Blockbuster announcement affecting HD DVD player sales.

BiggNewt · 06-19-2007, 04:40 PM

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on...les-270313.php

strawberry · 06-19-2007, 04:52 PM

Interesting find- I'm not slamming you for posting it Newt.

However, it's probably a good idea to let more than 1 day pass before we get to crazy about assessing the impact of BB's announcement on sales...

MikeRox · 06-19-2007, 04:54 PM

"tipster from an unnamed retailer" great source mate, and in under 48 hours. Maybe it was an unnamed Sony rep from a Sony Centre, they don't sell HD DVD, and they've had no cancellations, BUT 0 cancellations is the highest number they've ever had because they've never had any...

Was there really any point in posting this? Other than to try and dissuade potential HD DVD purchasers that may be buying the format into jumping ship to your favourite hardware? When the link has something to back it up, thats one thing. But one thing I have noticed with this forum is that far too much speculation gets posted as if it's a general trend or whatever. We've had about 10 HD DVD is dead threads in 24 hours. It's really getting rather tiresome now, can't they just stick to one?

**PFC5** · 06-19-2007, 04:58 PM

I know that Blockbuster has something like 5800 stores yet this BS post (from a blog basically) says:

Quote:

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle.

Geez. They cannot even get some basic facts correct.

MikeRox · 06-19-2007, 05:14 PM

It was blatently blogged by a Blu Ray advocate and so should be taken with a very large pinch of salt until official sources back it up.

btw, MGS4 has been confirmed by many websites as coming to the Xbox 360 over the past few months... it's still a PS3 exclusive

BiggNewt · 06-19-2007, 05:26 PM

I thought of Gizmodo as a reliable source, if this is FUD, my apologies.

**PFC5** · 06-19-2007, 05:32 PM

This site & engadget are blog sourced sites. I didn't know this until last year when someone pointed this out, so NP.

I would also imagine that the day after the $100.00 instant rebate ends for the HD DVD players there WOULD be a lull in HD DVD player sales anyway.

**bruceames** · 06-19-2007, 06:53 PM

I wonder if it's a coincidence that the BB announcement occured on the same day that the $100 instant rebate ended. It seems like the BDA wait for HD DVD to get to a low ebb (last time it was due to lack of releases) and then they make a concerted charge. I don't know if any deals were made but it seems pretty coincidental to me.

Newt that article is so weak it's way not worth a thread. It's based on what one retailer (probably a Blu-ray fan) allegedly observed from one day a sales, and like PFC5 it occured the day the HD DVD sale ended. Why don't you just go to your neighborhood BB and asked one of the salespersons how the formats sold yesterday and that would be better thread material because at least it's from someone I know. This blog may be complete BS AFAIC.

BobY · 06-19-2007, 09:19 PM

What a silly article!

I'm sure all those people who called in to cancel their HD DVD player orders (uhm, are HD DVD players on back order?) took the time to say "oh I cancelled because Blockbuster is expanding Blu-Ray to 1/3 of their stores--even though I ordered the HD DVD player knowing full well that HD DVD was not being offered in the majority of Blockbuster stores."

Yeah.

ClashFan · 06-19-2007, 11:12 PM

Today, on a sports forum that I regularly read and post on, the BB news resulted in a guy (clearly a BR guy) posting about HD DVD being dead, etc. and giving a LINK to Bill Hunt's recent article, which the guy said was "un-bias" (sic) and full of great info., etc.

I responded that Hunt was not un-biased, etc. The guy came back and defended Hunt, reaffirmed that Hunt was not slanted (b/c he agree with Hunt, evidently) and questioned why I thought HD DVD was "better" (which I did not say).

So, I did my longest forum post EVER in any forum. Note that I did mention this here forum! Did I do well? Here is a copy and paste of my lecture:

Alternatively, just because he agrees with your point of view does not mean that he is objective, either.

Clearly, your opinion is that he is not biased, mine is that he is. I read his article and was shocked at some of it. He DOES make some good points, but is very selective in what he says, and does throw some bs in there.

