anyone catch the new Michael Moore movie sicko?

ah802 · 07-11-2007, 01:11 PM

I've seen the movie but as a Canadian, most of it is lost on me. We have issues with our health care system and I was looking for the outside perspective. I found in the movie that many Americans view the Canadian system as much better, which I would have to agree.. but looking at the British and French system.. we have a way to go. As a movie it's pretty boring from my perspective, but clearly shows the negatives of profit taking in the health care system.

Hopefully some political effort will tackle this issue soon... and make doctors the ultimate decision makers. Health should be a right for everyone regardless of their ability to pay.

bboncorr · 07-11-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah802

I've seen the movie but as a Canadian, most of it is lost on me. We have issues with our health care system and I was looking for the outside perspective. I found in the movie that many Americans view the Canadian system as much better, which I would have to agree.. but looking at the British and French system.. we have a way to go. As a movie it's pretty boring from my perspective, but clearly shows the negatives of profit taking in the health care system.

Hopefully some political effort will tackle this issue soon... and make doctors the ultimate decision makers. Health should be a right for everyone regardless of their ability to pay.

isnt that how the canadians, french, and british people reacted when moore started talking to them about american health care v.s. their own. wasnt the reaction we pay more in taxes but who cares where covered in the worst times of our lifes. its also funny how he shows hillary clinton got a hand out after she agreed to drop the health bill she was working on or how the guy who was the leading man trying to get a health bill passed ended up resigning not long after bush signed the bill only to become a C.E.O. making 2 million a year at a health insurance company. now years later all we have gotten from the bill was higher costs and insurance companies profit even more due to that bill.

after watching that movie i told my girl if i ever get to sick im moving to france or london. i told her if she got sick i would do the same for her. if it would take us another 5%-10% out of our paycheck to get free 100% covered health care it would be worth it (i know its not free but it has to come from somewhere). you figure most people have to pay premiums and something out of each check anyways. most employers dont pay full health and the ones that do are either high paying jobs or wont cover major stuff or are part of the worst health insurance companies to deal with when something goes wrong. in the end that pretty much adds up to the same and where not covered nearly as good. maybe even a tax break for those who option for there own health care.

this is a spoiler for those who dont want to see still.

i loved how one guy was trying to get a hearing implant in his daughters ear but the insurance company called it experimental for implants to be put in 2 years. they only agreed to accept 1 implant. so the father wrote a letter to the C.E.O. talking about how Michael Moore was doing this doc. and he was going to be part of it. he then goes on to say the letter asked how the C.E.O. would like to see himself on camera in that letter. well a few days later the C.E.O. himself calls the father and leaves a message stating there would be no more issues and his daughter will be covered for both ears. the C.E.O. even admitts he read the letter at the begining of the message.

its things like that which show our system is crazy. it took a father to threaten a C.E.O. of his insurance company to help his daughter do something most of us take for granted.

ah802 · 07-11-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboncorr

after watching that movie i told my girl if i ever get to sick im moving to france or london. i told her if she got sick i would do the same for her.

There's misconception about transferability of health... In Canada, if you are a visitor and get sick, you're expected to pay the bill. A U.S. visitor broke her arm after a fall on a bike (some sort of bicycle movement), the bill was $10,000; thankfully the bike club chipped in and the bill was paid. You need 'landed' status before the bill is picked up.... and landed means 'healthy immigration' status as confirmed in the application to become a citizen, you're not likely to pass immigration if you're sickly. On a side note: I have seen Canadian health cards for sale in U.S. classifieds.

Might be worth while to have dual citizenship... country of choice, marriage seems to be the ticket for some

bboncorr · 07-11-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah802

There's misconception about transferability of health... In Canada, if you are a visitor and get sick, you're expected to pay the bill. A U.S. visitor broke her arm after a fall on a bike (some sort of bicycle movement), the bill was $10,000; thankfully the bike club chipped in and the bill was paid. You need 'landed' status before the bill is picked up.... and landed means 'healthy immigration' status as confirmed in the application to become a citizen, you're not likely to pass immigration if you're sickly. On a side note: I have seen Canadian health cards for sale in U.S. classifieds.

Might be worth while to have dual citizenship... country of choice, marriage seems to be the ticket for some

yup that is what someone did in the movie (claimed common law marriage). the canadian system is different then the european system though. thats why i chose to say im going to europe instead of canada. i got alot of family in canada (canidian indian decent) so it wouldnt be hard for me to pack up and go there but i wouldnt want to wait.

HiramAbiff · 07-11-2007, 05:53 PM

$10,000? So you mean socialist health care isn't any cheaper at all but simply hides the cost in taxes? Gasp!

F91 · 07-11-2007, 06:24 PM

I plan on paying to see the movie, no worries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboncorr

F91 i was directing this^^^^^^^^^ to you.

F91 · 07-11-2007, 06:28 PM

My ex Boss almost died from internal bleeding while in Paris. He was in intensive care for almost a week there. Out of pocket expense-0.00$
Lesson- Don't eat the escargot!

junehhan · 07-11-2007, 09:07 PM

Fortunately, I have no intention of seeing this as I don't expect him to buck his trend of putting together a montage of lies and details taken way out of context into what he claims is a documentary. Nearly ever detail in his previous doc's have been refuted by various media watchdog organizations from non-partisan, to some partisan organizations.

