Power Conditioner - Voltage Regulator - Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS)

rightbryce · 09-13-2009, 10:21 PM

Hi. I recently discovered that i have a power problem. I have a home theater PC setup, and I recently discovered that I see a brief instance of interference on the TV when we turn on or off a device (ceiling fan, lights switch) within the home.

After ruling out the possibility of this being an antenna or reception problem I have discovered the issue is likely do to the fact that when there is a spike or dip in power when a device is turned on or off in the house - resulting in a brief pop in the audio or pixelation on the TV.

I am researching power conditioner, voltage regulators or Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) devices which I am told would clean up the power and provide constant voltage so as to avoid the spikes and dips in power -- resulting in no TV interference when devices are turned on or off.

Other options I am also researching are putting in a home run for my A/V system. (A new, dedicated line from the service panel.). Also, checking my main ground, wherever that is (no idea how I will find that out).

Am I on the right track? Do any of you use such devices? Can you recommend something affordable that you have had success with?

Thanks in advance.

Loves2Watch · 09-13-2009, 10:45 PM

I believe that running a dedicated circuit (home run) for your HT system would be the best solution. The electrician who does this can also check your ground and do what's needed if it isn't sufficient.

rightbryce · 09-14-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

I believe that running a dedicated circuit (home run) for your HT system would be the best solution. The electrician who does this can also check your ground and do what's needed if it isn't sufficient.

An electrician came out today and looked at my setup. He said a dedicated circuit my help a little, but it wouldn't fix the problem. The reason is that the interference on the TV occurs when any device in the house is turned on or off, not just devices plugged into the same wired circuit as the TV.

He recommends a power conditioner or voltage regulator for that particular TV outlet.

I'm strongly considering getting this APC Voltage regulator:
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=LE1200

$50 price, with great reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-120...pr_product_top

Scottnot · 09-15-2009, 07:59 AM

I strongly doubt that the product you're looking at will solve your problem.
Main reason is that the response time of the product may not be fast enough to mask the problem.

It sounds like your house has older service (perhaps 60 A) but with lot of new circuits added over the years and that you are running near the limit of your service panel.

Certaily, for $50, try the APC to see if there is any change.
But the long term solution is likely to be some updated wiring and perhaps a new service panel.

gwhoughton · 09-15-2009, 09:01 AM

I have a Belkin @ home on my PC... Not sure of the model, but it definately has power conditioning so that I don't get spikes or "brown-outs" w/low voltage.

I'm posative it was more than $50 bucks though! More like $200-$300 or so I'm sure. Can't remember.

Anyway, that is what I would reccomend. Don't go cheap on that component!

rightbryce · 09-15-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

...It sounds like your house has older service (perhaps 60 A) but with lot of new circuits added over the years and that you are running near the limit of your service panel...

My house was built in 2005.

rightbryce · 09-15-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwhoughton

I have a Belkin @ home on my PC... Not sure of the model, but it definately has power conditioning so that I don't get spikes or "brown-outs" w/low voltage.

I'm posative it was more than $50 bucks though! More like $200-$300 or so I'm sure. Can't remember.

Anyway, that is what I would reccomend. Don't go cheap on that component!

Yes, the more I have looked into it, I need one that outputs more watts to run all my A/V equipment -- so that would put me in a higher price range, as you suggest.

newtoneus · 09-15-2009, 09:17 AM

From what you said, it sounds like your problem is conducted emmissions along your power cables. The APC voltage regulator probably wont do anything for you unless it contains some good EMC filtering and at $50 it probably wont. You've probably got some grounding issues and the best way I know to get round this is to use a power conditioner that contains a low impedance power conditioner. Manufacturers in US include Oneac and Powervar both based near Chiacgo. Look these up to find a distributor.

What the power conditioner does is eliminate common mode noise problems (this is on the earth conductor) by reconnecting the neutral and earth conductor in a code-legal fashion (the use of the isolation transformer), and also provides a handy earth reference point where you can bond all connected equipment to thereby ensuring all your equipment shares the same earth potential.

There commonly used in retail environments that suffer from similar noise problems as they are far cheaper than the normal solution of installing a dedicated circuit.

