Does anyone but me feel that all these price cuts in HDDVD players means failure

PFC5 · 05-30-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

That is a big so-what. The overwhelming majority agreed to Blu-ray and if either Toshiba or Universal had, we wouldn't be in this mess. The format approved by the DVD forum didn't meet Fox's nor Disney's requirements, it wasn't good enough nor secure enough. I don't know why nobody here except me thinks an overwhelming majority should have been good enough and HD DVD forgotten.

chris

The majority of the DVD Forum members clearly voted for HD DVD to be the next format or else it would not have been chosen. The whole purpose of the organization was to have only one format that you keep wanting. The problem is that some of the more upfront (CE companies instead of component companies) companies that are members wanted BD. Clearly the BD companies sided against the standards org that they are members of and didn't want to accept the majority rule vote.

The DVD Forum was created to give you what you wanted Chris. It was to limit movie media to ONE format. It just so happens to not be the format YOU want to have so you apparently do not think majority SHOULD rule.

It is all water under the bridge at this point though. I originally posted that when the other poster erroneously said that TOSHIBA did not go along with the majority which they clearly did.

Big Red · 05-30-2007, 02:39 PM

The funny thing about these price cuts is that if you look at it Blu-ray is coming down much more in price than HD DVD. After one year Blu-ray players has or is coming down in price by $400. But HD DVD has only come down by $100.

I just think it's Blu-ray fans being a little scared that HD DVD is coming down to a more afforadble price quicker. And their just trying to discredit them as much as they can.

dels28 · 05-30-2007, 02:44 PM

I think the A2 is now avialable at 200 dollars less than the origianl price as is the XA2. I was able to get mine for 269 in March thanks to a CC pricing era

. Now all I need is for wal-mart since they have the lowest prices of any of the stores i've visited to increase their titles for both formats and I'll be satisfied.

unotis · 05-30-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

The majority of the DVD Forum members clearly voted for HD DVD to be the next format or else it would not have been chosen. The whole purpose of the organization was to have only one format that you keep wanting. The problem is that some of the more upfront (CE companies instead of component companies) companies that are members wanted BD. Clearly the BD companies sided against the standards org that they are members of and didn't want to accept the majority rule vote.

The DVD Forum was created to give you what you wanted Chris. It was to limit movie media to ONE format. It just so happens to not be the format YOU want to have so you apparently do not think majority SHOULD rule.

It is all water under the bridge at this point though. I originally posted that when the other poster erroneously said that TOSHIBA did not go along with the majority which they clearly did.

Again, a well thought out and written post with plenty of provable facts to support his contention.

No fanboy blather just common sensible points.

Those are the kind of posts we need more of to make everyone more knowledgeable and able to make informed decisions on what format or product is best suited to their needs.

PFC5, just send my check to the normal address.

unotis · 05-30-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Red

The funny thing about these price cuts is that if you look at it Blu-ray is coming down much more in price than HD DVD. After one year Blu-ray players has or is coming down in price by $400. But HD DVD has only come down by $100.

I just think it's Blu-ray fans being a little scared that HD DVD is coming down to a more afforadble price quicker. And their just trying to discredit them as much as they can.

I don't think their scared as much as frustrated that HD DVD is doing so well and not going to go away any time soon.

Things will improve for them also when Blu-Ray players have actually met their full standards (complete their development) and they get the price down to reasonable levels (under $400 to $200 ).

Stew4HD · 05-30-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dels28

I think the A2 is now avialable at 200 dollars less than the origianl price as is the XA2. I was able to get mine for 269 in March thanks to a CC pricing era

. Now all I need is for wal-mart since they have the lowest prices of any of the stores i've visited to increase their titles for both formats and I'll be satisfied.

The XA2 is down over 400$ in some places. I paid $999 MSRP for it when it first hit the streets, so it has come down quite a bit.... maybe the G3 players are on the horizon?

PFC5 · 05-30-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

Again, a well thought out and written post with plenty of provable facts to support his contention.

No fanboy blather just common sensible points.

Those are the kind of posts we need more of to make everyone more knowledgeable and able to make informed decisions on what format or product is best suited to their needs.

PFC5, just send my check to the normal address.

Thanks for the kind words. The check is already in the mail.

Lee Stewart · 05-30-2007, 09:10 PM

HD DVD's strongest selling point to date is the price of the players. As this is a war, you use your biggest guns anytime you can.

Based on the reports coming from all over the USA, in the 30 days that the $100 rebate applies - Toshiba has an excellent chance of selling between 50,000 and 80,000 players.

As we know that the attach rate for HD DVD is high. It would not surprise me to see the sales numbers of HD DVD movies spike dramatically over the next 30 days.

