Single-Sided, Three-Layer TWIN Format Disc for DVD and HD DVD.

Robert D · 09-11-2006, 12:21 AM

I found this over at the AVS forum fyi.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../11/c4528.html

maicaw · 09-11-2006, 12:51 AM

Sounds like they have a problem though

Quote:

In a two-layer HD DVD configuration, the new TWIN disc has a 30GB HD DVD
capacity, plus 4.7GB of standard DVD capacity. Configured to maximize standard
DVD content, the disc can support 8.5GB on two layers, plus 15GB of HD DVD
content on the third layer.

**bruceames** · 09-11-2006, 03:15 AM

BD does have a problem now. Now HD DVD won't need to do combo discs using both sides.

This development pretty much guarantees that HD DVD will be here to stay.

Sorry BD.

Cygnus · 09-11-2006, 10:15 AM

If HD-DVD can't do dual sided disc with dual layer for both HD-DVD and standard DVD at an affordable price, that is a problem as well... Since that takes away one of the benefits of HD-DVD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

BD does have a problem now. Now HD DVD won't need to do combo discs using both sides.

This development pretty much guarantees that HD DVD will be here to stay.

Sorry BD.

**bruceames** · 09-11-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

If HD-DVD can't do dual sided disc with dual layer for both HD-DVD and standard DVD at an affordable price, that is a problem as well... Since that takes away one of the benefits of HD-DVD.

I was thinking of the potential, Cygnus. It WILL be affordable when it is needed. The nice thing is that it's not a flipper, so that it can have a label.

If the movie is too long, I guess they'd have to put the SD version on the other side (as before). But I think over 90% of movies would fit on a 4.7 gb.

Cygnus · 09-11-2006, 10:38 AM

How do you know that "It WILL be affordable when it is needed"?? And while you are at it, let me know the winning Big Game lotto number will be tomorrow...

Many movies (with deleted scenes, alternate ending, commentary, etc) today will not fit on a 4.7GB DVD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

I was thinking of the potential, Cygnus. It WILL be affordable when it is needed. The nice thing is that it's not a flipper, so that it can have a label.

If the movie is too long, I guess they'd have to put the SD version on the other side (as before). But I think over 90% of movies would fit on a 4.7 gb.

PFC5 · 09-11-2006, 10:52 AM

Cygnus:

We should ask that woman in NY who just won a $1 million scratch ticket for the SECOND time.

She won in 2002 and just won again. Geez, talk about luck!

PFC5 · 09-11-2006, 11:02 AM

Backward compatibility will definately help HD-DVD in any transition to the HD formats, and will solve a lot of retail shelf problams as well. Now THIS is a true trojan horse in the war.

It surprised me that they previously had this approved in the spec so that all current players should play them. That that is planning ahead for the format.

What ever happened to the BDA promising "combo" discs with BD & SD DVD on the same disc? I guess they have much more pressing problems to worry about first.

Cygnus · 09-11-2006, 11:35 AM

Heh..nice. The sad thing is, she probably spent all of the winnings from 2002. Unfortunately a million dollars do not stretch that far nowadays, esp after Uncle $am gets his cut. Most lottery winners wind up broke after a few years. The mega million here is over $100 million. Now I think that would last me a while

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Cygnus:

We should ask that woman in NY who just won a $1 million scratch ticket for the SECOND time.

She won in 2002 and just won again. Geez, talk about luck!

MrPorterhouse · 09-11-2006, 11:49 AM

So, let me get this straight. You have a triple layer disc, with either dual layer DVD plus single layer HD DVD or dual layer HD DVD and single layer DVD. The majority of movies on DVD do NOT fit on a single layer DVD, but can be compressed to fit, which reduces the quality. OR, you can use the dual layer DVD to fit the uncompressed movie, but then you'd have to compress the high def version to fit on a single layer HD DVD. They both have their compromises, but it'd probably be better to go with a dual layer HD DVD and just compress the DVD layer. I don't see this triple layer hybrid approach as a solution. It like the SACD hybrid discs, where nobody really gets utility out of the disc. People who want the SACD, just want the SACD and people who want the CD will just buy the CD. Its one of those things that makes sense on paper, but doesn't pan out in the real world.

PFC5 · 09-11-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPorterhouse

So, let me get this straight. You have a triple layer disc, with either dual layer DVD plus single layer HD DVD or dual layer HD DVD and single layer DVD. The majority of movies on DVD do NOT fit on a single layer DVD, but can be compressed to fit, which reduces the quality. OR, you can use the dual layer DVD to fit the uncompressed movie, but then you'd have to compress the high def version to fit on a single layer HD DVD. They both have their compromises, but it'd probably be better to go with a dual layer HD DVD and just compress the DVD layer. I don't see this triple layer hybrid approach as a solution. It like the SACD hybrid discs, where nobody really gets utility out of the disc. People who want the SACD, just want the SACD and people who want the CD will just buy the CD. Its one of those things that makes sense on paper, but doesn't pan out in the real world.

Like BD?

Just joking with you Mr. P (sort of).

From what I understand, MANY SD DVDs use DL just so that they do not have to re-setup for the extremely slight cost savings with SL over DL SD DVD mfg cost and most DO fit on a single layer, depending on the extras of course.

