ps3 vs. toshiba hd-dvd players out already

siccivic420 · 05-17-2006, 03:18 AM

For the people that love sony for including blu-ray in the ps3 this seemed kind've interesting to me.it's an article about the toshiba hd-dvd player's out right now.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=17543
To maybe give us kind've an idea about how the ps3 will perform as a High def player since the ps3 has more powerful hardware then their hd-dvd player.Plus their hd-dvd player can only do dolby digital true hd(2 channel only)through the hdmi but the ps3 can do dolby digital true HD(8 channel)through it's hdmi 1.3 output.
also the toshiba hd-dvd player's have only sold 15,000 minus a few cause of some the problem's some people are haveing with them compared to 4 million playstation 3 blu-ray players that will be out by years end.
__________________

mfabien · 05-17-2006, 05:40 AM

siccivic420,

You might investigate the fact that HDMI version 1.3 is not here yet. The first BR to come out this summer will not have version 1.3 of HDMI and audio will be available in normal DD 5.1 and DTS surround only.

Cornbread · 05-17-2006, 05:48 AM

Also HD-DVD can already decode Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 and Blue Ray can't decode anything, you will need a new receiver for Blue Ray. Plus who cares about Playstation, Xbox will include HD-DVD and with Microsofts support in their new operation system you will see Windows Media Centers PCs with HD-DVD. Also the report that people are having problems with their Toshiba HD-DVD players is bogus, it was a false rumor started by the Blue ray camp, HD-DVD works flawlessly.

strawberry · 05-17-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siccivic420

For the people that love sony for including blu-ray in the ps3 this seemed kind've interesting to me.it's an article about the toshiba hd-dvd player's out right now.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=17543
To maybe give us kind've an idea about how the ps3 will perform as a High def player since the ps3 has more powerful hardware then their hd-dvd player.Plus their hd-dvd player can only do dolby digital true hd(2 channel only)through the hdmi but the ps3 can do dolby digital true HD(8 channel)through it's hdmi 1.3 output.
also the toshiba hd-dvd player's have only sold 15,000 minus a few cause of some the problem's some people are haveing with them compared to 4 million playstation 3 blu-ray players that will be out by years end.
__________________

I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself. Truth be told- we don't really have any idea how the PS3 will perform as a BR player. You're right that it has more powerful hardware than other players- but this was the case with the PS2 as well, and it was a pretty lousy DVD player by most standards.

Will the PS3 be a viable option for early BR playback? Sure.

Will it be preferable to most of the stand-alone BR/HD-DVD players on the market? Probably not.

winpitt · 05-17-2006, 07:46 AM

That only the higher end PS3 (if any) will be able to support ICT (Image Constraint Token) meaning that if studios start enforcing this (and it's likely that they will at some point) the less expensive PS3 will downsize all HD content to 1/4 full HD resolution, as component video cannot handle HDCP.

What that means is that since it's likely that a very large percentage of the PS3s sold will be of the lower cost model, they will have relatively minor impact on the BluRay vs HD-DVD battle (or perhaps the "will HD-DVD or BluRay survive battle")

strawberry · 05-17-2006, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

Also HD-DVD can already decode Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 and Blue Ray can't decode anything, you will need a new receiver for Blue Ray. Plus who cares about Playstation, Xbox will include HD-DVD and with Microsofts support in their new operation system you will see Windows Media Centers PCs with HD-DVD. Also the report that people are having problems with their Toshiba HD-DVD players is bogus, it was a false rumor started by the Blue ray camp, HD-DVD works flawlessly.

Yikes. You need to pull your head out, stop cheerleading for your favorite little brand, and look at reality for half a second.

#1.) BR can't decode anything? Really? You sure about that?
#2.) Xbox will not include HD-DVD. They're going to offer a peripheral add-on player for the 360 later this year- that's a very, very different scenario than integrating a drive into the actual premium 360 systems.
#3.) Windows support is not an important advantage for HD-DVD. BR has a much stronger presence in the PC hardware market than HD-DVD under the current landscape- which you fail to mention. Beyond that, the current DVD standard has never seen support from MS's operating systems- and it's done just fine.
#4.) I'd agree that stories of malfuntions with the Toshiba player are overblown- but, come on- they're NOT entirely bogus. It's a new product launch- the same thing happened when the 360 came out, it'll happen again when the first BR players launch, and again with the PS3. Just a fact of life, man.

strawberry · 05-17-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

What that means is that since it's likely that a very large percentage of the PS3s sold will be of the lower cost model

That's a bolder assumption than you might realize. It sure wasn't the case with the 360 between it's two models. The early adopting crowd, which will be the ones camping outside of the brick and mortar stores on Nov. 17th and the ones paying whatever retailers want for bundles, are going to be gunning for the $600 system.

