Hardware: The PC Build Thread

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 01:27 AM

I thought we needed a topic on PC builds.

For starters, I guess I can describe the process for anyone who doesn't know.

- Basically, if you can put an SD card into a digital camera and use a screwdriver for basic tasks, you can build a PC with zero fuss.

-Everything is very easily inserted and swapped. It's all plug and play. There's no soldering involved, it all just snaps in. I assume everyone knows this, but I figured it best to post anyways.

What You Will Need
*if you have a newer PC already with a dual core processor and a motherboard that had a PCIe x16 slot, you're already good on everything but the GPU.

- A case. Cases vary in price more than anything in a build. I've never spent a ton of money on a case, but I don't go dumpster diving either. Sizes range from full desktop size, to as small as a Wii.

- A power supply. Don't skimp too much here, but the high performance ones are a bit overrated IMO. Go for over 500w at least.

- A motherboard. There is a decision to be made here. (I'll weigh the pros and cons later in the post.). What type of CPU will you be using? AMD or Intel? Also, determine what GPU you'll be using so the onboard chipset matches. ATI and Nvidia are your choices. Also, what size case will you be using? For a real gaming PC, you'll want full ATX size to get good airflow. But you can put a respectable little rig together in smaller packages.

-CPU. AMD or Intel. The big pro for Intel right now is speed. They're smoking AMD, but you'll pay a small premium. The extra speed is a bit moot in my opinion since most games run fine on AMD speeds and are mainly taxing the GPU. Consider AMD if you want to save a few bucks and aren't going for complete enthusiast settings. I use AMD. Also, AMD owns ATI now, so they have a special application to 'fuse' the CPU and GPU. The benchmarks haven't shown dramatic improvement, but you can get a few extra frames in some games with it.

-GPU. Nvidia or ATI. ATI is by far a better overall 'bang for the buck', but Nvidia get's better drivers earlier. Period. The driver support isn't even close, but ATI's raw power per dollar can usually overcome the Nvidia optimization. Also, games that use the PhysX API will have to run it off the CPU with ATI cards. With Nvidia it runs off the card. This is a big deal in games like Mirror's Edge. It uses a ton of PhysX stuff and runs smoother on Nvidia hardware.

As far as model numbers go, if you're going ATI, you want a card in the 4000 series. Nvidia's newest line is the 200 series.

-RAM. Another "don't skimp but don't get the expensive crap" item. 4GB should suffice. No use for more on a 32 bit OS. 8GB if you really want to shine. 16GB if you're me and have issues.

-Hard Drive. The expensive ones seem to crap out faster. Get a Western Digital (non Raptor). If you're a crazed enthusiast who wants to pick up speed anywhere he can get it, buy a SSD to run your games off. It's a complete waste of money, but some people (me) do it anyways.

-Speakers. Get some good one's. Creative T 20s or T 40s are great or anything by M-Audio. Anything less in uncivilized. I run audio out to a stereo receiver and use some pretty good Polk full size bookshelf speakers. It's mighty sweet. Don't be that guy with the Logitech speakers. You don't wanna be that guy.

- Mouse. Nothing wireless in FPS games. I use a basic Microsoft optical mouse. Best mouse ever (feel-wise). If you're going extreme, buy a performance mouse with a high DPI (sensitivity). Some even let you change DPI on the fly for those sniping moments when you want to slow it down.

-Soundcard? Nah. Most Mobo's do a fine job these days. Soundcards are dead unless you're recording music.

-Optical Drive. OEM DVD-RW drives are fine. I have a couple BD drives, but I'm me, so...yeah.

-Steam. It's the first thing you install.

-Nice headphones/mic. I'm painfully lacking those.

-Wired Xbox 360 controller. Assassin's Creed 2 is going to look way better at 1920x1080, 100fps with 8xAA.

Realistically, if you're building from the ground up you can sneak out as low as $500, but $600 is the entry level sweet spot. By entry level, I mean SMOKING anything a console can do.

Don't forget it can double as a great HTPC.

So, if you know PCs, post some good links to prices.

If you don't know PCs but are interested in the best possible video game experience, ask away. We'll be happy to help.

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 02:48 AM

I'll add to Kam's post:

Case: cases are pretty much a personal thing design wise, when you're paying big bucks you're paying for niceties inside like removeable motheroboard trays, tool-less assembly, windows, etc. Look for a case that has the potential for good airflow and is big enough for *you* to work in. Keep in mind most PC enthusiasts on a budget will re-use their cases so get something you can stand to look at for quite a while if this is you.