Chris Gerhard · 05-31-2007, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unotis

I don't think their scared as much as frustrated that HD DVD is doing so well and not going to go away any time soon.

Things will improve for them also when Blu-Ray players have actually met their full standards (complete their development) and they get the price down to reasonable levels (under $400 to $200 ).

Better for them too? Blu-ray is already doing better, or rather not as poorly as HD DVD but both are doing very poorly. I have to hand it to you HD DVD enthusiasts, you guys sure try to make second place in a two team race sound great and suggest first place needs to hurry up or be left behind.

Chris

Stew4HD · 05-31-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

Better for them too? Blu-ray is already doing better, or rather not as poorly as HD DVD but both are doing very poorly. I have to hand it to you HD DVD enthusiasts, you guys sure try to make second place in a two team race sound great and suggest first place needs to hurry up or be left behind.

Chris

Mr. FUDD really has a way of puting things in perspective, doesn't he? How would be reacting if things were the other way around? This whole HD train has begun to show a little momentum but he has to piss on any news that shows a positive...

Chris Gerhard · 05-31-2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

The majority of the DVD Forum members clearly voted for HD DVD to be the next format or else it would not have been chosen. The whole purpose of the organization was to have only one format that you keep wanting. The problem is that some of the more upfront (CE companies instead of component companies) companies that are members wanted BD. Clearly the BD companies sided against the standards org that they are members of and didn't want to accept the majority rule vote.

The DVD Forum was created to give you what you wanted Chris. It was to limit movie media to ONE format. It just so happens to not be the format YOU want to have so you apparently do not think majority SHOULD rule.

It is all water under the bridge at this point though. I originally posted that when the other poster erroneously said that TOSHIBA did not go along with the majority which they clearly did.

I would have been happy with either but I don't care what the DVD forum wanted with the next generation format. Once the majority of participants, all but 2, decided to be involved with Blu-ray, I decided Blu-ray was the best option. I didn't have anything to do with it but believed it would be another disaster if two formats exist for the same thing. If you think the minority should dictate to the majority what should be done with products, that is your right. I just don't agree and the problem with the DVD forum's recommendation is that it wasn't acceptable to a high enough percentage, thus it should have died. No Fox, no Disney, and no Sony titles? What kind of home movie format is that? Fox comes to me and wants region coding and greater security, I respond with how I believe we can achieve that legal option.

Chris

kbaker2002de · 05-31-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I would have been happy with either but I don't care what the DVD forum wanted with the next generation format. Once the majority of participants, all but 2, decided to be involved with Blu-ray, I decided Blu-ray was the best option. I didn't have anything to do with it but believed it would be another disaster if two formats exist for the same thing. If you think the minority should dictate to the majority what should be done with products, that is your right. I just don't agree and the problem with the DVD forum's recommendation is that it wasn't acceptable to a high enough percentage, thus it should have died. No Fox, no Disney, and no Sony titles? What kind of home movie format is that? Fox comes to me and wants region coding and greater security, I respond with how I believe we can achieve that legal option.

Chris

I think what some of this speaks to is a disconnect between the mainstream consumer and the studios. Many of the studios picked Blu-Ray for selfish reasons, and a perceived greater upside. It is kind of like picking Ryan Leaf, real flashy a great on paper specimen with a lot of potential, but will it deliver. Now, Blu-Ray is #1 and that shouldn't surprise anyone because many early adopters will look for the format, display type etc with the greatest potential regardless of cost. The mainstream consumer is more cost conscious, and frankly I don't think most HDTV buyers even care about 1080P.

So that brings us to where we are, HD-DVD started strong, Blu-Ray caught up and surpassed due to PS3, software library and early adopters. Then Toshiba comes out with the G2 players, is able to put together 1 price cut, 1 rebate so now the player is $300 at BB, CC and $249 at BJ's and Costco. So people like myself who have been sitting on the fence will be more apt to jump in the fray and HD-DVD is catching up. I think that the mainstream doesn't care about Blu-Ray's better specs on paper, they care about cost vs. performance. If they see HD-DVD for $300, it is a better perceived value than Blu-Ray at twice the cost.

Chris Gerhard · 05-31-2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbaker2002de

I think what some of this speaks to is a disconnect between the mainstream consumer and the studios. Many of the studios picked Blu-Ray for selfish reasons, and a perceived greater upside. It is kind of like picking Ryan Leaf, real flashy a great on paper specimen with a lot of potential, but will it deliver. Now, Blu-Ray is #1 and that shouldn't surprise anyone because many early adopters will look for the format, display type etc with the greatest potential regardless of cost. The mainstream consumer is more cost conscious, and frankly I don't think most HDTV buyers even care about 1080P.

So that brings us to where we are, HD-DVD started strong, Blu-Ray caught up and surpassed due to PS3, software library and early adopters. Then Toshiba comes out with the G2 players, is able to put together 1 price cut, 1 rebate so now the player is $300 at BB, CC and $249 at BJ's and Costco. So people like myself who have been sitting on the fence will be more apt to jump in the fray and HD-DVD is catching up. I think that the mainstream doesn't care about Blu-Ray's better specs on paper, they care about cost vs. performance. If they see HD-DVD for $300, it is a better perceived value than Blu-Ray at twice the cost.

I don't know what a disconnect between the mainstream consumer and the studios means. There are about 75,000 DVD titles, the studios are offering titles the consumer wants. If you believe that the studios are wrong to use stronger DRM, that is the legal right they have and the consumer has the legal right to not buy products with excessive restrictions. That is how a free market should work. You can't force Fox to sell a product without the protection it deems necessary and Fox can't force the market to buy a product it is willing to sell. Personally, I am not concerned about the restrictions Fox requires but HD DVD didn't meet the requirement.

I would have preferred Toshiba made great Blu-ray players and tried for a big share of a much larger market with aggressive pricing. Things would be rolling along greatly now and nobody would be sitting on the fence. If Toshiba wants to sell products at a loss, that is fine with me. Aggressive pricing sure got DVD going despite no competing format.

Chris

kbaker2002de · 05-31-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I don't know what a disconnect between the mainstream consumer and the studios means. There are about 75,000 DVD titles, the studios are offering titles the consumer wants. If you believe that the studios are wrong to use stronger DRM, that is the legal right they have and the consumer has the legal right to not buy products with excessive restrictions. That is how a free market should work. You can't force Fox to sell a product without the protection it deems necessary and Fox can't force the market to buy a product it is willing to sell. Personally, I am not concerned about the restrictions Fox requires but HD DVD didn't meet the requirement.

I would have preferred Toshiba made great Blu-ray players and tried for a big share of a much larger market with aggressive pricing. Things would be rolling along greatly now and nobody would be sitting on the fence. If Toshiba wants to sell products at a loss, that is fine with me. Aggressive pricing sure got DVD going despite no competing format.

Chris

No, I get that. What I am saying is that given the choice, the mainstream consumer is going to pick what they percieve as a better value. They will see DVD player in HD for under $300 and won't care about everything else. That is all I am saying.

Chris Gerhard · 05-31-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbaker2002de

No, I get that. What I am saying is that given the choice, the mainstream consumer is going to pick what they percieve as a better value. They will see DVD player in HD for under $300 and won't care about everything else. That is all I am saying.

I agree many have done just that, but as a general statement, I don't know if that is correct. If they buy the player then try to play the Disney film they just purchased, they are going to be pissed.

Chris

05-30-2007, 02:39 PM	#77
Big Red High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 90	The funny thing about these price cuts is that if you look at it Blu-ray is coming down much more in price than HD DVD. After one year Blu-ray players has or is coming down in price by $400. But HD DVD has only come down by $100. I just think it's Blu-ray fans being a little scared that HD DVD is coming down to a more afforadble price quicker. And their just trying to discredit them as much as they can. Last edited by Big Red; 05-30-2007 at 02:42 PM.

05-30-2007, 02:44 PM	#78
dels28 Hoosier Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 687	I think the A2 is now avialable at 200 dollars less than the origianl price as is the XA2. I was able to get mine for 269 in March thanks to a CC pricing era. Now all I need is for wal-mart since they have the lowest prices of any of the stores i've visited to increase their titles for both formats and I'll be satisfied. __________________ Sony WEGA KDL-52XBR4 Daddy's Room Onkyo TX-SR705 Klipsch Synergy Series Quintet 100-Watt 5-Piece Home Theater Speaker System Klipsch 12" 650W Powered Subwoofer Logitech Harmony 880 HR 20-600& HR 21-200, Direct TV PS3 60GB, PS3 80GB HD-A30 HD-A2 Nintiendo Wii Sony WEGA KDF-55WF655 retired to family living room Ready Nas Pro Duo 1.5 TB Media Server

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Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	HD DVD's strongest selling point to date is the price of the players. As this is a war, you use your biggest guns anytime you can. Based on the reports coming from all over the USA, in the 30 days that the $100 rebate applies - Toshiba has an excellent chance of selling between 50,000 and 80,000 players. As we know that the attach rate for HD DVD is high. It would not surprise me to see the sales numbers of HD DVD movies spike dramatically over the next 30 days.