Beyond that- it doesn't appear that we're going to see much support for the ICT constraint from any of the studios for a good while. The situation is too delicate right now- and I think, (or maybe I just hope...

) that they realize they can't cut off half of their potential target audience by rendering their displays obselete.

Beyond that- we know that only the $600 model will have an HDMI jack, but do we know for sure yet that it will not be possible for the $500 model of the PS3 to be upgraded with a breakout cable? Do we know if it's going to use an A/V multi-out cable like the 360 does? If so, I would think that an HDMI cable as a seperate purchase would be something that Sony would be interested in doing. MS will be doing this very thing for the 360 when the HD-DVD drive comes out. We know how these companies love thier accessories.

GLOW · 05-17-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

the less expensive PS3 will downsize all HD content to 1/4 full HD resolution

you mean 1/2 full HD resolution, right? err i suppose you would be right if "resolution" includes the scan method.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

What that means is that since it's likely that a very large percentage of the PS3s sold will be of the lower cost model, they will have relatively minor impact on the BluRay vs HD-DVD battle (or perhaps the "will HD-DVD or BluRay survive battle")

i believe blu-ray's wider selection of movies plus the ps3 bringing it into many homes will be a damaging blow to hd-dvd. if price is a major factor in the consumer's decision, and blu-ray remains the "high end" format pricewise, that may soften the blow.

i've bought 2 dvd players in the last few years that cost less than $70 and there is no competitor against dvd, i wonder how cheap blu-ray and hd-dvd players will get in the next 5 years. probably not much due to low penetration but the format war will possibly end up becoming a price war, so that will be interesting. i also wonder how long each of these formats will last, competition or no. how far off are holographic versatile discs for consumers? will DD become more popular than physical media anytime in the near future? these are questions that people who think blu-ray/hd-dvd is the new laserdisc (in-between format, if you will) are asking. ok, i'm rambling.

winpitt · 05-17-2006, 11:08 AM

No, I mean 1/4 full HD resolution.

I also don't think there will be a "price war" in the sense that it exists in other areas. There are just too many darn reasons why neither format is compelling from a general consumer point of view.

There IS competition in DVD. It's cross-vendor competition, combined with the economics of scale the drove prices down - NOT competition with another standard. Neither of these two formats will likely enjoy either facet of "competition" in the remotely near future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

you mean 1/2 full HD resolution, right? err i suppose you would be right if "resolution" includes the scan method.

i believe blu-ray's wider selection of movies plus the ps3 bringing it into many homes will be a damaging blow to hd-dvd. if price is a major factor in the consumer's decision, and blu-ray remains the "high end" format pricewise, that may soften the blow.

i've bought 2 dvd players in the last few years that cost less than $70 and there is no competitor against dvd, i wonder how cheap blu-ray and hd-dvd players will get in the next 5 years. probably not much due to low penetration but the format war will possibly end up becoming a price war, so that will be interesting. i also wonder how long each of these formats will last, competition or no. how far off are holographic versatile discs for consumers? will DD become more popular than physical media anytime in the near future? these are questions that people who think blu-ray/hd-dvd is the new laserdisc (in-between format, if you will) are asking. ok, i'm rambling.

winpitt · 05-17-2006, 11:12 AM

Nope - you're not making a valid comparison. The different models of 360 released really only meant differences in packaging, games and accessories that can be used immediately and would likely be purchased anyway by the majority of users. The differences in the models of the PS3 are absolutely not similar in that regard.

As for not being able to add HDMI, the answer is that Sony has specified that a converter will not be released. They are apparently not using any sort of "multi-cable" but instead a physical port.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberry

That's a bolder assumption than you might realize. It sure wasn't the case with the 360 between it's two models. The early adopting crowd, which will be the ones camping outside of the brick and mortar stores on Nov. 17th and the ones paying whatever retailers want for bundles, are going to be gunning for the $600 system.

Beyond that- it doesn't appear that we're going to see much support for the ICT constraint from any of the studios for a good while. The situation is too delicate right now- and I think, (or maybe I just hope...

) that they realize they can't cut off half of their potential target audience by rendering their displays obselete.