Sounds like you dislike MS just like Hunt does. Very little "evidence" that MS "subsidizes" HD DVD. But, we all know that Sony very much subsidizes Blu-ray. Actually, Toshiba owns most of HD DVD, not MS, and likely does the subsidizing there. I don't personally like MS or Sony, but I buy electronics based on the best overall value for my money, not which company may be looking to corner all the markets (and, I'll admit, those 2 do try to monopolize wherever they can).

Hunt IS, however, a Blu-ray supporter. Can you see that? And, I'll say it again, his post is full of some distortions and half-truths, just like that crazy HD DVD guy's post was that so ticked off Hunt. If you wish, search AVS and High Def Forum to see some make really good responses to Hunt. Please, don't go just to Blu-ray areas; read HD DVD areas, too. One guy on AVS posted an amazing point-by-point refutation of Hunt.

Hunt has for years been a real good source on DVD information, but to MANY people (not just me), he has lost a lot of credibility for some of his comments about the format war.

You asked me some good questions. I'll try to answer. First, I don't think, nor did I say, that HD DVD is "better." To me, it is a very complicated question and a fascinating "war" that may never get to the mainstream buying public, anyways. There are lots of fanboy on both sides that post misleading garbage, even on AVS and High Def. I think both formats are worth owning.

BRD does hold more raw data than HD DVD (currently 50 to 30 gb on dual layer discs), but alot depends on how that space is used. 30 gb leaves tons of room for the vast majority of movies with lossless audio, extra, etc. What's wrong with 2 disc "special editions" anyways? Even HD DVD rarely fills their 30 gb up, and I've read that many BR movies don't come anywhere close to filling up 50.

HD DVD has had their specs in line since day 1. All of HD DVD's internet connectivity and special features (like picture in picture, etc.) have been in place since day 1. BD Java 1.1 has still not been properly implemented (it was supposed to be by July, the the BR group has moved that day back to October, if even then). All HD DVD players have full decoding of Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD right in the player, while some BR's do, some do not, supposedly.

Many have speculated that these are some reasons why Warner Brothers seems to be so HD DVD biased, though they supposedly are neutral. They have released many movies months ago on HD DVD (such as Batman Begins) with still no announcement of an BR release. Also, Warner released The Matrix trilogy (in 2 different box sets) way ahead of on BR, which irritated many BR fans.

Both formats have pretty much equally good picture and audio quality (though some on each side would argue this...but it is so dependent on personal taste and other hardware one has: TV, receiver, speakers). Also, HD DVD players have been generally lower in price all along.

Plus, to me the "must have" big studios are Universal, Warner Brothers, and Paramount. All 3 produce on HD DVD. Yes, Sony/Columbia, Fox, and Disney are (so far) exclusive to BR, but Fox has seemingly dropped out (they may be waiting and seeing, but no one really knows...they were so "gung ho" for BR back in the winter, but reportedly their BR movies have sold very poorly), and even Disney has a very light schedule of releases, so far. Back last year, a big Disney guy very much left the door open to releasing on both formats.

HD DVD has Universal (with its HUGE catalog of titles) exclusively (but Warner is HD DVD biased, many BR guys even admit this, as they have released many movies on HD DVD only as mentioned earlier). The upcoming release of the big hit "300" has many BR guys upset b/c the HD DVD will have extra features on it that the BR one does not.

Also, HD DVD has a few smaller studios that are exclusive (Weinstein being the biggest "name" of these small studios...they've released such surprising gems as Lucky Number Slevin, Clerks II, and Feast). We won't even go into porn, which will largely be HD DVD, at least for awhile. I don't think porn will be a factor like it was in previous format adoption.

This fall, HD DVD has Heroes: Season 1 and Battlestar Galactica Season 1 exclusively. Also, the Bourne Identity! I've got to have those! Since those are all Universal titles, it could be a long time, if ever, that they see a BR release.

As of now, I much much more prefer HD DVDs selection of movies to that of BR's.

I'm an HD fan. I find my Comcast cable HDTV to be mediocre and very limited. I want HD stuff to buy, either HD DVD, Blu-ray, or both. I read up on this stuff for months before making the plunge with my $$. Only cost me $322 for an HD DVD player that has played terrifically. This was last October. I still can't find a BR player near that price (the new Sony will be $499, down from its originally scheduled release price of $599).