PSU: Kamspy says high rated PSU's are overkill... well yes and no. If you are planning to (or might in the future) go to a dual vid card solution you'll need that extra power (no don't run out and buy a 1KW PSU

) If you *know* you're not going to go with dual cards then yes high rated PSU's are not only overkill but become increasingly inefficient the larger the disparity between maximum output and actual power draw is. A good rule of thumb is to give yourself 25-35% headroom for your power needs.

Video Cards: I like Nvidia cards personally (though I'll get whatever works best) One thing to keep in mind if you like/want to playback h.264 encoded video on your pc is that using the CoreAVC codec combined with a proper Nvidia GPU you can use Nvidia CUDA to assist in the decoding. I use this personally and it my cpu barely registers any use while playing back such video (just thought I'd throw that out there)

Things to keep in mind when deciding what card to get:

What resolution are you aiming at playing at?
What kind of (how demanding) are the games you plan on playing?
Will it fit in my freaking case!?!
Do I have enough power for this card?

You can find plenty of reviews on cards and what kind of relative performance they get in many popular games by a simple google search.

I'll give a quick run down of some good cards in low to top categories (as of right now, pricing and (relative) performance can change quickly with the introduction of new cards to the market.

Low end (under $100 lowest to best)
These cards will all run most games pretty well at 1680x1050 resolutions at decent graphics settings. The 4830 will run *most* games at 1920x1200 at lower settings

Ati 4670
Nvidia 9600gt
Ati 4830

Mid-range (under $200, lowest to best)
These cards will run almost anything at 1920x1200 well, with a few games requiring slightly lowered settings)

Nvidia GTS 250
Ati 4850
Ati4870
Nvidia GTX 260

Over $200 (damn you're rich son!) These cards are high powered, should be able to run anything at 2560x1600 resolutions with very few titles requiring you to scale back on the settings. When you're looking at spending this much on a card you should consider if going SLI/Crossfire would be of benefit to you. I'd like to help out with that but I have never personally owned a dual vid card solution so...

Ati 4850x2. This is a monster, crossfire on a single card for around $250!
Nvidia GTX 295, essentially SLI on a single card solution that rings up at $500. If you're even considering this monster card you need to send me some of the excess cash you have pronto.

Between the 4850x2 and the GTX 295 would be pairs of ati 4870's and Geforce GTX 260's (which would be about $350'ish) If your motherboard is SLI/Crossfire capable and you want that kind of power but feel like saving $150'ish dollars then those would be viable options.

HDD's: No you don't need a raptor drive.. If you need the speed on a budget and your motherboard allows it you can just run two plain old 7200rpm drives in a RAID0 array (use both drives as one drive) If you plan on doing this a third larger drive should be used for storing anything important to you on, if either of the drives in teh RAID0 array fails *ALL* data *WILL* be lost.

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 02:56 AM

I have a kilo PS.

Yeah. The $130-ish cards will run your:

Call of Duty
Fallout 3
Mass Effect
Dead Space
Left 4 Dead

type stuff waaaaay better than a console. >60fps on every game is really something you'll get attached to. The difference will really make you boot the old boxes up less once you're use to it.

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 02:58 AM

Oh yeah.

Get a big sexy 24" monitor and a damn comfy computer throne.

Sitting ~12" away from a 24" screen fills up much more of the field of vision that sitting ~9' away from a 50".....so you won't be really gaming on a smaller screen in terms of perception.

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 03:27 AM

Another point:

Since Microsoft is giving out the release candidate of Windows 7 right now, you don't even have to pay for an operating system up front.

Hell, I'm still running a longhorn beta on all my computers.

MikeRox · 05-13-2009, 09:06 AM

Nice kam, now do one for UK people in real money

(I've a feeling your $200 GPUs will be £200 over here tho

) I'm seriously considering this as a little pet project, I did build my own little system just before I started at uni.

Mase · 05-13-2009, 10:52 AM

sweet thread, perhaps I will build my own, I mean all I want to do is DL porn and play Left4Dead with you guys on Steam... I mean what more can a guy ask for????

Soo 500-600 huh, what sites are usually the best price wise? I know of newegg and ummmmm I go to Frys electronics often, they seem to have some decent deals... Where else, oh and get ready for a lot more questions from me

awol · 05-13-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mase

sweet thread, perhaps I will build my own, I mean all I want to do is DL porn and play Left4Dead with you guys on Steam... I mean what more can a guy ask for????

Soo 500-600 huh, what sites are usually the best price wise? I know of newegg and ummmmm I go to Frys electronics often, they seem to have some decent deals... Where else, oh and get ready for a lot more questions from me

How did you change your name?????

