10 Reasons Why High Def DVD Formats Have Already Failed

borromini · 06-27-2006, 07:09 PM

http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...DVDsfailed.php

The link and the 10 reasons pasted below...fun stuff:

Nobody likes false starts
With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a player that didn’t support true HD at 1080p (even though the software does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track, the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch.
Format Wars Don’t Sell Players
The only reason Sony’s Playstation, Microsoft’s Xbox and the Nintendo GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they can play the software. This is not a format war – it is choice, just like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly separate products successfully. Take careful note – a format war is NOT competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs.
HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to instantly access tracks across an entire “album”. Convenience, not technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again, convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the concept of a shiny plastic disc was new – and quite frankly, it was the coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the same… and consumer confusion will surely follow. What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD? Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life. Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in the last several years). While the potential for more extras and alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media, there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new high definition DVD formats in large numbers.
Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss out on market advances – even those that can make them money (ie. Why is a computer company running the world’s most successful online music store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD bandwagon just yet – and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next 10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a new, unproven technology – even if it saves them from some other copyright headaches. Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large electronics chains.
Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will “jump start” the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the average consumer’s living room. The result is that the PS3 will primarily be a *gasp* gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward in market penetration as a home video format – at least not anytime soon. History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2, Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as “set-top boxes” but in reality find themselves situated in more “gaming-centric” environments playing… you guessed it, games.
Those Who Ignore History…
For years we’ve heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading. All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could have prevented any illegal copying – at least for all but the most dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why? Without an artificial “shove” from the record industry – which never materialized – technology alone is never enough to push a new format into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use, DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new formats. Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the “format war” had been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other) we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a short term loss of licensing revenues.
People Want Technology that’s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference between that and his older SD TV is amazing – at least when he’s watching DVDs. You see, that’s the problem – and it’s two-fold. While most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they’re already impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high definition discs. The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV – and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he is dumbfounded by his cable TV – which actually looks worse than it did on his old set (mostly because it’s bigger). You see, nobody told Billy Bob that he’d have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren’t yet available in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The last thing they’re going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest thing.
Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP HDTV) – these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even less sales to early-adopters.
A Skeptical News Media Doesn’t Help
I’ll admit it, we’re part of the “problem” (though I’d like to think we’re saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An increasingly skeptical news media isn’t buying into the hype of HD DVD and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at least not yet) is hard to avoid.
Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high definition DVD will be something that isn’t relevant in a service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer’s recent push for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality source material. Even with respect to high definition formats, downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer model is being readied for testing in South Carolina’s head-end for Time Warner Cable this year.

HDMI Fantastic · 06-27-2006, 09:46 PM

Unfortunately, that article takes a lot of the author's opinion's/assumptions and present's them as fact. That kind of authoring can attempt to destroy anything.

Circa 1890's-what if?
While the light bulb seemed like a good idea, the fact that it is extremely hot to the touch, has limited range,and can burn out in a moment's notice and then you are left in total darkness, means this idea is a bad one. Add to this that there are no factories capable of producing glass in this strange shape on a large scale, and the fact that homes have no way of providing this "juice" required to run it. By the time all this could even be accomplished, a better technology will surely be available that will make it obsolete before it even reaches widescale acceptance

If the negative ninny's that came up with garbage ruled the world, we'd still be living in caves. There are so many non-issues in there (HD DVD/Blu-ray can't succeed because everybody is still pissed about 8 track?) that it's not worth taking seriously.

borromini · 06-27-2006, 11:17 PM

Hence why I said it was fun stuff.

godson · 06-28-2006, 12:34 PM

While i agree that its is just that,fun stuff, I must say that #7 holds a fair amount of truth. I cant tell you the vast number of times I'm approached by neighbors,friends,Friends of neighbors etc... and asked these very same questions.Most of these people are older than me(35+ range) who never had interest in HDTV's or the like but when they went to(enter generic electronics retailer name here) they were convinced that HD was the way to go but given very little more information by 18 year old kid that sold them a 1000+ dollar tv,and now they are posed with the very same questions stated in the article.In the past 3 weeks or so I have had about 100 conversations with many of the people whom i routinely give advice to(thanks many times to you guys here) and the "new" hot question is"whats up with these new dvd players?"Alot of these people sorta feel duped,like they bought these fairly expensive HD sets only to have there cable/satellite bill go up,and to have what in there eyes is very limited HD viewing content on tv.Now they are being told that they should lay out 500+ dollars for a DVD player,when they already own one.Most of these people are quite content with there players already and are a bit weary of buying a player that as far as they are concerned,does the same thing there player already does."I mean how much better can my movies look?" is usually the first thing I'm asked.Even after explaining the benefits of these players(even as I'm slightly biased to HD DVD,cant beat the Toshiba)the usual response is that its just too much money for what they feel will be a less-than-significant improvement.Even I just bought the A1 this weekend and have showed most of these people the difference and still its just a hard sell.I think a major part of HD becoming the norm is the information chain.Unfortunately most casual buyers are walking into BB or CC and speaking to less than qualified CSR's about products that cost as much or more than most people make in a week.You would hope that when making a purchase like that you would be able to get the best information possible yet as we all know it dont always work that way.It would be a first time Corvette buyer walking into a Chevy dealer and the salespersons extent of knowledge on the car is thats its fast and looks cool,cause basically that how many CSR's promote HD tv's and DVD's,they're like "its shiny and looks really cool,and its only 500+ dollars"

drock912001 · 06-28-2006, 05:03 PM

#7 holds alot of truth.My dad bought hd Toshiba.When I asked him about subscribing to his cable companies hd package,he asked what for and what differnce will it make.He thought a widescreen tv eliminated letterbox that's the reason he bought it.The dvd was set for 4:3,but I feel the studios make and break every format that comes out.Your right if there is no software why buy it?

Cornbread · 06-28-2006, 07:27 PM

That article is baloney, HD DVD is not an underwhelming 720p/1080i, it is a magnificent 1080i. HDTV is on the verge of breaking out to the mainstream. The majority of new TVs being sold are already HD, by this time next year we should see many more HD channels and people will be used to seeing HDTV, once you get used to HD you don't even want to see blurry SD anymore, this will trickle down to the DVD/ HD-DVD medium. Standard SD-DVDs just won't be good enough anymore, people will want to take advantage of their new HD TV sets and there will be hundreds of HD-DVDs available and the Toshiba HD-DVD should be priced at a very affordable $300-400. They will be looking to buy an new HDMI DVD player, they will do a little research and come to the realization the the HD-DVD is the way to go. A year from now, around Christmas 2007, HD-DVD will be exploding.

hdrichtv · 06-28-2006, 08:55 PM

Very well stated, and I couldn't agree more--we are about to embark into the age of HD-DVD nirvana.

**PFC5** · 06-28-2006, 09:18 PM

Don't forget that the HD-DVD player comes as close as I have seen to making SD DVDs look like HD, and it actually looks more like HD with SD DVDs than most of those horrible HD channels they show off HDTVs with at BB & CC.

godson · 06-28-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

That article is baloney, HD DVD is not an underwhelming 720p/1080i, it is a magnificent 1080i. HDTV is on the verge of breaking out to the mainstream. The majority of new TVs being sold are already HD, by this time next year we should see many more HD channels and people will be used to seeing HDTV, once you get used to HD you don't even want to see blurry SD anymore, this will trickle down to the DVD/ HD-DVD medium. Standard SD-DVDs just won't be good enough anymore, people will want to take advantage of their new HD TV sets and there will be hundreds of HD-DVDs available and the Toshiba HD-DVD should be priced at a very affordable $300-400. They will be looking to buy an new HDMI DVD player, they will do a little research and come to the realization the the HD-DVD is the way to go. A year from now, around Christmas 2007, HD-DVD will be exploding.

Well while I do totally agree,like I said earlier I still feel that the lack of knowledgeable information passed to the new HD tv/dvd buyer will inhibit this a bit.I know for all of us,we sit here and say "how can this not become the standard?its amazing!"but unfortuneatly the majority of the country is not nearly as tech saavy as we are.Even the best of services cant always convince people to switch,look how long its taking for broadband internet to replace dial-up.....dial-up!Theres still a pretty good chunk of America using it,even though broadband is as cheap as its ever been..I know this is an apples-oranges comparison but the idea is a MUCh better product is still not the standard.Believe me I yearn for the day when HD rules,but I dont think by next summer either HD DVD format will overwhelmingly in American households,I think it will be quite some time before that happens,albeit unfortunate.

drock912001 · 06-29-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

That article is baloney, HD DVD is not an underwhelming 720p/1080i, it is a magnificent 1080i. HDTV is on the verge of breaking out to the mainstream. The majority of new TVs being sold are already HD, by this time next year we should see many more HD channels and people will be used to seeing HDTV, once you get used to HD you don't even want to see blurry SD anymore, this will trickle down to the DVD/ HD-DVD medium. Standard SD-DVDs just won't be good enough anymore, people will want to take advantage of their new HD TV sets and there will be hundreds of HD-DVDs available and the Toshiba HD-DVD should be priced at a very affordable $300-400. They will be looking to buy an new HDMI DVD player, they will do a little research and come to the realization the the HD-DVD is the way to go. A year from now, around Christmas 2007, HD-DVD will be exploding.