At any rate, I own an HD DVD player and love it. I'll happily buy BR at some time in the future (unless it ends up being mostly for the PS3 crowd, only) when they get their specs in line and get a price on a quality player down to my price point. Oh, and when they get move "must have" movies for me.

Actually, I'd LOVE to have a good combo player that plays both formats. But, I really think those will be too pricey for me until well into 2008). Whatever the case, all the HD DVD movies I have will be used for many years to come, whatever happens in the "war."

Pax!

Lee Stewart · 06-19-2007, 11:18 PM

ClashFan:

Great post! Kudo's to you. Well thought out and hit's the points you are making - dead center.

**PFC5** · 06-19-2007, 11:23 PM

Excellent post!

ClashFan · 06-20-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

ClashFan:

Great post! Kudo's to you. Well thought out and hit's the points you are making - dead center.

Thanks. The guy has not responded to my post; perhaps he will not.

There was another guy in the thread that predicted that BR would win by September. I asked him if I could kid him about that come September...

Lee Stewart · 06-20-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClashFan

Thanks. The guy has not responded to my post; perhaps he will not.

There was another guy in the thread that predicted that BR would win by September. I asked him if I could kid him about that come September...

Clash - you GOTTA stay out of bluray.com!

unotis · 06-20-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

ClashFan:

Great post! Kudo's to you. Well thought out and hit's the points you are making - dead center.

Actually, that is another fine example of what a post really should be like... logical, well structured, concise and intelligent without any personel/fanboy attacks offered.

Excellent post!

06-19-2007, 04:40 PM	#1
BiggNewt High on Definition Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,422	Blockbuster announcement affecting HD DVD player sales. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on...les-270313.php __________________ Panasonic TC-P46G10 Plasma HDTV Samsung LN-T4061F 1080p HDTV Panasonic CT26WX15 CRT HDTV Onkyo TX-SR604 7.1 HDMI Receiver Optimus Mach Three Front Speakers Sony SS-CN5000 Center Speaker Sony SS-B1000 Surround Speakers (7.1) Sony SA-W3000 180W Subwoofer Sony PS3 (60gig w/ Linux installed) XBox 360 Premium Sony PS2 (160gig HDD, Messiah Pro 2 Modchip) Phillips DVP642 Divx/PAL DVD Player ViP 722k DVR Dual-Tuner 500GB

06-19-2007, 04:52 PM	#2
strawberry HD is the Lord. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 1,635	Interesting find- I'm not slamming you for posting it Newt. However, it's probably a good idea to let more than 1 day pass before we get to crazy about assessing the impact of BB's announcement on sales... __________________ Home Theater Setup ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV Denon 2807 AVR 7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System Toshiba HD-A1 PS3 60 Gig Xbox 360 Premium Moxi BMC 9022 DVR Logitech Harmony 880

06-19-2007, 04:54 PM	#3
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,414	"tipster from an unnamed retailer" great source mate, and in under 48 hours. Maybe it was an unnamed Sony rep from a Sony Centre, they don't sell HD DVD, and they've had no cancellations, BUT 0 cancellations is the highest number they've ever had because they've never had any... Was there really any point in posting this? Other than to try and dissuade potential HD DVD purchasers that may be buying the format into jumping ship to your favourite hardware? When the link has something to back it up, thats one thing. But one thing I have noticed with this forum is that far too much speculation gets posted as if it's a general trend or whatever. We've had about 10 HD DVD is dead threads in 24 hours. It's really getting rather tiresome now, can't they just stick to one? Last edited by MikeRox; 06-19-2007 at 04:57 PM.

06-19-2007, 05:26 PM	#6
BiggNewt High on Definition Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,422	I thought of Gizmodo as a reliable source, if this is FUD, my apologies. __________________ Panasonic TC-P46G10 Plasma HDTV Samsung LN-T4061F 1080p HDTV Panasonic CT26WX15 CRT HDTV Onkyo TX-SR604 7.1 HDMI Receiver Optimus Mach Three Front Speakers Sony SS-CN5000 Center Speaker Sony SS-B1000 Surround Speakers (7.1) Sony SA-W3000 180W Subwoofer Sony PS3 (60gig w/ Linux installed) XBox 360 Premium Sony PS2 (160gig HDD, Messiah Pro 2 Modchip) Phillips DVP642 Divx/PAL DVD Player ViP 722k DVR Dual-Tuner 500GB