The common mistake that people make is that the healthcare system is much better in other countries because its free. Of course we know that its not free at all when you look at the disproportionate rate of taxes they pay. Something you don't often hear about in the media is that many services including some necessary ones are rationed as a result in these socialist countries. The people who work in the healthcare industry compensate by often reducing the quantity of service they provide. I was reading an article last year that showed that many services from knee/hip/joint replacements to cataract operations to heart operations had a backlog with waiting times that can be regionally very long. What this article also showed was that a socialized health care system may not work at all in our country due to social reasons. The biggest factor they showed was that American's are more willing to seek medical care for a variety of issues much more often than in countries like Europe. This article showed that many residents in these socialized countries were found to be much less likely to seek medical services especially when it wouldn't be considered extremely urgent. If this has any weight, it could show that the cost of offering universal health care could be astronomically higher than in other countries. Changes will need to be made to make healthcare more affordable in our country, but much caution needs to be exercised as the laws of economics will dominate how the healthcare industry will react. The biggest reform in my opinion must be to look at changing to way the AMA certifies doctors in our country. I believe they are an organization/union that may have too much power as they have much say in how many students a med school program can accept at universities, who can be certified to become what kind of doctor, and the numbers. It's not hard to see when you look at how there is a dire shortage of especially specialists in some regions of our country.

Pistol Pete · 07-11-2007, 09:43 PM

Well guys,

Since folks are giving their opinion, let me throw mine out there.

Fox news watchers? Michael Moore haters? Fox, unbiased?

Ah, sorry to spoil the party. Obviously, I found the home of the 28%ers.

Gee, where to start? Er, ok, Michael Moore. Fahrenheit 911. Hmmm. Ok, let's get serious for just one moment.

Did it turn out he was right in what he was talking about? Hello, 28%ers!

Yes. It turned out he was.

No point in even commenting on anyone who watches Fox news. After all King Cheny has every TV he is near on that station. Nuff said.

I have not yet seen the movie. I work in health care and I see much of what's wrong with our system and there is much wrong with our system.

Before you knock the guys that bring problems up and try and enlighten people like Mr. Moore and Mr. Gore, think about the 28%ers and who they support. Geniuses.

HiramAbiff · 07-11-2007, 09:51 PM

So if you're an anti-socialist you're a Bush lover? It's not that simple.

**PFC5** · 07-11-2007, 10:06 PM

Michael Moore is a mocumentary maker not a documentary maker. He twists things and only shows what he wants you to see to reach HIS conclusion.

Oh, and he is an A$$.

That is all I am going to say about him or his POS mocumentaries.

Pistol Pete · 07-11-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiramAbiff

So if you're an anti-socialist you're a Bush lover? It's not that simple.

I had to go back and read your posts to answer appropriately.

Sorry if I offended you by including you as a 28%er. Not many people have the courage or foolishness to admit that nowadays.

However, if you are one of those kind gentlemen that like to throw the word socialist around as if it is a bad word, let me respond.

The idea that government has a role in the health, welfare and safety of it's people is not new.

In fact, there are examples of it everywhere on the federal level, local and state governments.

Obviously, taxes are used to fund programs or did you think fire and police services are free?

A civilized society will look for ways to improve life for all of it's citizens. That includes the aged, infirmed and poor.

Because we are a capitalistic society, and, I think that a good thing, we have the haves, have nots and the pay check to pay check guys.

Social security was created to help the aged have a means to live out their last years without becoming beggars on the street.

Medicare was created to allow them health insurance. Medicaid or MediCal in California was designed for the poor.

Unfortunately, the cost of health care has risen to the point where millions of Americans cannot afford health insurance.

Whose fault is it? There's? Government? How about we try not to look for blame but find solutions?

We are spending billions of dollars each month in Iraq. And, we are paying for it by borrowing it. Kinda like mortgaging the future of our children for sand. Brilliant. Ah, the 28%ers. You gotta luv em.

Could we not find a way to use that money better to help the poor, needy, aged and infirmed?

To me, I wonder, where is the outrage? Is it not also a moral issue?

I can't sit by and stay silent when so many suffer and die while others smoke fat cigars, chase women after Sunday church, steal from the poor and scheme on how to make even more money.

They can take my taxes. Use it to save lives and not take them.

That's what I think.

bboncorr · 07-12-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junehhan

Fortunately, I have no intention of seeing this as I don't expect him to buck his trend of putting together a montage of lies and details taken way out of context into what he claims is a documentary. Nearly ever detail in his previous doc's have been refuted by various media watchdog organizations from non-partisan, to some partisan organizations.

The common mistake that people make is that the healthcare system is much better in other countries because its free. Of course we know that its not free at all when you look at the disproportionate rate of taxes they pay. Something you don't often hear about in the media is that many services including some necessary ones are rationed as a result in these socialist countries. The people who work in the healthcare industry compensate by often reducing the quantity of service they provide. I was reading an article last year that showed that many services from knee/hip/joint replacements to cataract operations to heart operations had a backlog with waiting times that can be regionally very long. What this article also showed was that a socialized health care system may not work at all in our country due to social reasons. The biggest factor they showed was that American's are more willing to seek medical care for a variety of issues much more often than in countries like Europe. This article showed that many residents in these socialized countries were found to be much less likely to seek medical services especially when it wouldn't be considered extremely urgent. If this has any weight, it could show that the cost of offering universal health care could be astronomically higher than in other countries. Changes will need to be made to make healthcare more affordable in our country, but much caution needs to be exercised as the laws of economics will dominate how the healthcare industry will react. The biggest reform in my opinion must be to look at changing to way the AMA certifies doctors in our country. I believe they are an organization/union that may have too much power as they have much say in how many students a med school program can accept at universities, who can be certified to become what kind of doctor, and the numbers. It's not hard to see when you look at how there is a dire shortage of especially specialists in some regions of our country.

all im gonan say is see the movie. alot of what you stated was brought up in this movie. he also let americans living in those countries tell him what they have found in that system. alot of what you heard about waiting in other countries is just not true.

JohnnyTex · 07-12-2007, 01:13 AM

Quote: