Do you want HD-DVD Back or Not

Chris Gerhard · 10-12-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bra1234

In a word Yes....choice makes a marketplace, improper marketing and slander adds were part of the demise.

Slander adds? What does that mean? The demise was brought about because there was one manufacturer of HD DVD players and not much software support. The format didn't do what consumers or the industry wanted and as a result it was doomed to tiny niche status or extinction from the start.

Chris

Ruffrob · 10-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick F
I'm glad the HD-DVD format has your vote. Too bad this is BUSINESS and not an election

Opinions,opinions,you know what they say about those,right Rick...

Anyway,given the sheer number of people still lamenting this format,i still feel there could be a resurgence. Don't think there was a lot of lament 18 months after VHS won. Couldn't give my Betamax away..

kbaker2002de · 10-14-2009, 09:55 AM

Given that I am still using my HD-A2 exclusively and have not taken the BD plunge, I would like to see new films on HD DVD. But it won't happen. I had a set up ready with a new BD Player and a new receiver, but life happened and both went back, first a pay cut then a second kid.

I would agree that I would rather see Tosh deliver a dual capable player at a good price, but will not hold my breath.

Rick-F · 10-14-2009, 10:46 AM

Heck, I want Ronald Regan back too . . . he probably will come back with HD-DVD.

Blazer · 10-14-2009, 11:12 AM

im not so sure its dead as i still see people buying HD movies over bd, and the rental stores dont even carry them as no one wants to rent em, or even buy em at the price bd sell for, most folks dont even have a bd player and have no intention of buying one at the price they sell for, looks to me that bd may be dead very soon.

daleb · 10-14-2009, 01:08 PM

It may not grow very fast because of cost, etc., but HD is a real advantage although fewer people can appreciate the advantage of lossless audio. Renting them is no problem, buying them is expensive. More and more people rent these days, I suspect.

Considering all the studio support for BD, it is far from dead unless a medium presents itself with the same advantages for less money. Streaming is trying to be that competition, but still has a ways to go.

Chris Gerhard · 10-14-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruffrob

Opinions,opinions,you know what they say about those,right Rick...

Anyway,given the sheer number of people still lamenting this format,i still feel there could be a resurgence. Don't think there was a lot of lament 18 months after VHS won. Couldn't give my Betamax away..

Sony continued to make Beta VCR's until around 2001. There were millions of Beta VCR's sold and almost all studios and many rental stores supported the format for a few years until the mid 80's. It was actually profitable for Sony as prices held firm for the niche market that existed a couple of decades. I personally bought 350 Sony SL-HF750 Beta VCR's and sold them in 1995 and 1996. It was profitable, I made about $10,000. Considering the time it took me to inspect and repair when needed, it wasn't a great hourly rate but worth my time. I ran ads on the recvideo newsgroups, Compuserve, AOL and other online sites.

There wasn't a similar demand for HD DVD, prices hit rock bottom immediately and have stayed there so I wasn't about to attempt the same with that format.

Chris

**bruceames** · 10-15-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Sony continued to make Beta VCR's until around 2001. There were millions of Beta VCR's sold and almost all studios and many rental stores supported the format for a few years until the mid 80's. It was actually profitable for Sony as prices held firm for the niche market that existed a couple of decades. I personally bought 350 Sony SL-HF750 Beta VCR's and sold them in 1995 and 1996. It was profitable, I made about $10,000. Considering the time it took me to inspect and repair when needed, it wasn't a great hourly rate but worth my time. I ran ads on the recvideo newsgroups, Compuserve, AOL and other online sites.

There wasn't a similar demand for HD DVD, prices hit rock bottom immediately and have stayed there so I wasn't about to attempt the same with that format.

Chris

Obviously you have a soft spot for dead formats.

There could be more demand down the road for HD DVD players, given that the studios (especially Universal) printed up more copies than were thought to exist, and that the format will have exclusive HD titles for longer than what was previously assumed. After next Tuesday, for the first time since Toshiba capitulated, there will be no more "catch up" titles scheduled to be released. Universal is obviously not interested in getting all their HD DVD titles out on BD, in order to appease a handful of purple fans.

Vortex3D · 10-15-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Sony continued to make Beta VCR's until around 2001. There were millions of Beta VCR's sold and almost all studios and many rental stores supported the format for a few years until the mid 80's. It was actually profitable for Sony as prices held firm for the niche market that existed a couple of decades. I personally bought 350 Sony SL-HF750 Beta VCR's and sold them in 1995 and 1996. It was profitable, I made about $10,000. Considering the time it took me to inspect and repair when needed, it wasn't a great hourly rate but worth my time. I ran ads on the recvideo newsgroups, Compuserve, AOL and other online sites.

There wasn't a similar demand for HD DVD, prices hit rock bottom immediately and have stayed there so I wasn't about to attempt the same with that format.

Chris

Beta had better picture quality than VHS and there was a reason to continue using Beta tapes after VHS won the format. Movies that came out on both Blu-ray and HD DVD had same picture quality. Today's Blu-ray movies, most have better audio encoding like DTS Master that wasn't used on HD DVD because of disc space. With the market today, movie studios and stores don't want to deal with the dead HD DVD format just because there are HD DVD fans. It's simply not profitable. Having DVD competing with Blu-ray is enough.

I have both Blu-ray and HD DVD movies and Blu-ray is a much more superior technology in the long team. I like the scratch resistance on Blu-ray disc.

The only reason many HD DVD fans like the format is it's not made by Sony and it doesn't have region lock. The lower HD DVD disc manufacturing cost is meaningless to movie studios. A lot of 2 or 3 discs Blu-ray movies could have been easily done on 1 disc but having multiple discs look great for advertising like more discs are more for the money.

I'm for one glad Blu-ray won the format war. I buy the movie to watch it and can care less who made the technology.

At least HD DVD technology lives on CBHD players.

Loves2Watch · 10-15-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vortex3D

Today's Blu-ray movies, most have better audio encoding like DTS Master that wasn't used on HD DVD because of disc space.

But I have many HD DVD movies that are Dolby True HD and believe me that's just as good as DTS MA...

Vortex3D · 10-16-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

But I have many HD DVD movies that are Dolby True HD and believe me that's just as good as DTS MA...

If you have TruDolby and DTS MA capable sound receiver, they are very similar quality. For regular DD and DTS sound receiver owners, DTS MA is better because it still provides DTS 1.5Mb audio while TruDolby provides only DD 640Kb audio. Blu-ray extra disk capacity makes it more flexible for movie studios to use Uncompressed PCM, DTS Master or TruDolby. For a long movie, it's much easier to fit on Blu-ray with DTS Master or TruDolby.

The only future for HD DVD fans is go with CBHD.

Chris Gerhard · 10-16-2009, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

Obviously you have a soft spot for dead formats.

There could be more demand down the road for HD DVD players, given that the studios (especially Universal) printed up more copies than were thought to exist, and that the format will have exclusive HD titles for longer than what was previously assumed. After next Tuesday, for the first time since Toshiba capitulated, there will be no more "catch up" titles scheduled to be released. Universal is obviously not interested in getting all their HD DVD titles out on BD, in order to appease a handful of purple fans.

Beta was never dead during the life of analog VCR's since blank tape was still made and it recorded NTSC video. Recording was always the primary use for a VCR in my household.

Despite the fact HD titles exclusive to HD DVD will continue for some time, HD DVD is dead. No players, no software and unless I am mistaken, no blank media is being manufactured for use by consumers. I know the exception HD DVD release, a joke release about zombies rising is supposedly coming next month but I won't count that as keeping the format alive or as resurrecting the format.

Right now, HD DVD hardware and software prices are so low because supply exceeds demand and demand will continue to decline. It may be possible a couple of selected models will have value in the future, that mostly depends on how well the players in service hold up. It isn't the purple fan that wants Universal and the other studios to release their exclusive HD DVD titles on Blu, it is the Blu fan. Us purple people already own the films in that status wanted. I want all of the studios to focus on doing better with catalog titles that haven't been released yet in HD and worry about catching up with already released titles sometime in the future.

Chris

**bruceames** · 10-16-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Beta was never dead during the life of analog VCR's since blank tape was still made and it recorded NTSC video. Recording was always the primary use for a VCR in my household.

Despite the fact HD titles exclusive to HD DVD will continue for some time, HD DVD is dead. No players, no software and unless I am mistaken, no blank media is being manufactured for use by consumers. I know the exception HD DVD release, a joke release about zombies rising is supposedly coming next month but I won't count that as keeping the format alive or as resurrecting the format.

Right now, HD DVD hardware and software prices are so low because supply exceeds demand and demand will continue to decline. It may be possible a couple of selected models will have value in the future, that mostly depends on how well the players in service hold up. It isn't the purple fan that wants Universal and the other studios to release their exclusive HD DVD titles on Blu, it is the Blu fan. Us purple people already own the films in that status wanted. I want all of the studios to focus on doing better with catalog titles that haven't been released yet in HD and worry about catching up with already released titles sometime in the future.

Chris

I meant the former purple owners who probably still have the HD DVDs (or recently sold them) and are waiting for them to come out on Blu-ray. Anyway, I think they are getting tired of waiting. Of course Blu-ray fans want to see them out in HD, either because they like them or sometimes because they don't want HD DVD to have any relevance at all by having exclusives. In any case, like you I would rather they release their best catalogs first, and not worry about catching up. Most likely all they are worried about now is their bottom line, especially in this economy. Universal is really slowing their overall catalog release pace during the busiest time of the year, so it's probably the economy more than anything.

Being "dead" and being useful are two different things. A format that's one of the best out there in terms of PQ and having many exclusives is a desirable format to use in my opinion.

Chris Gerhard · 10-16-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

I meant the former purple owners who probably still have the HD DVDs (or recently sold them) and are waiting for them to come out on Blu-ray. Anyway, I think they are getting tired of waiting. Of course Blu-ray fans want to see them out in HD, either because they like them or sometimes because they don't want HD DVD to have any relevance at all by having exclusives. In any case, like you I would rather they release their best catalogs first, and not worry about catching up. Most likely all they are worried about now is their bottom line, especially in this economy. Universal is really slowing their overall catalog release pace during the busiest time of the year, so it's probably the economy more than anything.

