HD DVDs with HD Audio

Jon B. · 02-22-2009, 07:42 PM

Are there any HD DVDs with HD audio codecs? It seems all of the HD DVDs I own are Dolby Digital Plus. Is there a list out there showing which each disk contains?

Thanks,

Chris Gerhard · 02-22-2009, 08:29 PM

Yes, there is a list and I have it bookmarked on another computer. If I recall correctly bout 30% of HD DVD's used either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. If someone doesn't provide it, I can get it tomorrow.

Chris

Jon B. · 02-22-2009, 08:36 PM

Thanks Chris.

Bigloww · 02-22-2009, 10:34 PM

Here is a list I have. It shows about 110 titiles that support Dolby True HD and about 15 with DTS HD.. It shows about 25% of HD DVD's having lossless codec, so Chis was very close with his estimate. I am not sure how updated it is but seems pretty close..

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio

Jon B. · 02-22-2009, 11:23 PM

Thanks Big. I really appreciate it. I am trying to determine if it would be worth it for me to get an XA2 or A35 so I can bitstream these codecs, as well as enjoy 1080p. I currently have an A3 and while I like it a lot, it leaves a little to be desired. I guess I have to blame my Panny BD35 for all of this, as I love its capabilites.

Looks like I have 4 HD DVDs now with lossless and would consider getting more.

Thanks again.

**PFC5** · 02-25-2009, 11:50 PM

DD+ IS a HD audio codec just like DTS-HD HR, but they are not lossless like DtHD or DTS-HD MA.

Chris Gerhard · 02-26-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

DD+ IS a HD audio codec just like DTS-HD HR, but they are not lossless like DtHD or DTS-HD MA.

I don't know who is calling DD+ an HD audio codec or even what that means but I have never called it an HD audio codec. It is a compromise codec used often by HD DVD and it is very good but it was used due to lack of capacity for something better and as far as I know is now a forgotten relic and I can't imagine it will ever be used again.

Chris

Chris Gerhard · 02-26-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigloww

Here is a list I have. It shows about 110 titiles that support Dolby True HD and about 15 with DTS HD.. It shows about 25% of HD DVD's having lossless codec, so Chis was very close with his estimate. I am not sure how updated it is but seems pretty close..

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio

I kept track throughout the format war, it was one of my talking points in favor of Blu-ray. Blu-ray used lossless audio over 70% of the time and HD DVD used it less than 30% of the time, it was a fact and worth mentioning. The factors in favor of HD DVD were never anything you could actually grab and show someone. It was always something to do with avoiding those awful companies that were part of the evil Blu Empire who were going to use DRM to brick your players, gain a controlling monopoly or some explanation about how the sky would start falling if Blu-ray won. I still have fun just thinking about the lunacy.

Chris

unotis · 02-26-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I kept track throughout the format war, it was one of my talking points in favor of Blu-ray. Blu-ray used lossless audio over 70% of the time and HD DVD used it less than 30% of the time, it was a fact and worth mentioning. The factors in favor of HD DVD were never anything you could actually grab and show someone. It was always something to do with avoiding those awful companies that were part of the evil Blu Empire who were going to use DRM to brick your players, gain a controlling monopoly or some explanation about how the sky would start falling if Blu-ray won. I still have fun just thinking about the lunacy.

Chris

It was one of the few advantages Blu-Ray did have over HD DVD, although at the time very few people had the equipment to take advantage of it, outside the people on this forum, but the regular Joe Six pack consumer really didn't care and most still don't.

Blu-Ray won and I support it totally now, but HD DVD was for the most part a more complete format at the format war time and in some ways still is.

Blu-Ray is trying to resolve and improve and get somewhat close to the features HD DVD had or would soon have offered if Toshiba hadn't pulled the plug.

What ultimately won the war for Blu-Ray was Toshiba's poor marketing and Sony's willingness to use huge amounts of money in the form of financial incentives and even bribes to get the studios and stores to support them over HD DVD.

Now don't start the old argument by trying to say Sony didn't in effect bribe their way to victory, just because they were smart enough to hide the transactions or call them something else doesn't mean it didn't happen.

**PFC5** · 02-28-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I don't know who is calling DD+ an HD audio codec or even what that means but I have never called it an HD audio codec. It is a compromise codec used often by HD DVD and it is very good but it was used due to lack of capacity for something better and as far as I know is now a forgotten relic and I can't imagine it will ever be used again.