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 11:07 AM

newegg is pretty much the best here in the U.S. You might save a dollar or two somewhere else, but the custom serivce at Newegg makes it worth it. It's still all waaay under retail. Think of them as the Amazon for computer parts.

MikeUKRox:

UK:
EBuyer.com
Aria.co.uk
NovaTech.co.uk
Scan.co.uk
Misco.co.uk
Microdirect.co.uk

these are your stores. I don't know if they carry fish and chips as well as computer parts, but I know they have the best UK pricing on computer parts.

Mase · 05-13-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

How did you change your name?????

I asked a forum admin who forwarded my request to the tech people who own/run the board..

Mase · 05-13-2009, 11:37 AM

ok im on Newegg now what do I choose first? mobo, processor? I am seeing a lot of asus boards and remmeber hearing good things on them, I prefer intel even though I dont know why, but whats a good combo for my uses.. I dont do anything taxing although with a new system I may start gaming more and various other things..

**kamspy** · 05-13-2009, 11:41 AM

Gigabyte and ASUS are both top notch makers. MSI does a good job too.

Just make sure the socket matches the CPU you're getting, and the onboard graphics match the brand of your GPU.

Newegg has some good 'cpu+mobo' combo deals.

Mase · 05-13-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

How did you change your name?????

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

Gigabyte and ASUS are both top notch makers. MSI does a good job too.

Just make sure the socket matches the CPU you're getting, and the onboard graphics match the brand of your GPU.

Newegg has some good 'cpu+mobo' combo deals.

You lost me at socket, but I will look for combo deals as im sure I cant screw that up

Thanks Kam and Pinoy for all your advice thus far. If your ever in the Tempe area look me up, the brew is on me

eck979 · 05-13-2009, 01:08 PM

I always bought a lot of hardware from here: http://www.pricewatch.com/

Haven't bought anything for a while but prices were always VERY competitive.. read best.
Enjoy.

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mase

sweet thread, perhaps I will build my own, I mean all I want to do is DL porn and play Left4Dead with you guys on Steam... I mean what more can a guy ask for????

Soo 500-600 huh, what sites are usually the best price wise? I know of newegg and ummmmm I go to Frys electronics often, they seem to have some decent deals... Where else, oh and get ready for a lot more questions from me

Somewhere in that price range, keep in mind you usually end up spending a little more the first time you build, but as long as you buy some good stuff a lot of it can be used over the next time (and I'm sure you plan on having a computer for a good portion of your life)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

Gigabyte and ASUS are both top notch makers. MSI does a good job too.

Just make sure the socket matches the CPU you're getting, and the onboard graphics match the brand of your GPU.

Newegg has some good 'cpu+mobo' combo deals.

Those are my fav mobo manufacturers as well, and I have an aversion to Jetway, Zotac, and (slightly)ECS.