06-19-2007, 05:32 PM	#7
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,345	This site & engadget are blog sourced sites. I didn't know this until last year when someone pointed this out, so NP. I would also imagine that the day after the $100.00 instant rebate ends for the HD DVD players there WOULD be a lull in HD DVD player sales anyway. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

06-19-2007, 05:14 PM	#5
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,414	It was blatently blogged by a Blu Ray advocate and so should be taken with a very large pinch of salt until official sources back it up. btw, MGS4 has been confirmed by many websites as coming to the Xbox 360 over the past few months... it's still a PS3 exclusive

06-19-2007, 06:53 PM	#8
bruceames Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Rafael, CA Posts: 10,166	I wonder if it's a coincidence that the BB announcement occured on the same day that the $100 instant rebate ended. It seems like the BDA wait for HD DVD to get to a low ebb (last time it was due to lack of releases) and then they make a concerted charge. I don't know if any deals were made but it seems pretty coincidental to me. Newt that article is so weak it's way not worth a thread. It's based on what one retailer (probably a Blu-ray fan) allegedly observed from one day a sales, and like PFC5 it occured the day the HD DVD sale ended. Why don't you just go to your neighborhood BB and asked one of the salespersons how the formats sold yesterday and that would be better thread material because at least it's from someone I know. This blog may be complete BS AFAIC. __________________ Blu-rays: 55 Latest purchases: John Adams, Gone With the Wind, Up, Rocky: The Undisputed Collection Last edited by bruceames; 06-19-2007 at 06:58 PM.

06-19-2007, 09:19 PM	#9
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	What a silly article! I'm sure all those people who called in to cancel their HD DVD player orders (uhm, are HD DVD players on back order?) took the time to say "oh I cancelled because Blockbuster is expanding Blu-Ray to 1/3 of their stores--even though I ordered the HD DVD player knowing full well that HD DVD was not being offered in the majority of Blockbuster stores." Yeah.

