What Do You Want From A Next Gen Format

LordGamer · 05-15-2006, 07:38 AM

As it should be known by now, I retired from team BR after realizing that neither format (BR or HD-DVD) was bring anything I felt to be unique or a significant improvement over DVD. I'm starting this thread because I know some people out there have similar feelings as I do (see... You know both the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats may fail. ).

DVDs brought many advantages over VHS... ease of use, added content, simple storage, improved video and audio quality, etc. All of the features were qualities everyone could enjoy without having to upgrade their TV or surround sound setup. With the new HD formats, you're basically limited to visual and audio improvements which require additional hardware to be showcased.

To be honest, I don't really know what any new format could bring to the table that DVD doesn't offer now (within reason or wouldn't require additional changes). So, I wanted to see if any of you guys and gals had anything you would like to see a next gen media offer (not in relation to BR or HD-DVD, just looking for ideas in general)?

The only thing I could of think of would be a smaller size. Something the size of a Nintendo Gamecube disc for example. That way, we could in turn have smaller players and free up space. I would like to believe we could come up with more, as I know there is more than just a visual or audio step increase.
-----

By the way, if you believe HD-DVD or BR is enough, fine. I don't. So, while you are more than welcome to post why you believe their advantages are sufficient, understand the focus of this thread is for people that don't believe the features are. So, don't turn this into a battle. Don't start nothin', it won't be nothin'.

rudyusmc1980 · 05-15-2006, 08:45 AM

smaller doesn't really appeal to me, the 12 cm disc is just fine IMHO.

I would be very happy with HDDVD if it came out of the box with everything that was promised. I do not think we're ready for a harddrive based solution, but feel that it is a possibility in the future.

I feel a caddy is worthwhile. I see it being integrated into the case, so you just shove the case into the player. the disc never sees the light of day. I am constantly pissed off at getting blockbuster discs that look like they were used as cutting boards. the new coatings and whatever, I'm not so sure those will hold up to real world use.

IMpoor · 05-15-2006, 09:50 AM

There are a few benefits of HD content but I am with you. For now it is to new and more importantly to expensive. Then there is the format war. I will personally wait until the price drops and there is plenty of content available.

HD alone is the benefit. HDTV owners are starving for more content. HD is much better than DVD for newer movies. HD movie discs should be better than any broadcast HD because the broadcast HD tends to be more compressed then the video on the disc.

I really don't care about the extras on most DVDs anyway. In fact I never watch anything but the deleted scenes or alternate endings. Even then after wathcing them I usually understand why they were deleted in the first place.

strawberry · 05-15-2006, 10:03 AM

I think that the iHD and BD-J layers can really make the new formats seem like a big step forward once they actually see implementation. It will allow for disc navigation to be much more flexible and interactive. You can set the disc up to behave more like a website would, and make the special features on the disc much more interactive and/or tie them into the experience of watching the main title itself.

There's actually a lot of potential for the interactivity options of the two formats to take us in directions we can't currently see.

Or they could end up amounting to squat. Time will tell.

HDohioTV · 05-15-2006, 11:09 AM

I'm going to be on the "wait till '08" high def dvd bandwagon. By then, we'll have a better picture of which format is the leader and stand alone players will be able to read standard dvd's + cd-audio + mp3 + video cd + jpeg + mpeg + quiktime .... for ~ $200. Till then I'm all for OTA, HD-Cable, and the Nintendo Wii.

maicaw · 05-15-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordGamer

.... To be honest, I don't really know what any new format could bring to the table that DVD doesn't offer now (within reason or wouldn't require additional changes). So, I wanted to see if any of you guys and gals had anything you would like to see a next gen media offer (not in relation to BR or HD-DVD, just looking for ideas in general)?

Since the current DVD/CD players will accept smaller (compact) media as well as the 12cm physical media for all the other current audio and video formats including DVD-Ram - it seems logical to me that a combo Blu/Red player that decoded as many viable HD codecs Divx, WMVHD, etc in addition to the retail ones would suffice. My own desire is that it would read HDV Ts (and DV) at 25mb/s also. Audio encoding schemes (other than plain red/white stereo -which can be very good for classical music IMO) would need to use at least 1 of the legacy optical ones -say DTS and/or DD accepted by present HT audio equipment

Cornbread · 05-15-2006, 05:47 PM

HD-DVD has everything that I want in a format. It should be the dominant format for the next 10 years.

dontknowjack · 05-16-2006, 02:20 AM

But doesn't BR have more movies coming out for it's format? How can than it be a winner?