05-13-2009, 01:27 AM	#1
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	Hardware: The PC Build Thread I thought we needed a topic on PC builds. For starters, I guess I can describe the process for anyone who doesn't know. - Basically, if you can put an SD card into a digital camera and use a screwdriver for basic tasks, you can build a PC with zero fuss. -Everything is very easily inserted and swapped. It's all plug and play. There's no soldering involved, it all just snaps in. I assume everyone knows this, but I figured it best to post anyways. What You Will Need *if you have a newer PC already with a dual core processor and a motherboard that had a PCIe x16 slot, you're already good on everything but the GPU. - A case. Cases vary in price more than anything in a build. I've never spent a ton of money on a case, but I don't go dumpster diving either. Sizes range from full desktop size, to as small as a Wii. - A power supply. Don't skimp too much here, but the high performance ones are a bit overrated IMO. Go for over 500w at least. - A motherboard. There is a decision to be made here. (I'll weigh the pros and cons later in the post.). What type of CPU will you be using? AMD or Intel? Also, determine what GPU you'll be using so the onboard chipset matches. ATI and Nvidia are your choices. Also, what size case will you be using? For a real gaming PC, you'll want full ATX size to get good airflow. But you can put a respectable little rig together in smaller packages. -CPU. AMD or Intel. The big pro for Intel right now is speed. They're smoking AMD, but you'll pay a small premium. The extra speed is a bit moot in my opinion since most games run fine on AMD speeds and are mainly taxing the GPU. Consider AMD if you want to save a few bucks and aren't going for complete enthusiast settings. I use AMD. Also, AMD owns ATI now, so they have a special application to 'fuse' the CPU and GPU. The benchmarks haven't shown dramatic improvement, but you can get a few extra frames in some games with it. -GPU. Nvidia or ATI. ATI is by far a better overall 'bang for the buck', but Nvidia get's better drivers earlier. Period. The driver support isn't even close, but ATI's raw power per dollar can usually overcome the Nvidia optimization. Also, games that use the PhysX API will have to run it off the CPU with ATI cards. With Nvidia it runs off the card. This is a big deal in games like Mirror's Edge. It uses a ton of PhysX stuff and runs smoother on Nvidia hardware. As far as model numbers go, if you're going ATI, you want a card in the 4000 series. Nvidia's newest line is the 200 series. -RAM. Another "don't skimp but don't get the expensive crap" item. 4GB should suffice. No use for more on a 32 bit OS. 8GB if you really want to shine. 16GB if you're me and have issues. -Hard Drive. The expensive ones seem to crap out faster. Get a Western Digital (non Raptor). If you're a crazed enthusiast who wants to pick up speed anywhere he can get it, buy a SSD to run your games off. It's a complete waste of money, but some people (me) do it anyways. -Speakers. Get some good one's. Creative T 20s or T 40s are great or anything by M-Audio. Anything less in uncivilized. I run audio out to a stereo receiver and use some pretty good Polk full size bookshelf speakers. It's mighty sweet. Don't be that guy with the Logitech speakers. You don't wanna be that guy. - Mouse. Nothing wireless in FPS games. I use a basic Microsoft optical mouse. Best mouse ever (feel-wise). If you're going extreme, buy a performance mouse with a high DPI (sensitivity). Some even let you change DPI on the fly for those sniping moments when you want to slow it down. -Soundcard? Nah. Most Mobo's do a fine job these days. Soundcards are dead unless you're recording music. -Optical Drive. OEM DVD-RW drives are fine. I have a couple BD drives, but I'm me, so...yeah. -Steam. It's the first thing you install. -Nice headphones/mic. I'm painfully lacking those. -Wired Xbox 360 controller. Assassin's Creed 2 is going to look way better at 1920x1080, 100fps with 8xAA. Realistically, if you're building from the ground up you can sneak out as low as $500, but $600 is the entry level sweet spot. By entry level, I mean SMOKING anything a console can do. Don't forget it can double as a great HTPC. So, if you know PCs, post some good links to prices. If you don't know PCs but are interested in the best possible video game experience, ask away. We'll be happy to help.

05-13-2009, 02:48 AM	#2
Pinoy I'm here for the lulz Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,635	I'll add to Kam's post: Case: cases are pretty much a personal thing design wise, when you're paying big bucks you're paying for niceties inside like removeable motheroboard trays, tool-less assembly, windows, etc. Look for a case that has the potential for good airflow and is big enough for you to work in. Keep in mind most PC enthusiasts on a budget will re-use their cases so get something you can stand to look at for quite a while if this is you. PSU: Kamspy says high rated PSU's are overkill... well yes and no. If you are planning to (or might in the future) go to a dual vid card solution you'll need that extra power (no don't run out and buy a 1KW PSU ) If you know you're not going to go with dual cards then yes high rated PSU's are not only overkill but become increasingly inefficient the larger the disparity between maximum output and actual power draw is. A good rule of thumb is to give yourself 25-35% headroom for your power needs. Video Cards: I like Nvidia cards personally (though I'll get whatever works best) One thing to keep in mind if you like/want to playback h.264 encoded video on your pc is that using the CoreAVC codec combined with a proper Nvidia GPU you can use Nvidia CUDA to assist in the decoding. I use this personally and it my cpu barely registers any use while playing back such video (just thought I'd throw that out there) Things to keep in mind when deciding what card to get: What resolution are you aiming at playing at? What kind of (how demanding) are the games you plan on playing? Will it fit in my freaking case!?! Do I have enough power for this card? You can find plenty of reviews on cards and what kind of relative performance they get in many popular games by a simple google search. I'll give a quick run down of some good cards in low to top categories (as of right now, pricing and (relative) performance can change quickly with the introduction of new cards to the market. Low end (under $100 lowest to best) These cards will all run most games pretty well at 1680x1050 resolutions at decent graphics settings. The 4830 will run most games at 1920x1200 at lower settings Ati 4670 Nvidia 9600gt Ati 4830 Mid-range (under $200, lowest to best) These cards will run almost anything at 1920x1200 well, with a few games requiring slightly lowered settings) Nvidia GTS 250 Ati 4850 Ati4870 Nvidia GTX 260 Over $200 (damn you're rich son!) These cards are high powered, should be able to run anything at 2560x1600 resolutions with very few titles requiring you to scale back on the settings. When you're looking at spending this much on a card you should consider if going SLI/Crossfire would be of benefit to you. I'd like to help out with that but I have never personally owned a dual vid card solution so... Ati 4850x2. This is a monster, crossfire on a single card for around $250! Nvidia GTX 295, essentially SLI on a single card solution that rings up at $500. If you're even considering this monster card you need to send me some of the excess cash you have pronto. Between the 4850x2 and the GTX 295 would be pairs of ati 4870's and Geforce GTX 260's (which would be about $350'ish) If your motherboard is SLI/Crossfire capable and you want that kind of power but feel like saving $150'ish dollars then those would be viable options. HDD's: No you don't need a raptor drive.. If you need the speed on a budget and your motherboard allows it you can just run two plain old 7200rpm drives in a RAID0 array (use both drives as one drive) If you plan on doing this a third larger drive should be used for storing anything important to you on, if either of the drives in teh RAID0 array fails ALL data WILL be lost. __________________ SteamID: Pin0y_b0y Speed up your PS3 Network Connection

