anyone catch the new Michael Moore movie sicko?

ClashFan · 07-15-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

Nice post.

He was right on the money.

Shame on them.

I must admit, I was fully in favor of the war in Iraq. I thought we were fighting terrorism and would find WMD in Iraq. Instead, we are in a mess and now reports are that the Taliban and Al Qaeda are growing strong again....sickening.

Yeah, yeah we toppled a dictator.

Fool me once, shame on you -- Fool me twice, shame on me. Well, I won't (and haven't) been fooled again.

Sorry for the cliches at the end, there.

junehhan · 07-15-2007, 02:56 PM

Now you consider what I have to say nonsense, or is it because my views don't agree with yours? I agree that I am hard to read, because English is not exactly my strong subject. Since when did it become the norm to double space stuff on the internet? I double space my academic papers, and would least expect to be required to do so on the internet. After all as you said, this is the internet and not a thesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol Pete

June,

Your posts are hard to read.

It's the internet, not a thesis.

Double space, keep it short, simple. Nobody wants to spend time reading paragraph after paragraph.

Especially when it is nonsense like yours.

There is no point in trying to even have a discussion with you.

I have a different opinion and as usuall you elitists automatically think i'm writing nonsense. I am simply expressing my opinion and don't really care whether everyone agrees with me or not. My days as a political activist have been long over as politics is a disgusting subject. I no longer care nor can I stomach it as it makes me want to barf. You are talking to a former democrat who became a republican and was so sickened to death that I am now a pseudo-neo-libertarian. This is perhaps why politics is banned from being discussed on this forum, because it can create an intense and intolerant atmosphere.

You are one of the misguided 28% who admire the emperor and worship his every word.

No, I am one of the 28% who admires the emperor, but am also rather angry at the same time(too many complex reasons to explain) as i'm an extreme fiscal conservative. I am more angry at the fair-water backstabbing republicans than I am at him though as their constant bickering is why we havn't accomplished hardly anything seriously significant. The unity that was once there no longer exists in the interest of personal glorification. The unification of the republican party that literally dominated the legislative branch no longer exists.

If you have not come to your senses by now, there is no hope for you.

Or perhaps I have a different opinion than you do? My opinions are very economically oriented as thats how I think.

If you think malpractice is the solution you obviously know very little about health care.

Again a case of you reading what you want to read from my posts. I never said it was the end all be all solution to this problem, but only a start as it has started the process of acknowledging that a problem exists. You have to start somewhere, and you need to tackle all problems starting from one point.

I work in the business. What I stated, all of it, was true.

Good for you, and keep up the good work. Sometimes things need to change and I hope that you will help lead this change in an economically responsible manner.

Whether you choose to believe it or not I can't do anything about.

Please do not take offense. My post is not intended to offend, merely to educate, enlighten and entertain.

I would rather make friends then enemies.

Funny way you have of making friends when you insult me? I would like to make friends as I don't care that we disagree as long as we can agree that we'll disagree. Either way, i'm likely taking out my frustration unnecessarily on you guys lately as i'm not getting along with this bastard neighbor of mine who keeps me up all night, throws some sort of muslim or arabic party with loud music and all these people coming over at night, and really pissing me off.

We can agree to disagree.

ah802 · 07-15-2007, 04:07 PM

Flogging a dead horse..

CNN responds to the Micheal Moore open letter... giddy-up.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movi...pta/index.html

Pistol Pete · 07-15-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junehhan

Now you consider what I have to say nonsense, or is it because my views don't agree with yours? I agree that I am hard to read, because English is not exactly my strong subject. Since when did it become the norm to double space stuff on the internet? I double space my academic papers, and would least expect to be required to do so on the internet. After all as you said, this is the internet and not a thesis.

Thank you for your comments.

I almost feel guilty as this string has become hijacked. It was supposed to be about the movie Sicko.

The once great Republican party has been hijacked by extremists and that was and is a sad day for America.

And, that's all I will say about that.

However, to keep the subject on health care, may I suggest you and others on the site do some site searches on rising cost of health care and reasons for the health care crisis and learn what others are saying that have researched the subject thoroughly.

You may be surprized.

Continuing the subject, local, state and federal governments comprize a big part of the health care system that includes Medicare, Medicaid and indigent people.

These contributors dwindle back more and more funding as funds become increasingly sparce.

As the baby boomers age (me and maybe you), it will create an even more bigger drain on Medicare (and SSN) that will exacerbate the problem even more.

Private insurance cannot make up the difference as they negotiate with hospitals low rates for the privledge of using their enrollees.

These contracts are a small percentage of the patients bill.

The only one who gets the full bill is the guy who has no insurance and he then can't afford to pay it going into default.

Malpractice insurance coverage is such a small part of the problem it is not even worth discussing.