Also, even IF they had to compress the SD layer more, who would notice it on a 27" SDTV? Probably very few. It would affect those who have a larger (44"+) HDTV, but do not have a HD-DVD player yet though.

Everything is a compromise with just about everything, but this might not be a problem with studios wanting everyone to move to the much more secure HD formats anyway. They could look at this possible issue as a bonus to them.

Surely you could see this Mr. P since you like to look at things from the CE/studio's business side of things first & foremost.

**bruceames** · 09-11-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

How do you know that "It WILL be affordable when it is needed"?? And while you are at it, let me know the winning Big Game lotto number will be tomorrow...

Many movies (with deleted scenes, alternate ending, commentary, etc) today will not fit on a 4.7GB DVD.

Cygnus, how much extra do you think putting a third SD layer would add to manufacturing costs, once they get the process down (i.e. produce millions already) ? We're not even talking a buck here.

Pardon my optimism, but I think that this is a very good thing for HD DVD.

MrPorterhouse · 09-11-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

From what I understand, MANY SD DVDs use DL just so that they do not have to re-setup for the extremely slight cost savings with SL over DL SD DVD mfg cost and most DO fit on a single layer, depending on the extras of course.

Ummm, no. I backup every DVD I buy and most movies(for just the primary video and audio alone) take up about 6GB.

Quote:

Also, even IF they had to compress the SD layer more, who would notice it on a 27" SDTV? Probably very few. It would affect those who have a larger (44"+) HDTV, but do not have a HDDVD player yet though.

That was my point. If you are going to compress, you're better off compressing the DVD, as compressing to a 4.7GB DVD doesn't hit that much quality at all.

Why must you even mention BD at all? This thread is about triple layer HD DVD/DVD hybrids and has nothing to do with BD. You people are seriously sensitive or something. Not every thing under the sun has to be a Who is better contest or my dad can beat up your dad thing.

PFC5 · 09-11-2006, 01:42 PM

It was a joke Mr. P! Didn't you see the grinning icon?

I thought you liked jokes?

Maybe only when it doesn't involve BD?

MrPorterhouse · 09-11-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

It was a joke Mr. P! Didn't you see the grinning icon?

I thought you liked jokes?

Maybe only when it doesn't involve BD?

It doesn't matter to me, its just that this forum is so one-sided that anyone visiting can't possibly get an objective view point when BD gets slamed on nearly every single post, even in threads that have nothing to do with Blu-ray. I'm all for High Def and I'd like to see the negativity(joking or otherwise) stop or slow down. There are benefits to both formats and there are drawbacks too. We need to focus on what each format offers us, both now and into the future. And, I'm not saying only post roses and sweetness. There's plenty of threads for debating and opposition, but it doesn't have to carry over into every single thread.

It reminds me of political Negative campaigning. I hate it. I don't want to listen to adds on what Mr. So-and-So does wrong or how he is evil. Just tell me who you are and what you are going to do for the community.

09-11-2006, 12:21 AM	#1
Robert D High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 206	Single-Sided, Three-Layer TWIN Format Disc for DVD and HD DVD. I found this over at the AVS forum fyi. http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../11/c4528.html

09-11-2006, 10:52 AM	#7
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	Cygnus: We should ask that woman in NY who just won a $1 million scratch ticket for the SECOND time. She won in 2002 and just won again. Geez, talk about luck! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

09-11-2006, 11:02 AM	#8
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	Backward compatibility will definately help HD-DVD in any transition to the HD formats, and will solve a lot of retail shelf problams as well. Now THIS is a true trojan horse in the war. It surprised me that they previously had this approved in the spec so that all current players should play them. That that is planning ahead for the format. What ever happened to the BDA promising "combo" discs with BD & SD DVD on the same disc? I guess they have much more pressing problems to worry about first. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

09-11-2006, 01:42 PM	#14
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	It was a joke Mr. P! Didn't you see the grinning icon? I thought you liked jokes? Maybe only when it doesn't involve BD? __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

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09-11-2006, 03:15 AM	#3
bruceames Super Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 15,538	BD does have a problem now. Now HD DVD won't need to do combo discs using both sides. This development pretty much guarantees that HD DVD will be here to stay. Sorry BD.

09-11-2006, 11:49 AM	#10
MrPorterhouse Meat & Potatoes High DeF Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cedar Lake, IN Age: 38 Posts: 429	So, let me get this straight. You have a triple layer disc, with either dual layer DVD plus single layer HD DVD or dual layer HD DVD and single layer DVD. The majority of movies on DVD do NOT fit on a single layer DVD, but can be compressed to fit, which reduces the quality. OR, you can use the dual layer DVD to fit the uncompressed movie, but then you'd have to compress the high def version to fit on a single layer HD DVD. They both have their compromises, but it'd probably be better to go with a dual layer HD DVD and just compress the DVD layer. I don't see this triple layer hybrid approach as a solution. It like the SACD hybrid discs, where nobody really gets utility out of the disc. People who want the SACD, just want the SACD and people who want the CD will just buy the CD. Its one of those things that makes sense on paper, but doesn't pan out in the real world.