You need to choose a size that will power all your attached equipment, which is probably only an issue if you've got a high powered amp or so. For your TV a 500W should do just right.

If you speak nice to Powervar they may even allow you one to try to see if it works first on a sale or return.

rightbryce · 09-15-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoneus

...The APC voltage regulator probably wont do anything for you unless it contains some good EMC filtering and at $50 it probably wont...

I have never seen specs for EMC, but I have for EMI. Is there a difference? For example, the above mentioned regulator does "EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 MHz) - 55 dB.

What is the difference between a power conditioner and a Uninterruptible Power Supply? Can you recommend one over the other? Or are they the same?

Also, I have hooked up surge protectors that indicate whether there is a problem with the ground and there is not. Is that trustworthy?

Scottnot · 09-15-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightbryce

My house was built in 2005.

Yes, but, if you are experiencing "a brief instance of interference on the TV" when you turn on or off a device (ceiling fan, lights switch) within the home, something else is wrong with your electrical supply or service.

Turning on a light switch should simply not cause any interference with a well wired home (even if the light is on the same circuit as the TV).

Perhaps one of these products can "mask" the problem (perhaps not), but something else is "wrong" or incorrect in the house wiring, and that should be determined first.

Loves2Watch · 09-15-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

Yes, but, if you are experiencing "a brief instance of interference on the TV" when you turn on or off a device (ceiling fan, lights switch) within the home, something else is wrong with your electrical supply or service.

Turning on a light switch should simply not cause any interference with a well wired home (even if the light is on the same circuit as the TV).

Perhaps one of these products can "mask" the problem (perhaps not), but something else is "wrong" or incorrect in the house wiring, and that should be determined first.

Exactly and which is why I recommended a professional electrician look at it. Seems another electrician is in order...

Scottnot · 09-15-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

Seems another electrician is in order...

Agreed . . . seems so indeed.

gwhoughton · 09-16-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightbryce

...What is the difference between a power conditioner and a Uninterruptible Power Supply? Can you recommend one over the other? Or are they the same??

Not the same... A UPS just assures that your equipment will keep running for "X" amount of time if the main power fails.

A power conditioner will assure that the voltage coming out of the unit is always at a constant level & will not "spike" or "dip" or fluctuate in any other way.

I'm sure if you go to a reputable site like a Belkin, etc., they will have a good explanation there.

**PFC5** · 09-16-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottnot

Yes, but, if you are experiencing "a brief instance of interference on the TV" when you turn on or off a device (ceiling fan, lights switch) within the home, something else is wrong with your electrical supply or service.

Turning on a light switch should simply not cause any interference with a well wired home (even if the light is on the same circuit as the TV).

Perhaps one of these products can "mask" the problem (perhaps not), but something else is "wrong" or incorrect in the house wiring, and that should be determined first.

Exactly. I am not an electrician, but I do know that this is NOT normal and does not happen in my house. Oh, and I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Seriously though. Something is definitely wrong with how they did the electrical system on that house and the OP needs to get an electrician who is on top of his game on the code and such issues.

mobiushky · 09-16-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Exactly. I am not an electrician, but I do know that this is NOT normal and does not happen in my house. Oh, and I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Seriously though. Something is definitely wrong with how they did the electrical system on that house and the OP needs to get an electrician who is on top of his game on the code and such issues.

I've seen something similar to this in a production facility. They were suffering from some weird problems with flickering lights and other problems they couldn't explain. Initially we suspected an RF welder was the problem. So we took waveforms and measurements on the welder during operation. As a routine part of the study, I suggested we check the various panels throughout the building. We came to one panel that was used to power many of the lights and receptacles in the storefront area and the offices. Asked the electrician with me to check the ground and neutral connections and the neutral was barely tightened. As he tightened it the lights and equipment around us flickered and sputtered.

I suspect that was their biggest issue was a loose neutral connection. It's not unheard of to have loose terminals in panels that either were forgotten or loosened over time. The RF welder was also moved to a separate feed and fed from an isolation transformer to isolate the noise it created from the rest of the system. Grounding is a surprisingly common culprit in cases like this.