Chris

Of course it is a HD audio codec just like DTS-HD HR is. They both are (less compressed) lossy formats that are much better than standard DD/DTS are. If you want to define HD audio as only lossless, then that is a different story, and inaccurate IMO.

Is DD+ & DTS-HD HR as good as the lossless DtHD & DTS-HD MA? No, but I bet 80%+ of the people that have HD DVD or BD have the equipment to actually hear the difference, or appreciate the difference unless the recorded volume level is different as that is all most hear as any difference and that is NOT an actual difference in what can be heard.

I think well over 70% of people only use TV speakers to listen to a movie and any improvement with lossless over DD+/DTS-HD HR would DEFINITELY be lost with that delivery system.

Chris Gerhard · 02-28-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Of course it is a HD audio codec just like DTS-HD HR is. They both are (less compressed) lossy formats that are much better than standard DD/DTS are. If you want to define HD audio as only lossless, then that is a different story, and inaccurate IMO.

Is DD+ & DTS-HD HR as good as the lossless DtHD & DTS-HD MA? No, but I bet 80%+ of the people that have HD DVD or BD have the equipment to actually hear the difference, or appreciate the difference unless the recorded volume level is different as that is all most hear as any difference and that is NOT an actual difference in what can be heard.

I think well over 70% of people only use TV speakers to listen to a movie and any improvement with lossless over DD+/DTS-HD HR would DEFINITELY be lost with that delivery system.

You can call it an HD audio codec, that is fine, I don't know whether that terminology means anything or not. I am certain it isn't an HD audio codec that the original poster was inquiring about since he indicates it isn't and he wants to know what HD DVD's used HD audio, meaning Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. Notice that HD is in included in the codec name for the lossless compressed audio codecs but HD is not in Dolby Digital Plus. There is a difference in terminology and I answered the question that was asked and didn't try to confuse the issue since I understood the question.

Chris

**PFC5** · 03-01-2009, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

You can call it an HD audio codec, that is fine, I don't know whether that terminology means anything or not. I am certain it isn't an HD audio codec that the original poster was inquiring about since he indicates it isn't and he wants to know what HD DVD's used HD audio, meaning Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. Notice that HD is in included in the codec name for the lossless compressed audio codecs but HD is not in Dolby Digital Plus. There is a difference in terminology and I answered the question that was asked and didn't try to confuse the issue since I understood the question.

Chris

So DTS-HD HR IS a HD codec despite having roughly the same lossy specs as DD+?

By your definition then all those upscaling SD DVD players are actually REAL HD players because "HD" is in the name/model number of most.

Yes I understood what he was asking too, but wanted to clarify on his use of terminology so that he could be correct in what/how he asks something in the future. I was trying to give him more correct info for his future use.

Chris Gerhard · 03-01-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

So DTS-HD HR IS a HD codec despite having roughly the same lossy specs as DD+?

By your definition then all those upscaling SD DVD players are actually REAL HD players because "HD" is in the name/model number of most.

Yes I understood what he was asking too, but wanted to clarify on his use of terminology so that he could be correct in what/how he asks something in the future. I was trying to give him more correct info for his future use.

Again, I don't care what you call an HD audio codec, I haven't said you were wrong. I have not given a definition of an HD audio codec, only the terminology I use. There are no DTS-HD HR HD DVD's as far as I know but that could certainly be called an HD audio codec. I believe the DTS lossy HD audio codec is well beyond Dolby Digital Plus which can be closer to standard Dobly Digital than DTS-HD HR at the lower end. I call DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD and lossless uncompressed PCM the HD audio codecs since that appears to me to be the generally accepted terminology. I just call the others lossy and leave off HD.

Chris

**PFC5** · 03-02-2009, 06:21 AM

Here is the info Chris:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ide_page6.html

Quote:

What are the new HD formats?

Linear PCM: LPCM has existed since the days of CDs, but now with HDMI's higher bandwidth, it can now carry 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio, as opposed to the 2 channel audio found on CDs. LPCM is uncompressed audio, so it requires a lot of storage space. Linear PCM 5.1/7.1 requires HDMI due to the increased bandwidth required that optical/SPDIF cannot handle.

Dolby Digital Plus: Also known as E-AC3 or DD+, this is a lossy compression format designed to replace the Dolby Digital AC3 system. The advantages of DD+ over AC3 are several encoder based enhancements, as well as support for higher bitrates and up to 13.1 channels of audio at 96 kHz with 24-bit depth. Up to 6 Mbps streams are supported. DD+ is mandatory for HD DVD, meaning all HD DVD players must be able to decode DD+ to LPCM or downmix to a legacy format. DD+ is only optional for Blu-ray, meaning all discs with DD+ audio must also carry a separate legacy AC3 track.