Uninsured patients, everdwindling reimbursements from state, federal and private insurers and undocumented patients who pay little if anything at all. That's where the real problems lie.

That's what needs to be addressed.

As I said, with the boomers aging, it is not going to get better it is going to get worse.

Please, do some google searches. Don't just take my word for it, read for yourself.

junehhan · 07-15-2007, 06:15 PM

I'm very aware that this is going to become a HUGE problem with continually declining fertility rates throughout the world. What has angered me is how the media outlets I watched cover the big US hitting 300 million people as a sign of overpopulation, which couldn't be further from the truth. We are now at the replacement fertility rate, and are likely to start heading into an era of negative population growth if this continues as the trend in other countries. Unfortunately, its hard to persuade people to have more babies when the costs of having children are expensive, not to mention reduction in liesure time. I have read many studies that predict liesure time has increased and will continue to increase, but I don't buy that even though one of the proponents of that theory is a nobel Prize winner. What this means is that our structure will be very funnel like in the future where a very large upper funnel will need to be supported by a thin narrow base of younger people. I agree that something has to be done, and we need to start somewhere. I just don't buy this entire Michael Moore and to a lesser extent Obama approach to medical care as it may not be economically feasible. I have not and will not watch any crap Moore puts out, but that doesn't mean his stuff isn't getting torn apart by both partisan and non-partisan organizations. What I do know is that my generation is going to be headed for some rough times(i'm talking really BAD) based on the projections I see, and somewhat predict myself.

I used to be a democrat until they became a party overrun with left wing extremists that border on the radicalist ideals of minority groups like the Green or Socialist parties. I became extremely conservative at that point in life, which partially had to do with me starting to have to pay taxes(i'm a fiscal conservative). Now I feel like the Republican party has lost their way and backbone and can no longer support them. They have become everything they are not supposed to be as i'm sick of governments that cannot operate in a fiscally responsible manner. I really like Bush, Condi Rice, and especially have a lot of respect of Dick Cheney(don't ask me to explain). I am a big supporter of the Iraq War, but am a bit irritated at the methods and results they have not achieved yet. I'm confident, but an weary because of the amount of money that is being spent every month along with the lives being lost to bring these perverted Islamic extremists under control. After all, my brother just got back from a tour and one of my best friends is getting ready to head back over. But I can't stand these people who run the legislative branch irresponsibly. All of the supposed reforms still havn't solved all of this bickering and constant pork-barelling that goes on which wastes money that is not theirs to spend. Now i've gone off on a serious tangent...............

ah802 · 07-16-2007, 12:11 PM

Your post well presents your position but flies in the face of the populace. A 2007 poll conducted by Zogby International (I never heard of it, but it's worth noting) listing the top 10 things America wanted most, but can't have.

#9. Universal Health Care.
#2. Pulling Troops out of Iraq.
#1 The Impeachment of George W. Bush

http://www.geekarmy.com/geekblog/pol...but-cant-have/

Scoob · 07-16-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSNY FN

Here are the rankings according to the WHO and the US ranked near last in infant mortality rate at 6.5 that was as bad or worse than many 3rd world countries.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

That is WAY oversimplifying this whole issue. I'm glad that the WHO thinks that France, Italy and San Marino have better health systems than us. Unfortunately they aren't comparing apples to apples. None of those tiny countries have 20 MILLION illegals in their country or a huge burden of millions of welfare recipients as we do. I do agree our system is flawed and needs reform. Also, the WHO is an arm of the dysfunctional UN.

F91 · 07-16-2007, 06:14 PM

Junehan- The definition of big War supporter is : Sign up, get a gun and go get some.
Not ready for that? The State department web site has a jobs listing for all sorts of civilian jobs in Iraq.
Then you could be an "up close supporter".

Pistol Pete · 07-16-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F91

Junehan- The definition of big War supporter is : Sign up, get a gun and go get some.
Not ready for that? The State department web site has a jobs listing for all sorts of civilian jobs in Iraq.
Then you could be an "up close supporter".

WOW!!!