05-13-2009, 09:06 AM	#6
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,417	Nice kam, now do one for UK people in real money (I've a feeling your $200 GPUs will be £200 over here tho ) I'm seriously considering this as a little pet project, I did build my own little system just before I started at uni. __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

05-13-2009, 10:52 AM	#7
Mase Way of the Samurai Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tempe,Az Posts: 2,567	sweet thread, perhaps I will build my own, I mean all I want to do is DL porn and play Left4Dead with you guys on Steam... I mean what more can a guy ask for???? Soo 500-600 huh, what sites are usually the best price wise? I know of newegg and ummmmm I go to Frys electronics often, they seem to have some decent deals... Where else, oh and get ready for a lot more questions from me __________________ PlayStation 3 : legnd Killer Xbox 360: Legnd K1ller Steam ID: Legnd_Killer Currently playing Uncharted 2(PS3) Borderlands (360) NBA2k10 (360) COD4/WaW (360)

05-13-2009, 11:37 AM	#11
Mase Way of the Samurai Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tempe,Az Posts: 2,567	ok im on Newegg now what do I choose first? mobo, processor? I am seeing a lot of asus boards and remmeber hearing good things on them, I prefer intel even though I dont know why, but whats a good combo for my uses.. I dont do anything taxing although with a new system I may start gaming more and various other things.. __________________ PlayStation 3 : legnd Killer Xbox 360: Legnd K1ller Steam ID: Legnd_Killer Currently playing Uncharted 2(PS3) Borderlands (360) NBA2k10 (360) COD4/WaW (360)

05-13-2009, 02:56 AM	#3
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	I have a kilo PS. Yeah. The $130-ish cards will run your: Call of Duty Fallout 3 Mass Effect Dead Space Left 4 Dead type stuff waaaaay better than a console. >60fps on every game is really something you'll get attached to. The difference will really make you boot the old boxes up less once you're use to it.

05-13-2009, 02:58 AM	#4
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	Oh yeah. Get a big sexy 24" monitor and a damn comfy computer throne. Sitting ~12" away from a 24" screen fills up much more of the field of vision that sitting ~9' away from a 50".....so you won't be really gaming on a smaller screen in terms of perception.

05-13-2009, 03:27 AM	#5
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	Another point: Since Microsoft is giving out the release candidate of Windows 7 right now, you don't even have to pay for an operating system up front. Hell, I'm still running a longhorn beta on all my computers.

05-13-2009, 11:07 AM	#9
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	newegg is pretty much the best here in the U.S. You might save a dollar or two somewhere else, but the custom serivce at Newegg makes it worth it. It's still all waaay under retail. Think of them as the Amazon for computer parts. MikeUKRox: UK: EBuyer.com Aria.co.uk NovaTech.co.uk Scan.co.uk Misco.co.uk Microdirect.co.uk these are your stores. I don't know if they carry fish and chips as well as computer parts, but I know they have the best UK pricing on computer parts.

05-13-2009, 11:41 AM	#12
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,058	Gigabyte and ASUS are both top notch makers. MSI does a good job too. Just make sure the socket matches the CPU you're getting, and the onboard graphics match the brand of your GPU. Newegg has some good 'cpu+mobo' combo deals.

05-13-2009, 01:08 PM	#14
eck979 Tango Sucka!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: PA Age: 30 Posts: 3,713	I always bought a lot of hardware from here: http://www.pricewatch.com/ Haven't bought anything for a while but prices were always VERY competitive.. read best. Enjoy.