HD DVDs with HD Audio

Chris Gerhard · 03-03-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Here is the info Chris:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ide_page6.html

So the definition of HD audio DOEs include BOTH DD+ & DTS-HD HR. In fact those two lossy HD codecs are equal EXCEPT that DD+ can do up to 13.1 channels and DTS HR can only go up to 7.1. In practice they are the same but in theory DD+ could go up to 13.1 tracks but I don't know who would have 13.1 speakers in their home.

Several HD DVD titles DID have DTS HR with one of them being We Were Soldiers if my memory serves me.

You can have your own definition of what YOU want to include as a HD codec, but that is not what IS a HD codec. Nothing really to fight about here is there?

I am not fighting with you and all that definition indicates is that those are considered new HD audio codecs, (meaning used on Blu-ray and HD DVD) not that they are the only HD audio codecs. The legacy DTS and Dolby Digital codecs can also be included with HD DVD and Blu-ray and could be called HD audio codecs as well by your definition, just not new HD audio codecs. If the definition of HD audio codec is just that it is used with one of the HD video formats, then there is no audio codec used by these formats that isn't an HD audio codec.

I will continue to consider only the lossless codecs as HD audio and you can use whatever terminology you want, I have never disagreed with your terminology for your use. If you have a definitive definition of what an HD audio codec is, please provide that definition, I don't consider your copying of that little segment a definitive definition of the term which again means little or nothing to me officially. If you look at the specifications of DD+ and DTS-HD HR, I think you will see that those codecs are not equivalent, the lower end for DD+ allows a lower bitrate.

Chris

JMS · 03-03-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I don't know who is calling DD+ an HD audio codec or even what that means but I have never called it an HD audio codec. It is a compromise codec used often by HD DVD and it is very good but it was used due to lack of capacity for something better and as far as I know is now a forgotten relic and I can't imagine it will ever be used again.

That may be true for Blu-ray, but the codec is far from dead.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/02...y-digital-plu/

http://www.dolby.com/about/news_even...8_vol9no2.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

I believe the DTS lossy HD audio codec is well beyond Dolby Digital Plus which can be closer to standard Dobly Digital than DTS-HD HR at the lower end.

Just because Blu-ray has seen fit to limit DD+ to 1.7 Mbps doesn't alter the fact that DD+ is capable of 13 full range channels at 6.0 Mbps and beyond. On the other hand, DTS-HD HR is limited to 7.1 channels at 6.0 Mbps.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/z...DDPlus_FAQ.pdf

http://www.dts.com/Technology/DTS-HD...ion_Audio.aspx

Chris Gerhard · 03-03-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

That may be true for Blu-ray, but the codec is far from dead.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/02...y-digital-plu/

http://www.dolby.com/about/news_even...8_vol9no2.html

Just because Blu-ray has seen fit to limit DD+ to 1.7 Mbps doesn't alter the fact that DD+ is capable of 13 full range channels at 6.0 Mbps and beyond. On the other hand, DTS-HD HR is limited to 7.1 channels at 6.0 Mbps.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/z...DDPlus_FAQ.pdf

http://www.dts.com/Technology/DTS-HD...ion_Audio.aspx

That is good information and I didn't know Europe was going to use DD+ for HDTV. Hopefully it will become common everywhere, it is very good and an improvement over standard DD. What I was saying was that I didn't expect DD+ to be used for HD media as the best option for any given release going forward. HD DVD used it often. The lowest bitrate I have seen used for DTS-HD HR is 1.5Mbps while the lowest bitrate for DD+ is far lower than that which is the basis for my comment that at the lower end, DTS-HD MA offers much higher bitrates. Both use constant bitrates and I don't think DTS-HD MA provides for anything as low as DD+ but I can't find the specifics on the lower end. The upper end is the same. As far as 13.1 channels, I don't think that means anything for HD media since neither format can go beyond 7.1.

I still don't know if the terminology HD audio codec has any meaning beyond including all audio codecs used for HD video which wouldn't exclude the legacy codecs.

Chris

**PFC5** · 03-03-2009, 10:14 AM

If you want to define "HD audio" as only being lossless codecs that is fine. I will just use the definition that it is codecs that are better/higher than the standard DD/DTS, which would include DD+ & DTS-HD HR.

Basing it on how low the bit rate allowed as the definition doesn't make sense IMO, since even DTS-HD MA allows 640kbps with the base portion of the codec. It is the extension layers built into it that brings it beyond that AFAIK.

Here is a link to the differences between the to HD formats which has a table of audio formats as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...l_disc_formats

I do not think there IS a definitive definition of "HD audio" and when I Google it I come up with only computer audio formats.

Chris Gerhard · 03-03-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I do not think there IS a definitive definition of "HD audio" and when I Google it I come up with only computer audio formats.

That is what I have been saying all along, I don't know what the term means officially, only what this OP meant and what I generally see when someone is talking about HD audio codecs. It is never DD+ that is being asked about when I respond to that question.

Chris

Chris Gerhard · 03-25-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by standyer

Just want to know the professional cd player and HD DVD player,which one is better for sound test???

Probably the professional CD player, what is the model?

Chris

03-03-2009, 10:14 AM	#19
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,382	If you want to define "HD audio" as only being lossless codecs that is fine. I will just use the definition that it is codecs that are better/higher than the standard DD/DTS, which would include DD+ & DTS-HD HR. Basing it on how low the bit rate allowed as the definition doesn't make sense IMO, since even DTS-HD MA allows 640kbps with the base portion of the codec. It is the extension layers built into it that brings it beyond that AFAIK. Here is a link to the differences between the to HD formats which has a table of audio formats as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...l_disc_formats I do not think there IS a definitive definition of "HD audio" and when I Google it I come up with only computer audio formats. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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