**PFC5** · 07-16-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoob

Specialized equipment? Sorry, but countries with socialized medicine do NOT have more specialized equipment. The competition in the US is what keeps our medical equipment cutting edge. In fact I have been doing a lot of reading about the european countries with socialized medicine. One of the problems, especially in the UK, is that the government doesn't update the equipment as often as they should. Often times, patients get diagnostic tests on outdated imaging machines. Also, if you look at those countries, two groupings of patients get the shaft. Cancer patients and heart patients. I apologize for not providing links, but I read stats on probably 40 different sites. When a woman gets breast cancer in the US, there is a 25% mortality rate. In the UK gets breast cancer, there is a 48% mortality rate. That is about double the death rate in the UK. The same goes with heart disease. In the UK mortality from heart attacks is 35% higher. You know why? They do far less angiograms to screen for coronary artery disease. Thats great you say, they saved a lot of money by doing less procedures right? Well sure, at the expense of many lives. Bottom line, they don't screen half as well, because the GOVERNMENT decides if you get a certain test or not. Moore talks about CEO's of health agencies here deciding people's fate. Well folks how would you like to put your life in the hands of the buracratic US government. One more point. My friends grandfather went to see Sicko. He is an immigrant from Cuba. He said it was laughable to see how they portrayed Cuban hospitals. He said the hospital the showed in Cuba was one for the government aristocrats and normal hospitals are a disgrace where patients get pathetic care. So go ahead, believe Mr. Hollywood Michael Moore and put your life in the hands of the US government.

Excellent info you provided. Thanks!

junehhan · 07-16-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F91

Junehan- The definition of big War supporter is : Sign up, get a gun and go get some.
Not ready for that? The State department web site has a jobs listing for all sorts of civilian jobs in Iraq.
Then you could be an "up close supporter".

Some of those jobs pay VERY well and I would be tempted if I wasn't already tied into my final year of school which is going to be rather hard. I may already have a job offer with one of our military's contractors as a VIP at the company I was talking with told me he would be willing to set me up with a job as soon as my degree is done. Of course I replied that i'll have to think as i'm more interested in going straight into graduate school. Even if the pay if very good, a graduate degree sets me up for more potential down the road...

**PFC5** · 07-16-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

On the other hand, it's ok for those that cannot afford insurance and even those that have it to be denied care ? That is what is wrong here! Insurance companies control what care we get. Would be ok if your mother was denied care because some insurance person decided that whatever the ailment she has is not covered and she is turned away?

I guess it comes down to WHO you want making the decision about what medical care is allowed. The bean counters at the insurance companies, or the government worker who would most likely be less sympathetic than the IRS.

The best solution IMO is to have a nationwide pool of insurance that has every health ins company drawing from a NATIONAL pool for what the rates are to be instead of companies with a young average age for workers getting lower rates and the company with middle aged workers getting high rates or being denied access to their insurance.

Anyone that gets free health care in the hospital should be required to PROVE citizenship before getting coverage. Sorry, but I just do not think illegal aliens should have ANYTHING given to them for free that LEGAL citizens have to pay for. I have compassion for the poorer people who are here LEGALLY. I have NONE for those here ILLEGALLY.

We should also stop having all US citizens paying much higher prescription drug costs so that the rest of the world gets lower drug costs. Most people do not even realize that Canada, UK, France, etc that DO have national health care have negotiated lower RX drug costs with the drug companies who then recover that cost by hitting the US health insurance companies (or uninsured people) with the additional costs.

I also think there should be limits on malpractice settlements. Sure people who have been wronged should be "reimbursed" but has anyone ever tried to watch a daytime tv channel and NOT got bombarded with mostly commercials for attorneys advertising malpractice services? There is HUGE amounts of money wasted in legal costs/settlements that is driving ALL insurance rates up. I have several doctors for clients and they pay ridiculous percentages of their total revenue towards malpractice insurance that can be as much as 50% depending on the type of practice they have. Would anyone pay 50% of the car costs per year to insure their cars? How about 50% of your annual mortgage payments as a cost of house insurance?

People make mistakes and they did with my father in diagnosing his strokes before he died. If the doctors had done their jobs, he would have lived years longer with a much higher quality of life, but he wouldn't think of suing someone for simply making a mistake. We ALL make them and to hold doctors to a so much higher standard and not accept that they can make mistakes too is crazy.

**PFC5** · 07-16-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F91

The highest Federal tax bracket in the US is 35%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_bra...ets_in_the_USA

What it doesn't include is the SS tax at 7.65% (15.3% if you are self employed), then add in the state taxes, and you can easily be over 50% not even counting all the hidden/stealth taxes like gas tax, communication taxes, etc. etc. that are taxed at the fed, state and even the local level in some areas.

Another thing that your link doesn't cover from quickly looking at it is that once you go over $156,400.00 in gross income if single they start eliminating deductions like exemptions/Itemised deductions etc. being phased out so you have no deductions for mortgage interest, R.E. Taxes, Charities, etc.

Then add in the alternative minimum tax for any deductions that may be left after the phaseout and you are looking at paying tax on EVERY dime you make with no deductions and no exemption for even yourself. Just look at the final tax amount you paid and divide that into your GROSS income to see what percentage YOU paid. Now eliminate ALL deductions, exemptions, credits for children etc, and look at what YOU would pay IF you were over a certain income level.

Sound complicated? It is and THAT is why I have a job.