PFC5 · 05-16-2006, 10:43 AM

What if BR had a party and no one came because they wanted 2-3 times the money for the players? AND those players also required you to buy a new receiver to hear the new HD audio soundtracks?

I also heard that Sony is subsidizing the BR movie disc mfg costs to the studios, but if they won the format war they would stop doing this too so movie costs/rentals would go up. I think that is why you are currently not seeing the REAL cost of the BD movies yet.

strawberry · 05-16-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I also heard that Sony is subsidizing the BR movie disc mfg costs to the studios, but if they won the format war they would stop doing this too so movie costs/rentals would go up. I think that is why you are currently not seeing the REAL cost of the BD movies yet.

There would presumably be a drop in mfg costs by the time we got to that point, if we ever do get to that point. I'd be surprised if we see a sudden spike in prices 3 years down the road. People can always stop buying a product if it gets too pricey- doesn't matter if there's competition for it or not.

Cornbread · 05-16-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontknowjack

But doesn't BR have more movies coming out for it's format? How can than it be a winner?

No not really, in fact HD-DVD has about 10 movies out right now and Blue Ray has absolutely zero. By the end of the year the amount of movies will be a about a tie, that is, if Blue Ray ever does launch. Blue Ray has been plagued by considerable shortages, delays and manufacturing glitches. Plus there is already talk of a petition to get Blue Ray canceled.

PFC5 · 05-16-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

No not really, in fact HD-DVD has about 10 movies out right now and Blue Ray has absolutely zero. By the end of the year the amount of movies will be a about a tie, that is, if Blue Ray ever does launch. Blue Ray has been plagued by considerable shortages, delays and manufacturing glitches. Plus there is already talk of a petition to get Blue Ray canceled.

Where is this talk and who is behind it? I would love to hear it is coming from the studios, since I have a HD-A1 being delivered this week.

Cornbread · 05-17-2006, 06:00 AM

No nothing like that, I brought up the idea on another thread. I think if we could get a petition going and get enough people to sign it we might be able to get Sony to give up on their idiotic idea of Blue Ray. In the end the consumer will decide. Are any of you interested in signing this petition?

LordGamer · 05-17-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

No nothing like that, I brought up the idea on another thread. I think if we could get a petition going and get enough people to sign it we might be able to get Sony to give up on their idiotic idea of Blue Ray. In the end the consumer will decide. Are any of you interested in signing this petition?

The consumer will more than likely be the one making the decision, so why would there be a need for a petition?

Furthermore, lets cut through the fanboy-ness for a moment. If we (consumers) did only want one...shouldn't we pick the one that is more technically advanced and has overall more studio backing? Blu-ray.

A petition for either side would just give fanboys something to do in their spare time. Time will tell.

strawberry · 05-17-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornbread

No nothing like that, I brought up the idea on another thread. I think if we could get a petition going and get enough people to sign it we might be able to get Sony to give up on their idiotic idea of Blue Ray. In the end the consumer will decide. Are any of you interested in signing this petition?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just made my day.

Good luck with that.

05-15-2006, 07:38 AM	#1
LordGamer Lord of Gaming Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,796	What Do You Want From A Next Gen Format As it should be known by now, I retired from team BR after realizing that neither format (BR or HD-DVD) was bring anything I felt to be unique or a significant improvement over DVD. I'm starting this thread because I know some people out there have similar feelings as I do (see... You know both the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats may fail. ). DVDs brought many advantages over VHS... ease of use, added content, simple storage, improved video and audio quality, etc. All of the features were qualities everyone could enjoy without having to upgrade their TV or surround sound setup. With the new HD formats, you're basically limited to visual and audio improvements which require additional hardware to be showcased. To be honest, I don't really know what any new format could bring to the table that DVD doesn't offer now (within reason or wouldn't require additional changes). So, I wanted to see if any of you guys and gals had anything you would like to see a next gen media offer (not in relation to BR or HD-DVD, just looking for ideas in general)? The only thing I could of think of would be a smaller size. Something the size of a Nintendo Gamecube disc for example. That way, we could in turn have smaller players and free up space. I would like to believe we could come up with more, as I know there is more than just a visual or audio step increase. ----- By the way, if you believe HD-DVD or BR is enough, fine. I don't. So, while you are more than welcome to post why you believe their advantages are sufficient, understand the focus of this thread is for people that don't believe the features are. So, don't turn this into a battle. Don't start nothin', it won't be nothin'.