A $300-400 hddvd player only appeals to users on this forum.When Joe average still buys sd dvd players for less han $100,$300 seems extreme.But because it is in it's infacy right now its a bargain and will be 6 months down the road.Hd tv sets are selling,but those consumers aren't converting to hd anything.My father-in-law want's good tv but he seems to think a hd tv will enhance the picture he's currently watching and doesn't want to spend anymore money a subscription.Any one of us on this forum can go into bb or cc and give customers more info about current technology than the employees themselves can and could actually influence a border line customer to buy a tv and possibly an hddvd player.But we have to be patient.I want new releases and not old movies rereleased in hddvd with a sd dvd version of a film.New releases are vital for hd to be mainstream.

godson · 06-29-2006, 07:11 PM

exactly.

HDMI Fantastic · 06-29-2006, 09:37 PM

Hey guy's be sure to tell those HDTV convert's they don't have to pay extra for HD channels. They can get the locals included regardless of what pkg they are getting.This is something the Comcast's of the world won't tell you unless you ask.Usually a "digital channel" scan is all it takes, or swapping out for the HD capable box if that's what they are using.

crazyal · 07-02-2006, 02:50 PM

I think #7 is worded incorrectly. We don't want what's "15 minutes in the future". It's just that when we get something new the time it takes before we're ready for the next step is continuly decreasing. How long did VHS last, roughly twice as long as DVD's? Now we are on the verge of replacing DVD's with the next form. Yes I believe that soon the new Highdef players will down convert so we will all convert no matter if we have an HDTV or not.

The next format, no matter if it's one or both, will not die because there's no money to be made selling DVD players anymore. Until everything does work itself out it's fun making up my mind as to how I think it will go and read opinions of how others think. In a year or two I'm sure I'll be right (even if it's only in my mind, lol).

ViperVenom18 · 07-03-2006, 05:02 PM

Man, none of us know what will happen with this new format war. We can only wait and see, it happens like this all the time.

I remember how long it took for my parents to get a DVD player because their VHS selection was so large, they did not even want to think of replacing it all. Finally as of a few years ago they got a GoVideo aka a VHS and DVD player in one (POS man, its bad) and now they like DVD, but still watch VHS just as much.

Now they heard of this new DVD war and don't even think about it... For the average person it takes a long ass time for people to buy into technology. So far, for being 20, and my parents near 50, I have always been the first to buy new tech stuff, and my parents second... does that tell you something?

I was the first to buy a "flat screen" tv.. then 2 years later my parents did. I also owned the first DVD player in our house, and am now the first to have a HDTV, and now my Dad is getting one for his new place.

It's a given, the average consumer takes their prety little time getting into it, becuase unlike for us, they don't really care about it

Sorry for any typo's, I gotta run.

BNCR · 11-09-2007, 01:52 PM

This is why I'm getting my HD OTA and waiting for Directv and the player manufacturers and studios to figure out what they are doing.