F91 · 07-17-2007, 12:23 PM

So, you a a big "vicarious" War supporter?
That's not too strenuous, is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by junehhan

Some of those jobs pay VERY well and I would be tempted if I wasn't already tied into my final year of school which is going to be rather hard. I may already have a job offer with one of our military's contractors as a VIP at the company I was talking with told me he would be willing to set me up with a job as soon as my degree is done. Of course I replied that i'll have to think as i'm more interested in going straight into graduate school. Even if the pay if very good, a graduate degree sets me up for more potential down the road...

**rbinck** · 07-17-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

What it doesn't include is the SS tax at 7.65% (15.3% if you are self employed), then add in the state taxes, and you can easily be over 50% not even counting all the hidden/stealth taxes like gas tax, communication taxes, etc. etc. that are taxed at the fed, state and even the local level in some areas.

Bear in mind that even though the SS/MC tax for employees is 7.65% out of your paycheck, your paycheck is already adjusted, either intentiionally or unintentionally, for the matching 7.65%. If your employer didn't have to pay it, they could increase your salary by that amount, or decrease their prices by that amount. That is what I call one of the many "stealth" taxes that the government has skillfully disguised as a seemingly non-tax. That is why if you are self employed you get to pay both portions. They couldn't hide it and still collect it.

07-15-2007, 04:07 PM	#63
ah802 Visual Arts Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,241	Not to be preceived as one sided. Flogging a dead horse.. CNN responds to the Micheal Moore open letter... giddy-up. http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movi...pta/index.html

07-15-2007, 06:15 PM	#65
junehhan High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 5,663	I'm very aware that this is going to become a HUGE problem with continually declining fertility rates throughout the world. What has angered me is how the media outlets I watched cover the big US hitting 300 million people as a sign of overpopulation, which couldn't be further from the truth. We are now at the replacement fertility rate, and are likely to start heading into an era of negative population growth if this continues as the trend in other countries. Unfortunately, its hard to persuade people to have more babies when the costs of having children are expensive, not to mention reduction in liesure time. I have read many studies that predict liesure time has increased and will continue to increase, but I don't buy that even though one of the proponents of that theory is a nobel Prize winner. What this means is that our structure will be very funnel like in the future where a very large upper funnel will need to be supported by a thin narrow base of younger people. I agree that something has to be done, and we need to start somewhere. I just don't buy this entire Michael Moore and to a lesser extent Obama approach to medical care as it may not be economically feasible. I have not and will not watch any crap Moore puts out, but that doesn't mean his stuff isn't getting torn apart by both partisan and non-partisan organizations. What I do know is that my generation is going to be headed for some rough times(i'm talking really BAD) based on the projections I see, and somewhat predict myself. I used to be a democrat until they became a party overrun with left wing extremists that border on the radicalist ideals of minority groups like the Green or Socialist parties. I became extremely conservative at that point in life, which partially had to do with me starting to have to pay taxes(i'm a fiscal conservative). Now I feel like the Republican party has lost their way and backbone and can no longer support them. They have become everything they are not supposed to be as i'm sick of governments that cannot operate in a fiscally responsible manner. I really like Bush, Condi Rice, and especially have a lot of respect of Dick Cheney(don't ask me to explain). I am a big supporter of the Iraq War, but am a bit irritated at the methods and results they have not achieved yet. I'm confident, but an weary because of the amount of money that is being spent every month along with the lives being lost to bring these perverted Islamic extremists under control. After all, my brother just got back from a tour and one of my best friends is getting ready to head back over. But I can't stand these people who run the legislative branch irresponsibly. All of the supposed reforms still havn't solved all of this bickering and constant pork-barelling that goes on which wastes money that is not theirs to spend. Now i've gone off on a serious tangent............... __________________ X360 Gamertag junehhan Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player -Klipsch RSW10 Subwoofer -Pioneer VSX1016TXVK reciever -Klipsch Synergy Quintet III 5 channel speakers AIM: jhhan80 HD-DVD's: Loving it! BD's: When we get a reasonably priced BDP with lossless decoders Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state, they forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone - Frederich Bastiat, 1848

07-16-2007, 12:11 PM	#66
ah802 Visual Arts Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,241	Of course someone once said democracy is just mob rule. Your post well presents your position but flies in the face of the populace. A 2007 poll conducted by Zogby International (I never heard of it, but it's worth noting) listing the top 10 things America wanted most, but can't have. #9. Universal Health Care. #2. Pulling Troops out of Iraq. #1 The Impeachment of George W. Bush http://www.geekarmy.com/geekblog/pol...but-cant-have/

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07-16-2007, 06:14 PM	#68
F91 Plasmatic Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 2,784	Junehan- The definition of big War supporter is : Sign up, get a gun and go get some. Not ready for that? The State department web site has a jobs listing for all sorts of civilian jobs in Iraq. Then you could be an "up close supporter".