High definition footage, AV output and SD DVD recording

boldandfunny · 10-21-2009, 09:53 AM

Hi,
I want to record in HD but burn to a normal SD DVD recorder (in SD) - at the moment - mostly for friends etc using camcorder's AV output.

Some people here are saying that (at least for some HD cmacorders) AV output will have normal SD signal on it while playing HD recorded material (so it somehow downscales it internally?), so my old DVD recorder will be able to record it as normal.

1.Is this true for most HD camcorders?
2.If not - can anyone confirm if this is true for not-very expensive models such as Sony SR10,11 and similar Canon JVC Panasonic (say under £550).

I looked at Sony SR 12 manual and it seems to imply that this is correct?
Thanks!

acgold7 · 10-21-2009, 01:10 PM

Yes, the AV (composite) output is always SD.

boldandfunny · 10-25-2009, 10:56 AM

Thanks acgold7!
I guess AV standard means SD and there is no such thing as hi-def AV at all?

I noticed you have a few Sony camcorders - how about my other question in this forum about using HiDef camcorders for indoor sports?
Do you by any chance have any experience of that?

Or even filming outdoor - does fast pan work just fine with your HD camcorders -e.g. is pan quit smooth on all resolutions for you?
And filming fast moving sports - hopefully it is all very smooth?

Just a bit worried about how this new MPEG 4 compression works in fast and hard conditions.

Thanks again
Sergei.

acgold7 · 10-25-2009, 11:36 AM

I do mostly outdoor sports shooting but have never had any problems -- compression, CMOS Skew or otherwise -- form fast pans, crash zooms or any kind of fast action.

The big problems indoors are low light and horrible white balance issues. Get those handled and you're good to go.

boldandfunny · 10-25-2009, 04:07 PM

Thanks again Adam,
this is really reassuring.

I think I was scared to death :-) by those Youtube 'HD' streamed(!) videos - they are streamed at 12-16 fps to my box and look horrible.

I found (at last - should have looked ages ago!) the "High Definition Movies & Video Clips" forum here and downloaded several rally videos to avoid streaming. They are @1080p (I presume 25/30 fps) and look very smooth.

1)I guess for shooting basketball indoors I will be quit happy with 720P (may be @60 fps - if light allows) and this will be very smooth I understand (even 30 fps). Would you agree?

2)Eveyone says that 1080i is not very smooth, so next speed up for me is really 1080P @25/30 fps which should be at least as smooth as SD TV which is 50fps interlaced I believe.
Did I get it right?

3)Also I understand 1080P 25/30 fps will actually work better for low light then 1080i because exposure can be twice longer (but loosing detail on fast moving objects). Is this correct?

Thanks again
Sergei.

acgold7 · 10-26-2009, 02:58 PM

1) No, anything at 30 progressive frames will be LESS smooth than anything at 60 interlaced frames. 60 pictures per second, even at half resolution, will always be smoother.
2) No. Everyone's a dope. See #1.
3) Yes.

I assume you're in PAL territory, as you refer to 25 and 50. Please put your location in your profile so we can help you better.

10-21-2009, 01:10 PM	#2
acgold7 I'll never go back to SD Join Date: May 2006 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 524	Yes, the AV (composite) output is always SD. __________________ Adam Proud owner of 8, no, 7, no, wait, now NINE Sony HDV cams. Somebody please help me! "There are no experimental failures. There's only more data."

10-25-2009, 10:56 AM	#3
boldandfunny My TV is HD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: UK Posts: 6	Thanks and sports question Thanks acgold7! I guess AV standard means SD and there is no such thing as hi-def AV at all? I noticed you have a few Sony camcorders - how about my other question in this forum about using HiDef camcorders for indoor sports? Do you by any chance have any experience of that? Or even filming outdoor - does fast pan work just fine with your HD camcorders -e.g. is pan quit smooth on all resolutions for you? And filming fast moving sports - hopefully it is all very smooth? Just a bit worried about how this new MPEG 4 compression works in fast and hard conditions. Thanks again Sergei.

10-25-2009, 11:36 AM	#4
acgold7 I'll never go back to SD Join Date: May 2006 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 524	I do mostly outdoor sports shooting but have never had any problems -- compression, CMOS Skew or otherwise -- form fast pans, crash zooms or any kind of fast action. The big problems indoors are low light and horrible white balance issues. Get those handled and you're good to go. __________________ Adam Proud owner of 8, no, 7, no, wait, now NINE Sony HDV cams. Somebody please help me! "There are no experimental failures. There's only more data."

10-25-2009, 04:07 PM	#5
boldandfunny My TV is HD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: UK Posts: 6	Thanks! 720P? Thanks again Adam, this is really reassuring. I think I was scared to death :-) by those Youtube 'HD' streamed(!) videos - they are streamed at 12-16 fps to my box and look horrible. I found (at last - should have looked ages ago!) the "High Definition Movies & Video Clips" forum here and downloaded several rally videos to avoid streaming. They are @1080p (I presume 25/30 fps) and look very smooth. 1)I guess for shooting basketball indoors I will be quit happy with 720P (may be @60 fps - if light allows) and this will be very smooth I understand (even 30 fps). Would you agree? 2)Eveyone says that 1080i is not very smooth, so next speed up for me is really 1080P @25/30 fps which should be at least as smooth as SD TV which is 50fps interlaced I believe. Did I get it right? 3)Also I understand 1080P 25/30 fps will actually work better for low light then 1080i because exposure can be twice longer (but loosing detail on fast moving objects). Is this correct? Thanks again Sergei.

10-26-2009, 02:58 PM	#6
acgold7 I'll never go back to SD Join Date: May 2006 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 524	1) No, anything at 30 progressive frames will be LESS smooth than anything at 60 interlaced frames. 60 pictures per second, even at half resolution, will always be smoother. 2) No. Everyone's a dope. See #1. 3) Yes. I assume you're in PAL territory, as you refer to 25 and 50. Please put your location in your profile so we can help you better. __________________ Adam Proud owner of 8, no, 7, no, wait, now NINE Sony HDV cams. Somebody please help me! "There are no experimental failures. There's only more data."

10-21-2009, 09:53 AM	#1
boldandfunny My TV is HD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: UK Posts: 6	High definition footage, AV output and SD DVD recording Hi, I want to record in HD but burn to a normal SD DVD recorder (in SD) - at the moment - mostly for friends etc using camcorder's AV output. Some people here are saying that (at least for some HD cmacorders) AV output will have normal SD signal on it while playing HD recorded material (so it somehow downscales it internally?), so my old DVD recorder will be able to record it as normal. 1.Is this true for most HD camcorders? 2.If not - can anyone confirm if this is true for not-very expensive models such as Sony SR10,11 and similar Canon JVC Panasonic (say under £550). I looked at Sony SR 12 manual and it seems to imply that this is correct? Thanks!