Being "dead" and being useful are two different things. A format that's one of the best out there in terms of PQ and having many exclusives is a desirable format to use in my opinion.

I agree. I purchased zero HD DVD's new before Toshiba pulled the plug and have purchased about 200 or so new since the end and have a collection of over 300 titles now. I consider HD DVD the second best format I own but second best in a market that has room for one means little to the marketplace. I now own more HD DVD titles than either SACD or DVD-A although combined the two high resolution audio formats still outnumber HD DVD for me. There were over 5,000 SACD titles released but about 90% are of no interest to me and the few I want and don't have are too expensive.

I have hardware redundancy for all of those dead or dying formats, technically SACD and DVD-A are still alive since some software and hardware is being manufactured. I am now in the same position regarding SACD and DVD-A as I was with HD DVD, I refuse to buy any new releases. Not that that is very difficult, there are so few I want. I would buy the recent and upcoming King Crimson DVD-A releases and recent Porcupine Tree DVD-A release but I want Steve Wilson to get the message to move on to Blu-ray and leave DVD-A behind. As long as we have an rare DVD-A, a rare SACD and a few Blu-ray audio releases, nothing is going to become of the high resolution audio market. All companies need to get behind a single format for high resolution audio to find any market at all.

As I have said before, I don't see the value in downloading or streaming. TiVo just added Blockbuster downloads and I checked prices and I will stick with Blu-ray and DVD unless some plan that makes sense for me is offered. Netfix, Amazon, Jaman ad maybe one or two other services are available with my TiVo but I don't see value with those either. If I am still alive 20 years from now and can still see and hear well enough, I will be using Blu-ray, HD DVD, SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V and CD, that much I can guarantee.

Chris

daleb · 10-16-2009, 01:51 PM

As a freebie for NF subscribers, I find their streaming continuously improving. The last couple of HD moives I watched had very good PQ and not a glitch over the viewing time,

For now I find it an excellent option for movies with decent story lines or some comedies that don't need full surround to complete the presentation. Or old movies, or TV shows, etc.
And it is only a couple of clicks away.

If they ever get the audio up to the same level as they now have the video, I will certainly be accessing it even more.

10-14-2009, 09:55 AM	#48
kbaker2002de Even HD can be Reasonable Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bear, DE Posts: 540	Given that I am still using my HD-A2 exclusively and have not taken the BD plunge, I would like to see new films on HD DVD. But it won't happen. I had a set up ready with a new BD Player and a new receiver, but life happened and both went back, first a pay cut then a second kid. I would agree that I would rather see Tosh deliver a dual capable player at a good price, but will not hold my breath. __________________ Vizio GV42L Toshiba HD-A2 Motorla 6412 Harmony 676 Remote

10-14-2009, 01:08 PM	#51
daleb High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 7,351	It may not grow very fast because of cost, etc., but HD is a real advantage although fewer people can appreciate the advantage of lossless audio. Renting them is no problem, buying them is expensive. More and more people rent these days, I suspect. Considering all the studio support for BD, it is far from dead unless a medium presents itself with the same advantages for less money. Streaming is trying to be that competition, but still has a ways to go. __________________ Samsung PN50A650 plasma, Arcam AVR350, Dali Ikon6 (Vokal2&OnWalls), Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX sub, Anti-Mode 8033B, Oppo Digital BDP-83, Polk XM Tuner, Furman Elite power conditioner Last edited by daleb; 10-14-2009 at 01:58 PM.

10-16-2009, 01:51 PM	#60
daleb High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 7,351	As a freebie for NF subscribers, I find their streaming continuously improving. The last couple of HD moives I watched had very good PQ and not a glitch over the viewing time, For now I find it an excellent option for movies with decent story lines or some comedies that don't need full surround to complete the presentation. Or old movies, or TV shows, etc. And it is only a couple of clicks away. If they ever get the audio up to the same level as they now have the video, I will certainly be accessing it even more. __________________ Samsung PN50A650 plasma, Arcam AVR350, Dali Ikon6 (Vokal2&OnWalls), Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX sub, Anti-Mode 8033B, Oppo Digital BDP-83, Polk XM Tuner, Furman Elite power conditioner Last edited by daleb; 10-16-2009 at 02:12 PM.

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10-14-2009, 10:46 AM	#49
Rick-F 58" & 50" PDP / 2 32" LCD Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 1,560	Heck, I want Ronald Regan back too . . . he probably will come back with HD-DVD.

10-14-2009, 11:12 AM	#50
Blazer How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southern Ms Posts: 26	im not so sure its dead as i still see people buying HD movies over bd, and the rental stores dont even carry them as no one wants to rent em, or even buy em at the price bd sell for, most folks dont even have a bd player and have no intention of buying one at the price they sell for, looks to me that bd may be dead very soon.