Beyond that- we know that only the $600 model will have an HDMI jack, but do we know for sure yet that it will not be possible for the $500 model of the PS3 to be upgraded with a breakout cable? Do we know if it's going to use an A/V multi-out cable like the 360 does? If so, I would think that an HDMI cable as a seperate purchase would be something that Sony would be interested in doing. MS will be doing this very thing for the 360 when the HD-DVD drive comes out. We know how these companies love thier accessories.

strawberry · 05-17-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

Nope - you're not making a valid comparison. The different models of 360 released really only meant differences in packaging, games and accessories that can be used immediately and would likely be purchased anyway by the majority of users. The differences in the models of the PS3 are absolutely not similar in that regard.

Yes, you're right- PS3 buyers will have even more incentive to get the premium version than 360 buyers do. I don't think that supports the idea that the $500 unit will be the higher seller, though.

Beyond that- I wasn't looking to compare the 360 models to the PS3 models so much as I was comparing the people who camped out for the 360 at launch, bought $1,000 online bundles and/or paid ridiculous sums of money on ebay for machines. That's the same demographic that will be buying the PS3 at launch, and they'll be looking for the $600 machine, not the $500 one. Early adopters aren't price conscious by traditional standards, and they aren't looking for a watered down experience with their new toys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

As for not being able to add HDMI, the answer is that Sony has specified that a converter will not be released. They are apparently not using any sort of "multi-cable" but instead a physical port.

Hadn't heard any clarification on that- thanks.

winpitt · 05-17-2006, 11:36 AM

The issue is that the early adopters - especially in the gaming market when dealing with an already high priced unit - will pay extra to get it fast, and to get things they can use fast. Instant gratification. Not necessarily investing for the future. So, because they won't get anything back from the "premium" model until some unknown date, there's little incentive. They're not looking for the $600 machine. They're looking for instant gratification. If they bought the lower end 360, they would then have gone right out and bought the same accessories anyway. Different than the PS3 solution. Plus, the PS3 will be priced higher to begin with, adding more on the markup market.

Just my 2 cents. Who knows what they'll do.

siccivic420 · 05-17-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

Nope - you're not making a valid comparison. The different models of 360 released really only meant differences in packaging, games and accessories that can be used immediately and would likely be purchased anyway by the majority of users. The differences in the models of the PS3 are absolutely not similar in that regard.

As for not being able to add HDMI, the answer is that Sony has specified that a converter will not be released. They are apparently not using any sort of "multi-cable" but instead a physical port.

they do have a multiport in the back of the ps3 for composite video,s-video,component video and the audio cables for the billions of people who still don't have hdtv's. the ps3 doesn't come out till nov.17 and they already said it will have hdmi 1.3 and will have built in decoding for dolby digital plus,dolby digital true HD,dts,but not dts hd for now but they could possibley do an update for it like their psp's.

PFC5 · 05-17-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winpitt

No, I mean 1/4 full HD resolution.

I also don't think there will be a "price war" in the sense that it exists in other areas. There are just too many darn reasons why neither format is compelling from a general consumer point of view.

There IS competition in DVD. It's cross-vendor competition, combined with the economics of scale the drove prices down - NOT competition with another standard. Neither of these two formats will likely enjoy either facet of "competition" in the remotely near future.

There already IS a price war IMO. I doubt Toshiba would have priced the unit at $500.00 IF there wasn't a format war. Do you?

Also, I do not think that Sony would be subsidize the studios on the cost of making BD discs if there was no format war to keep similar costs of BD movies versus HD-DVD movies.

As someone on another site said, do you think that BD players will keep their much higher prices IF BD only studios announce they are changing their minds and will do both formats? Except for Sony, the other BD player mfg will not/cannot match the prices of HD-DVD players because they do not have software/licensing revenue that could defray any player losses.

Toshiba does have licensing revenue so they are subsidizing the player cost which is why there are not many mfg of their players yet. The whole pricing landscape would be very different IF there was no format war IMO.

winpitt · 05-17-2006, 01:37 PM

I believe you are incorrect. Current specifications show a "sort of" multiport which will in fact include composite, component, s-video and audio for the lower end - but NOT HDMI.

To be clear, only the high end model with have HDMI and the lower end model is not reported to be upgradable to HDMI.

So the issue is (as mentioned before) that if you don't get the higher end model, you won't get HDMI, therefore no HDCP and no ICT - and you won't be able to upgrade the unit. That is, unless you've got some information that the rest of the industry doesn't have? If so, please let us know. I'm interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by siccivic420

they do have a multiport in the back of the ps3 for composite video,s-video,component video and the audio cables for the billions of people who still don't have hdtv's. the ps3 doesn't come out till nov.17 and they already said it will have hdmi 1.3 and will have built in decoding for dolby digital plus,dolby digital true HD,dts,but not dts hd for now but they could possibley do an update for it like their psp's.