06-27-2006, 07:09 PM	#1
borromini HT Frontiersman Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 9,822	10 Reasons Why High Def DVD Formats Have Already Failed http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...DVDsfailed.php The link and the 10 reasons pasted below...fun stuff: Nobody likes false starts With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a player that didn’t support true HD at 1080p (even though the software does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track, the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch. Format Wars Don’t Sell Players The only reason Sony’s Playstation, Microsoft’s Xbox and the Nintendo GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they can play the software. This is not a format war – it is choice, just like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly separate products successfully. Take careful note – a format war is NOT competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs. HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to instantly access tracks across an entire “album”. Convenience, not technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again, convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the concept of a shiny plastic disc was new – and quite frankly, it was the coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the same… and consumer confusion will surely follow. What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD? Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life. Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in the last several years). While the potential for more extras and alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media, there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new high definition DVD formats in large numbers. Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss out on market advances – even those that can make them money (ie. Why is a computer company running the world’s most successful online music store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD bandwagon just yet – and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next 10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a new, unproven technology – even if it saves them from some other copyright headaches. Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large electronics chains. Playstation3 Cannot Save the World We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will “jump start” the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the average consumer’s living room. The result is that the PS3 will primarily be a gasp gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward in market penetration as a home video format – at least not anytime soon. History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2, Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as “set-top boxes” but in reality find themselves situated in more “gaming-centric” environments playing… you guessed it, games. Those Who Ignore History… For years we’ve heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading. All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could have prevented any illegal copying – at least for all but the most dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why? Without an artificial “shove” from the record industry – which never materialized – technology alone is never enough to push a new format into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use, DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new formats. Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the “format war” had been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other) we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a short term loss of licensing revenues. People Want Technology that’s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference between that and his older SD TV is amazing – at least when he’s watching DVDs. You see, that’s the problem – and it’s two-fold. While most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they’re already impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high definition discs. The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV – and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he is dumbfounded by his cable TV – which actually looks worse than it did on his old set (mostly because it’s bigger). You see, nobody told Billy Bob that he’d have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren’t yet available in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The last thing they’re going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest thing. Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter) While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP HDTV) – these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even less sales to early-adopters. A Skeptical News Media Doesn’t Help I’ll admit it, we’re part of the “problem” (though I’d like to think we’re saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An increasingly skeptical news media isn’t buying into the hype of HD DVD and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at least not yet) is hard to avoid. Broadband and IPTV to Compete? With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high definition DVD will be something that isn’t relevant in a service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer’s recent push for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality source material. Even with respect to high definition formats, downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer model is being readied for testing in South Carolina’s head-end for Time Warner Cable this year. __________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

06-27-2006, 11:17 PM	#3
borromini HT Frontiersman Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 9,822	Hence why I said it was fun stuff. __________________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

06-28-2006, 05:03 PM	#5
drock912001 NFL in HD nothing else Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Charlotte,NC Posts: 1,570	#7 holds alot of truth.My dad bought hd Toshiba.When I asked him about subscribing to his cable companies hd package,he asked what for and what differnce will it make.He thought a widescreen tv eliminated letterbox that's the reason he bought it.The dvd was set for 4:3,but I feel the studios make and break every format that comes out.Your right if there is no software why buy it? __________________ Samsung HL-R5667W Toshiba HD-XA1 Directv HR12-100S IXOS audio & video connectors Monster Power HTS2500 HD DVD 58? Mover's hustled most of my collection last year!

06-28-2006, 09:18 PM	#8
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,349	Don't forget that the HD-DVD player comes as close as I have seen to making SD DVDs look like HD, and it actually looks more like HD with SD DVDs than most of those horrible HD channels they show off HDTVs with at BB & CC. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

06-29-2006, 07:11 PM	#11
godson Mr. Bill Belecheeeeek. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: philadelphia Posts: 2,592	exactly. __________________ Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Renee, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

06-27-2006, 09:46 PM	#2
HDMI Fantastic HD since mid 04 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 326	Unfortunately, that article takes a lot of the author's opinion's/assumptions and present's them as fact. That kind of authoring can attempt to destroy anything. Circa 1890's-what if? While the light bulb seemed like a good idea, the fact that it is extremely hot to the touch, has limited range,and can burn out in a moment's notice and then you are left in total darkness, means this idea is a bad one. Add to this that there are no factories capable of producing glass in this strange shape on a large scale, and the fact that homes have no way of providing this "juice" required to run it. By the time all this could even be accomplished, a better technology will surely be available that will make it obsolete before it even reaches widescale acceptance If the negative ninny's that came up with garbage ruled the world, we'd still be living in caves. There are so many non-issues in there (HD DVD/Blu-ray can't succeed because everybody is still pissed about 8 track?) that it's not worth taking seriously.