09-13-2009, 10:21 PM	#1
rightbryce High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 31	Power Conditioner - Voltage Regulator - Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) Hi. I recently discovered that i have a power problem. I have a home theater PC setup, and I recently discovered that I see a brief instance of interference on the TV when we turn on or off a device (ceiling fan, lights switch) within the home. After ruling out the possibility of this being an antenna or reception problem I have discovered the issue is likely do to the fact that when there is a spike or dip in power when a device is turned on or off in the house - resulting in a brief pop in the audio or pixelation on the TV. I am researching power conditioner, voltage regulators or Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) devices which I am told would clean up the power and provide constant voltage so as to avoid the spikes and dips in power -- resulting in no TV interference when devices are turned on or off. Other options I am also researching are putting in a home run for my A/V system. (A new, dedicated line from the service panel.). Also, checking my main ground, wherever that is (no idea how I will find that out). Am I on the right track? Do any of you use such devices? Can you recommend something affordable that you have had success with? Thanks in advance.

09-13-2009, 10:45 PM	#2
Loves2Watch SPAM Police Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: AZ, NM, TX, MX Posts: 13,972	I believe that running a dedicated circuit (home run) for your HT system would be the best solution. The electrician who does this can also check your ground and do what's needed if it isn't sufficient. __________________ Theater 1 - Panasonic TH-85PF12U Plasma TV, 6 Conrad Johnson LP275M Amps, Anthem Statement D-2 Pre/Pro, 6 Thiel SCS4 Speakers, 2 REL T-1 Subs, Infinity Interlude 120S Sub, Simaudio MOON Orbiter Universal Disc Player, ELP Laser Turntable, 2 Dish Network ViP 622 DVR's, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player.

09-15-2009, 07:59 AM	#4
Scottnot Progress Not Perfection Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,022	I strongly doubt that the product you're looking at will solve your problem. Main reason is that the response time of the product may not be fast enough to mask the problem. It sounds like your house has older service (perhaps 60 A) but with lot of new circuits added over the years and that you are running near the limit of your service panel. Certaily, for $50, try the APC to see if there is any change. But the long term solution is likely to be some updated wiring and perhaps a new service panel. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Charles Krug, 1978 Vintage Selection, Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Beringer, 1980, Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Port Morano, 1980 Vintage Port Beaulieu Vinyards, 1982 Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Stratford, 1983 Merlot Chateau La France, 1986 St. Emilion Sutter Home, 1982 Napa Valley Zinfandel The lonesome sipper

09-15-2009, 09:01 AM	#5
gwhoughton NHL in HD please!!! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Fernando Valley, CA Posts: 1,132	Belkin... I have a Belkin @ home on my PC... Not sure of the model, but it definately has power conditioning so that I don't get spikes or "brown-outs" w/low voltage. I'm posative it was more than $50 bucks though! More like $200-$300 or so I'm sure. Can't remember. Anyway, that is what I would reccomend. Don't go cheap on that component! __________________ Switched to HD 2-2005 SONY KD-34XBR960

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09-15-2009, 09:17 AM	#8
newtoneus Power Inspired - UPS Pros Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1	From what you said, it sounds like your problem is conducted emmissions along your power cables. The APC voltage regulator probably wont do anything for you unless it contains some good EMC filtering and at $50 it probably wont. You've probably got some grounding issues and the best way I know to get round this is to use a power conditioner that contains a low impedance power conditioner. Manufacturers in US include Oneac and Powervar both based near Chiacgo. Look these up to find a distributor. What the power conditioner does is eliminate common mode noise problems (this is on the earth conductor) by reconnecting the neutral and earth conductor in a code-legal fashion (the use of the isolation transformer), and also provides a handy earth reference point where you can bond all connected equipment to thereby ensuring all your equipment shares the same earth potential. There commonly used in retail environments that suffer from similar noise problems as they are far cheaper than the normal solution of installing a dedicated circuit. You need to choose a size that will power all your attached equipment, which is probably only an issue if you've got a high powered amp or so. For your TV a 500W should do just right. If you speak nice to Powervar they may even allow you one to try to see if it works first on a sale or return.