06-19-2007, 11:12 PM	#10
ClashFan Joe Strummer Lives! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,337	Today, on a sports forum that I regularly read and post on, the BB news resulted in a guy (clearly a BR guy) posting about HD DVD being dead, etc. and giving a LINK to Bill Hunt's recent article, which the guy said was "un-bias" (sic) and full of great info., etc. I responded that Hunt was not un-biased, etc. The guy came back and defended Hunt, reaffirmed that Hunt was not slanted (b/c he agree with Hunt, evidently) and questioned why I thought HD DVD was "better" (which I did not say). So, I did my longest forum post EVER in any forum. Note that I did mention this here forum! Did I do well? Here is a copy and paste of my lecture: Alternatively, just because he agrees with your point of view does not mean that he is objective, either. Clearly, your opinion is that he is not biased, mine is that he is. I read his article and was shocked at some of it. He DOES make some good points, but is very selective in what he says, and does throw some bs in there. Sounds like you dislike MS just like Hunt does. Very little "evidence" that MS "subsidizes" HD DVD. But, we all know that Sony very much subsidizes Blu-ray. Actually, Toshiba owns most of HD DVD, not MS, and likely does the subsidizing there. I don't personally like MS or Sony, but I buy electronics based on the best overall value for my money, not which company may be looking to corner all the markets (and, I'll admit, those 2 do try to monopolize wherever they can). Hunt IS, however, a Blu-ray supporter. Can you see that? And, I'll say it again, his post is full of some distortions and half-truths, just like that crazy HD DVD guy's post was that so ticked off Hunt. If you wish, search AVS and High Def Forum to see some make really good responses to Hunt. Please, don't go just to Blu-ray areas; read HD DVD areas, too. One guy on AVS posted an amazing point-by-point refutation of Hunt. Hunt has for years been a real good source on DVD information, but to MANY people (not just me), he has lost a lot of credibility for some of his comments about the format war. You asked me some good questions. I'll try to answer. First, I don't think, nor did I say, that HD DVD is "better." To me, it is a very complicated question and a fascinating "war" that may never get to the mainstream buying public, anyways. There are lots of fanboy on both sides that post misleading garbage, even on AVS and High Def. I think both formats are worth owning. BRD does hold more raw data than HD DVD (currently 50 to 30 gb on dual layer discs), but alot depends on how that space is used. 30 gb leaves tons of room for the vast majority of movies with lossless audio, extra, etc. What's wrong with 2 disc "special editions" anyways? Even HD DVD rarely fills their 30 gb up, and I've read that many BR movies don't come anywhere close to filling up 50. HD DVD has had their specs in line since day 1. All of HD DVD's internet connectivity and special features (like picture in picture, etc.) have been in place since day 1. BD Java 1.1 has still not been properly implemented (it was supposed to be by July, the the BR group has moved that day back to October, if even then). All HD DVD players have full decoding of Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD right in the player, while some BR's do, some do not, supposedly. Many have speculated that these are some reasons why Warner Brothers seems to be so HD DVD biased, though they supposedly are neutral. They have released many movies months ago on HD DVD (such as Batman Begins) with still no announcement of an BR release. Also, Warner released The Matrix trilogy (in 2 different box sets) way ahead of on BR, which irritated many BR fans. Both formats have pretty much equally good picture and audio quality (though some on each side would argue this...but it is so dependent on personal taste and other hardware one has: TV, receiver, speakers). Also, HD DVD players have been generally lower in price all along. Plus, to me the "must have" big studios are Universal, Warner Brothers, and Paramount. All 3 produce on HD DVD. Yes, Sony/Columbia, Fox, and Disney are (so far) exclusive to BR, but Fox has seemingly dropped out (they may be waiting and seeing, but no one really knows...they were so "gung ho" for BR back in the winter, but reportedly their BR movies have sold very poorly), and even Disney has a very light schedule of releases, so far. Back last year, a big Disney guy very much left the door open to releasing on both formats. HD DVD has Universal (with its HUGE catalog of titles) exclusively (but Warner is HD DVD biased, many BR guys even admit this, as they have released many movies on HD DVD only as mentioned earlier). The upcoming release of the big hit "300" has many BR guys upset b/c the HD DVD will have extra features on it that the BR one does not. Also, HD DVD has a few smaller studios that are exclusive (Weinstein being the biggest "name" of these small studios...they've released such surprising gems as Lucky Number Slevin, Clerks II, and Feast). We won't even go into porn, which will largely be HD DVD, at least for awhile. I don't think porn will be a factor like it was in previous format adoption. This fall, HD DVD has Heroes: Season 1 and Battlestar Galactica Season 1 exclusively. Also, the Bourne Identity! I've got to have those! Since those are all Universal titles, it could be a long time, if ever, that they see a BR release. As of now, I much much more prefer HD DVDs selection of movies to that of BR's. I'm an HD fan. I find my Comcast cable HDTV to be mediocre and very limited. I want HD stuff to buy, either HD DVD, Blu-ray, or both. I read up on this stuff for months before making the plunge with my $$. Only cost me $322 for an HD DVD player that has played terrifically. This was last October. I still can't find a BR player near that price (the new Sony will be $499, down from its originally scheduled release price of $599). At any rate, I own an HD DVD player and love it. I'll happily buy BR at some time in the future (unless it ends up being mostly for the PS3 crowd, only) when they get their specs in line and get a price on a quality player down to my price point. Oh, and when they get move "must have" movies for me. Actually, I'd LOVE to have a good combo player that plays both formats. But, I really think those will be too pricey for me until well into 2008). Whatever the case, all the HD DVD movies I have will be used for many years to come, whatever happens in the "war." Pax! __________________ My gear: Samsung LN46A650 -- 46" 120 Hz Onkyo TX-SR674 receiver JBL Venue fronts, Infinity TSS-1100 center Infinity TSS-1100 surrounds and rear surrounds JBL SUB12 subwoofer Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player (firmware 2.7) (100+ HD DVDs) Sony BDP-S550 BD player (51 BDs) Xbox 360 game console Comcast Motorola 6412 HDTV cable box Logitech Harmony 550 Remote 1 wife, 2 sons (ages 15 and 8)

06-19-2007, 11:18 PM	#11
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,188	ClashFan: Great post! Kudo's to you. Well thought out and hit's the points you are making - dead center.

06-19-2007, 11:23 PM	#12
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,345	Excellent post! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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