06-28-2006, 12:34 PM	#4
godson Mr. Bill Belecheeeeek. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: philadelphia Posts: 2,592	While i agree that its is just that,fun stuff, I must say that #7 holds a fair amount of truth. I cant tell you the vast number of times I'm approached by neighbors,friends,Friends of neighbors etc... and asked these very same questions.Most of these people are older than me(35+ range) who never had interest in HDTV's or the like but when they went to(enter generic electronics retailer name here) they were convinced that HD was the way to go but given very little more information by 18 year old kid that sold them a 1000+ dollar tv,and now they are posed with the very same questions stated in the article.In the past 3 weeks or so I have had about 100 conversations with many of the people whom i routinely give advice to(thanks many times to you guys here) and the "new" hot question is"whats up with these new dvd players?"Alot of these people sorta feel duped,like they bought these fairly expensive HD sets only to have there cable/satellite bill go up,and to have what in there eyes is very limited HD viewing content on tv.Now they are being told that they should lay out 500+ dollars for a DVD player,when they already own one.Most of these people are quite content with there players already and are a bit weary of buying a player that as far as they are concerned,does the same thing there player already does."I mean how much better can my movies look?" is usually the first thing I'm asked.Even after explaining the benefits of these players(even as I'm slightly biased to HD DVD,cant beat the Toshiba)the usual response is that its just too much money for what they feel will be a less-than-significant improvement.Even I just bought the A1 this weekend and have showed most of these people the difference and still its just a hard sell.I think a major part of HD becoming the norm is the information chain.Unfortunately most casual buyers are walking into BB or CC and speaking to less than qualified CSR's about products that cost as much or more than most people make in a week.You would hope that when making a purchase like that you would be able to get the best information possible yet as we all know it dont always work that way.It would be a first time Corvette buyer walking into a Chevy dealer and the salespersons extent of knowledge on the car is thats its fast and looks cool,cause basically that how many CSR's promote HD tv's and DVD's,they're like "its shiny and looks really cool,and its only 500+ dollars" __________________ Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Renee, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

06-28-2006, 07:27 PM	#6
Cornbread High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 265	That article is baloney, HD DVD is not an underwhelming 720p/1080i, it is a magnificent 1080i. HDTV is on the verge of breaking out to the mainstream. The majority of new TVs being sold are already HD, by this time next year we should see many more HD channels and people will be used to seeing HDTV, once you get used to HD you don't even want to see blurry SD anymore, this will trickle down to the DVD/ HD-DVD medium. Standard SD-DVDs just won't be good enough anymore, people will want to take advantage of their new HD TV sets and there will be hundreds of HD-DVDs available and the Toshiba HD-DVD should be priced at a very affordable $300-400. They will be looking to buy an new HDMI DVD player, they will do a little research and come to the realization the the HD-DVD is the way to go. A year from now, around Christmas 2007, HD-DVD will be exploding.

06-28-2006, 08:55 PM	#7
hdrichtv High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 175	Very well stated, and I couldn't agree more--we are about to embark into the age of HD-DVD nirvana.

06-29-2006, 09:37 PM	#12
HDMI Fantastic HD since mid 04 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 326	Hey guy's be sure to tell those HDTV convert's they don't have to pay extra for HD channels. They can get the locals included regardless of what pkg they are getting.This is something the Comcast's of the world won't tell you unless you ask.Usually a "digital channel" scan is all it takes, or swapping out for the HD capable box if that's what they are using.

07-02-2006, 02:50 PM	#13
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	I think #7 is worded incorrectly. We don't want what's "15 minutes in the future". It's just that when we get something new the time it takes before we're ready for the next step is continuly decreasing. How long did VHS last, roughly twice as long as DVD's? Now we are on the verge of replacing DVD's with the next form. Yes I believe that soon the new Highdef players will down convert so we will all convert no matter if we have an HDTV or not. The next format, no matter if it's one or both, will not die because there's no money to be made selling DVD players anymore. Until everything does work itself out it's fun making up my mind as to how I think it will go and read opinions of how others think. In a year or two I'm sure I'll be right (even if it's only in my mind, lol).

07-03-2006, 05:02 PM	#14
ViperVenom18 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 641	Man, none of us know what will happen with this new format war. We can only wait and see, it happens like this all the time. I remember how long it took for my parents to get a DVD player because their VHS selection was so large, they did not even want to think of replacing it all. Finally as of a few years ago they got a GoVideo aka a VHS and DVD player in one (POS man, its bad) and now they like DVD, but still watch VHS just as much. Now they heard of this new DVD war and don't even think about it... For the average person it takes a long ass time for people to buy into technology. So far, for being 20, and my parents near 50, I have always been the first to buy new tech stuff, and my parents second... does that tell you something? I was the first to buy a "flat screen" tv.. then 2 years later my parents did. I also owned the first DVD player in our house, and am now the first to have a HDTV, and now my Dad is getting one for his new place. It's a given, the average consumer takes their prety little time getting into it, becuase unlike for us, they don't really care about it Sorry for any typo's, I gotta run.

11-09-2007, 01:52 PM	#15
BNCR High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 388	This is why I'm getting my HD OTA and waiting for Directv and the player manufacturers and studios to figure out what they are doing.