DTS-HD High Resolution Audio: DTS-HD HR is the DTS's answer to DD+. It is also a lossy format that supports up to 7.1 channels of audio at 96 kHz with 24-bit depth. Up to 6 Mbps streams are supported as well. DTS-HD HR support is optional on both Blu-ray and HD DVD players.

Dolby TrueHD: TrueHD is a lossless audio format employing the MLP technique. It features 8 channel support at 96kHz/24-bit with a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbps - most movies so far have only used 5 or 6 Mbps of the maximum allowed bandwidth. TrueHD is an optional audio standard for Blu-ray, while it is mandatory for HD DVD. All HD DVD players must be able decode Dolby TrueHD to LPCM up to 2 channels as part of the mandatory specifications, although all current (as of December 2007) HD DVD players will decode up to 8 channels of LPCM through HDMI output.

DTS-HD Master Audio: DTS-HD MA is a lossless audio format, and DTS's answer to Dolby TrueHD and goes one step further. It is designed to replicate a movie studio's master audio track, which signifies the highest level of audio quality achievable. It supports virtually unlimited channels of audio, while also supporting 96kHz/24-bit audio. Bandwidth support is up to a massive 24 Mbps. It also features a lossy "core" DTS soundtrack for legacy compatibility. DTS-HD MA is optional for both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

So the definition of HD audio DOEs include BOTH DD+ & DTS-HD HR. In fact those two lossy HD codecs are equal EXCEPT that DD+ can do up to 13.1 channels and DTS HR can only go up to 7.1. In practice they are the same but in theory DD+ could go up to 13.1 tracks but I don't know who would have 13.1 speakers in their home.

Several HD DVD titles DID have DTS HR with one of them being We Were Soldiers if my memory serves me.

You can have your own definition of what YOU want to include as a HD codec, but that is not what IS a HD codec. Nothing really to fight about here is there?

Jon B. · 03-03-2009, 01:25 AM

Thanks for the clarification guys. What I was after was the lossless codecs. However, good to know that the other two lossy codecs are considered HD.

Thanks again.

02-22-2009, 07:42 PM	#1
Jon B. High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 79	HD DVDs with HD Audio Are there any HD DVDs with HD audio codecs? It seems all of the HD DVDs I own are Dolby Digital Plus. Is there a list out there showing which each disk contains? Thanks,

02-22-2009, 10:34 PM	#4
Bigloww Chi Town Baby.. Da Bears. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In a van, down by the river. Posts: 5,130	Here is a list I have. It shows about 110 titiles that support Dolby True HD and about 15 with DTS HD.. It shows about 25% of HD DVD's having lossless codec, so Chis was very close with his estimate. I am not sure how updated it is but seems pretty close.. http://hddvdstats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio __________________ Commit to the Indian.. *In Loving Memory of Junkie, The Rizz, Eagle and the Boys.. They are gone (wasted in fact) but not forgotten..* Last edited by Bigloww; 02-22-2009 at 10:40 PM.

02-25-2009, 11:50 PM	#6
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,349	DD+ IS a HD audio codec just like DTS-HD HR, but they are not lossless like DtHD or DTS-HD MA. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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02-22-2009, 08:29 PM	#2
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,207	Yes, there is a list and I have it bookmarked on another computer. If I recall correctly bout 30% of HD DVD's used either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. If someone doesn't provide it, I can get it tomorrow. Chris

02-22-2009, 08:36 PM	#3
Jon B. High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 79	Thanks Chris.

02-22-2009, 11:23 PM	#5
Jon B. High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 79	Thanks Big. I really appreciate it. I am trying to determine if it would be worth it for me to get an XA2 or A35 so I can bitstream these codecs, as well as enjoy 1080p. I currently have an A3 and while I like it a lot, it leaves a little to be desired. I guess I have to blame my Panny BD35 for all of this, as I love its capabilites. Looks like I have 4 HD DVDs now with lossless and would consider getting more. Thanks again.

03-03-2009, 01:25 AM	#15
Jon B. High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 79	Thanks for the clarification guys. What I was after was the lossless codecs. However, good to know that the other two lossy codecs are considered HD. Thanks again.