05-17-2006, 07:46 AM	#5
winpitt High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 75	You should also recognize That only the higher end PS3 (if any) will be able to support ICT (Image Constraint Token) meaning that if studios start enforcing this (and it's likely that they will at some point) the less expensive PS3 will downsize all HD content to 1/4 full HD resolution, as component video cannot handle HDCP. What that means is that since it's likely that a very large percentage of the PS3s sold will be of the lower cost model, they will have relatively minor impact on the BluRay vs HD-DVD battle (or perhaps the "will HD-DVD or BluRay survive battle")

05-17-2006, 11:36 AM	#12
winpitt High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 75	Still don't agree The issue is that the early adopters - especially in the gaming market when dealing with an already high priced unit - will pay extra to get it fast, and to get things they can use fast. Instant gratification. Not necessarily investing for the future. So, because they won't get anything back from the "premium" model until some unknown date, there's little incentive. They're not looking for the $600 machine. They're looking for instant gratification. If they bought the lower end 360, they would then have gone right out and bought the same accessories anyway. Different than the PS3 solution. Plus, the PS3 will be priced higher to begin with, adding more on the markup market. Just my 2 cents. Who knows what they'll do.

Similar Threads to ps3 vs. toshiba hd-dvd players out already
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Blu Ray Vs HD-DVD Debate	Knight76	Blu-Ray Players	853	12-21-2011 06:29 PM
Upconversion players vs HD DVD, Blur-ray	jakebizz	High Definition News & Informative Articles	111	02-03-2011 09:19 AM
Why did HD DVD lose the Format War!!!	Super XP	High Definition Media	265	07-30-2008 03:56 AM
PS3 vs Toshiba A3 on SD upconversion	Superman	High Definition Media	22	06-11-2008 05:42 PM
Toshiba HD DVD Super Bowl Ad - Watch It Here	MidnightWatche	High Definition Media	49	02-05-2008 09:44 AM
HD-DVD or Blu-ray?	ActOfMercy	High Definition Media	74	02-02-2008 04:17 PM
TVPredictions.com - Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD: No Winner at CES	I WUV HD	High Definition Media	41	01-15-2007 10:21 AM

05-17-2006, 03:18 AM	#1
siccivic420 HD video game god Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: DENVER,colorado Posts: 416	ps3 vs. toshiba hd-dvd players out already For the people that love sony for including blu-ray in the ps3 this seemed kind've interesting to me.it's an article about the toshiba hd-dvd player's out right now. http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=17543 To maybe give us kind've an idea about how the ps3 will perform as a High def player since the ps3 has more powerful hardware then their hd-dvd player.Plus their hd-dvd player can only do dolby digital true hd(2 channel only)through the hdmi but the ps3 can do dolby digital true HD(8 channel)through it's hdmi 1.3 output. also the toshiba hd-dvd player's have only sold 15,000 minus a few cause of some the problem's some people are haveing with them compared to 4 million playstation 3 blu-ray players that will be out by years end. __________________ __________________ Main home theater Room [b] KURO PDP-6020 1080p[b]onkyo TX-sr875 receiver,Harmony 1000,xbox 360,Playstation 3 500gb, Emotiva ERC-1 cd player Panasonic BD35 Blu-ray player,OPPO dv-980 sacd/dvd-audio,Definitive Technology Mythos ST towers,Mythos 8 center,Mythos 1 towers and SVS pb12 ultra subLiving RoomPioneer KURO PDP-5080 768p plasma,Harmony 880,Denon 3803 receiver,Playstation 3 320gb,Axiom m60 towers ,Axiom 150,Axiom m22 bookshelfs ,Def.tech supecube reference sub Blu-ray's:66

05-17-2006, 05:40 AM	#2
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,095	siccivic420, You might investigate the fact that HDMI version 1.3 is not here yet. The first BR to come out this summer will not have version 1.3 of HDMI and audio will be available in normal DD 5.1 and DTS surround only. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

05-17-2006, 05:48 AM	#3
Cornbread High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 265	Also HD-DVD can already decode Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 and Blue Ray can't decode anything, you will need a new receiver for Blue Ray. Plus who cares about Playstation, Xbox will include HD-DVD and with Microsofts support in their new operation system you will see Windows Media Centers PCs with HD-DVD. Also the report that people are having problems with their Toshiba HD-DVD players is bogus, it was a false rumor started by the Blue ray camp, HD-DVD works flawlessly.