting article on the technology last spring or early summer.

11-25-2005, 10:12 AM	#5
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	So what kind of quality difference is there from a 1080i set that scales the image to 720p to a set that is native 720p. Any replacement recommendations rather than the slimfit?

11-26-2005, 10:41 AM	#6
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	Anyone else have any recommendations? It would be most appreciated.

11-26-2005, 12:17 PM	#7
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	Within your budget CRTs are about the only choice. There are some LCD units that get down toward the $1000 range like this one: http://secure.syntaxgroups.com/produ...sp?pid=LT32HVE but you need to be careful with LCDs to get a fast responding unit. This one is a 8ms unit. I know nothing about this unit and I am not recommending it. I just provide this as an alternative to a CRT. To get a TV that will accept a 720p/60fps input and display it native, you will need to get something other than a CRT TV. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

11-28-2005, 12:15 PM	#8
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	How much of a difference are we talking between a TV that is native 1080i and scales to 720p to a TV that is native 720p?

11-28-2005, 12:22 PM	#9
fryet High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Age: 38 Posts: 632	720p/60 will have twice the frames of a 1080i/30. 30 frames is plenty for motion pictures (they are normally 24 frames per second), however for sports and video games, you will normally want to get as many frames per second as possible. Since you are getting this TV for the XBOX360, I would wait until you have the budget to get a true 720p set.

11-28-2005, 01:09 PM	#10
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	Yeah I agree, I guess I'll wait until I have the budget for a cheap 720p set. Any cheap recommendations for a native 720p at 60 frames per second? Thanks for the help!

11-28-2005, 05:51 PM	#12
fryet High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Age: 38 Posts: 632	FYI - I am pretty sure that all sets that are 720p can do 60 fps. However, if the set also advertises that it can do 1080i resolution, then it will only be able to do 720p at 30 fps. It gets a bit confusing. All HD capable sets can handle inputs ranging from 1080 and below, however their native resolution differs. Any signal sent to them is them upscaled/downscaled to display on the TV's native resolution. For example, Let's take the 4 following TV sets: a. 480p EDTV (what I personally own) b. 720p c. 1080i d. 1080p Let's say that all 4 TV's are sent a 720p signal from an XBOX360. Here is what each TV would do. a. Downscale image to 480p/60 b. Display image at 720p/60 c. "Upscale" image to 1080i/30 (increasing resolution, but dropping frames) d. Upscale image to 1080p/60.

11-30-2005, 06:07 PM	#13
NateDogX My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8	Any recommendations for a native 720p set of fairly high quality? Obviously somewhere in the block of my original price range would be nice but I'm willing to go a bit higher if required.

12-02-2005, 02:41 PM	#15
fryet High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Age: 38 Posts: 632	That looks like a good TV set to me.