05-15-2006, 10:03 AM	#4
strawberry HD is the Lord. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 1,635	I think that the iHD and BD-J layers can really make the new formats seem like a big step forward once they actually see implementation. It will allow for disc navigation to be much more flexible and interactive. You can set the disc up to behave more like a website would, and make the special features on the disc much more interactive and/or tie them into the experience of watching the main title itself. There's actually a lot of potential for the interactivity options of the two formats to take us in directions we can't currently see. Or they could end up amounting to squat. Time will tell. __________________ Home Theater Setup ISF-Calibrated Hitachi 57S500 HDTV Denon 2807 AVR 7.1 JBL Venue Series Speaker System Toshiba HD-A1 PS3 60 Gig Xbox 360 Premium Moxi BMC 9022 DVR Logitech Harmony 880

05-15-2006, 11:09 AM	#5
HDohioTV NTSC Never Again Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: O-H-I-O Age: 35 Posts: 79	I'm going to be on the "wait till '08" high def dvd bandwagon. By then, we'll have a better picture of which format is the leader and stand alone players will be able to read standard dvd's + cd-audio + mp3 + video cd + jpeg + mpeg + quiktime .... for ~ $200. Till then I'm all for OTA, HD-Cable, and the Nintendo Wii. __________________ HDohioTV's HDTVs are 37" Olevia LCD, 27" Samsung CRT, 19" Westinghouse, 17" Gateway LCD and 15" Polaroid.

05-16-2006, 10:43 AM	#9
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	What if BR had a party and no one came because they wanted 2-3 times the money for the players? AND those players also required you to buy a new receiver to hear the new HD audio soundtracks? I also heard that Sony is subsidizing the BR movie disc mfg costs to the studios, but if they won the format war they would stop doing this too so movie costs/rentals would go up. I think that is why you are currently not seeing the REAL cost of the BD movies yet. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

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05-15-2006, 08:45 AM	#2
rudyusmc1980 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pensacola, Fl Posts: 712	smaller doesn't really appeal to me, the 12 cm disc is just fine IMHO. I would be very happy with HDDVD if it came out of the box with everything that was promised. I do not think we're ready for a harddrive based solution, but feel that it is a possibility in the future. I feel a caddy is worthwhile. I see it being integrated into the case, so you just shove the case into the player. the disc never sees the light of day. I am constantly pissed off at getting blockbuster discs that look like they were used as cutting boards. the new coatings and whatever, I'm not so sure those will hold up to real world use.

05-15-2006, 09:50 AM	#3
IMpoor High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 312	There are a few benefits of HD content but I am with you. For now it is to new and more importantly to expensive. Then there is the format war. I will personally wait until the price drops and there is plenty of content available. HD alone is the benefit. HDTV owners are starving for more content. HD is much better than DVD for newer movies. HD movie discs should be better than any broadcast HD because the broadcast HD tends to be more compressed then the video on the disc. I really don't care about the extras on most DVDs anyway. In fact I never watch anything but the deleted scenes or alternate endings. Even then after wathcing them I usually understand why they were deleted in the first place.

05-15-2006, 05:47 PM	#7
Cornbread High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 265	HD-DVD has everything that I want in a format. It should be the dominant format for the next 10 years.

05-16-2006, 02:20 AM	#8
dontknowjack High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 949	But doesn't BR have more movies coming out for it's format? How can than it be a winner?

05-17-2006, 06:00 AM	#13
Cornbread High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 265	No nothing like that, I brought up the idea on another thread. I think if we could get a petition going and get enough people to sign it we might be able to get Sony to give up on their idiotic idea of Blue Ray. In the end the consumer will decide. Are any of you interested in signing this petition?