Hardware: The PC Build Thread

Mase · 05-13-2009, 01:51 PM

Ok I am on newegg and have put together some stuff but im sure I am missing something. How can I show you guys what I have in my cart so you can critique what I have chosen?

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mase

Ok I am on newegg and have put together some stuff but im sure I am missing something. How can I show you guys what I have in my cart so you can critique what I have chosen?

Heheh, I was shopping for you

I've tweaked the prior listing I had here (damn you Railven) I took out the case/psu combo and added in a beefier PSU and a (IMO) decent case. Price has gone up slightly, but is obviously worth it.

The public list is here: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Pu...umber=10093425

Price is now at $555.89 before tax/shipping. As of right now there is still a $15 instant rebate for the CPU/Video card bundle, as well as another $20 in MIR. That brings the end total up to $520.89 before tax/shipping.
Note that the build listed does not contain an optical drive, OS, or an aftermarket HSF. (Dunno if you have an OS disk or an extra optical drive sitting around, aftermarket HSF isn't necessary unless you plan to overclock)

All in all I'd say this is a pretty damn good machine for the price, and has an upgrade path if you want more power in a few years (can be upgraded to an Intel Quad Core and has enough power to handle higher rated video cards)

I'm sure I forgot something else, I'm a little scatterbrained

awol · 05-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mase

I asked a forum admin who forwarded my request to the tech people who own/run the board..

Neat. Didn't know you could do that...

railven · 05-13-2009, 06:42 PM

OMFG, I just typed this uber long post with some good info and accidentally closed the tab! Posting now, will edit...WTF I fail!

Quick Summary of my Post:

Motherboard Form Factor:
Important to match your form factor to your needs and case. Three standards:
ATX - Comes in three flavors, standard, Extended, and Micro. It works in a tier system, Extended ATX cases will fit all ATX factors and below [examples of cases are Super Towers and Server Towers], ATX cases will fit all ATX and Mini [exmaples of cases are standard size desktops and towers (mid tower included, don't confuse mid tower with mini tower.) Mini ATX cases only fit a Mini ATX board.
BTX - A new standard being pushed by Intel, it hasn't gained the support from the industry, so chances are you might not run into it.
ITX - the new standard slowly replacing the Mini ATX. ITX boards from what I've read are compatible with Mini ATX cases, but sometimes don't fit right with an ATX case. ITX are specific style of boards often used for small factor builds, so most often an ATX case would be out.

IMPORTANT: When you pick a Micro ATX board check the dimensions of the GPU you bought, especially if it has a shroud. I've accidentally ordered an mATX over an ATX and then had the shroud on the GPU cover all 4 SATA ports. This is very important as nowadays shrouds are becoming normal on even mid-range cards.

Air Flow - Try to always buy the bigger fans. Avoid the 80mm or smaller cases. Aim for the 120mm. Bigger fans push more air at lower RPMs, lower RPMs mean less power, and less power/RPMs means much quieter and longer life span. You'll see a huge difference in decibels if you check the fans ratings. As for flow the following setup as it has been debated countless times as the better build:
Front - Intake (try to have at least one, and sit it over your HDD bays, this is especially important if you live in warmer climates. Heat will destroy your HDDs faster and will create bad sectors sooner.)
Door - Intake (most often these line up right over your GPU. If so, perfect, if now, create a vortex to your GPU if you have another PCI card [a gap between the GPU and the second PCI card] so that the air being inhaled will get sucked into the GPU's fan and all the hot air from the GPU will get throttled outwards.)
Ceiling - Exhaust (ceiling fans are optional but when you have one, let it draw out the heat that will radiant from your PSU. If you plan on watching a lot of movies it also helps to keep your optical drives cooler, and dust free.)
Rear - Exhaust (always have at least 1 exhaust. it is almost mandatory. Try to line it up as best as you can over your CPU. If your PSU has an internal exhaust it will exhaust right over your CPU. This could cause trouble, but if you have an exhaust fan right there, perfect.)

Try to make your rear exhaust fan your biggest fan most efficient CFM bad boy, it will do most of the work to maintain proper air flow.

PSU - This is very important. Check the rails. Try to stay away from mutli-Rail PSU. I know they are becoming the trend, but they are designed mostly to offload burden from one rail and can be coupled to meet exact power ratings (in other words, for expert use and sometimes not worth the hassle.)
Here is an example of a 6Rail PSU:

If you can see in the image, each 12V rail has different Amps as each one is designed for different purposes. You'll see the PCIE rails have higher Amps than the CPU. This is important as the PCIE will most likely feed your GPU and a good GPU will draw almost 1.5 to 2 times more power than the CPU. If you connect these wrongs your GPU might starve causing issues. Avoid this headache unless you need specific power ratings and stick to a single or dual rail system.

And always, ALWAYS, look at the amps on the 12V. The 12V rail will feed just about everything: CPU, GPU, HDDs, Opticals, FANs, and etc. Don't get tricked by the wattage rating. Here are two examples:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817165023

430W PSU, but looking at the ratings we only see 18Amps on the +12V rail, this is good for a low end PC, but not for anything that will see a moderately strong CPU and GPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139008

400W PSU, looking at the ratings we see 30Amps on the +12V. That's almost double that of the 430W at a rating of 30Ws lower.

The wattage is the average of all the rails. Having 20-30Amps on the +5V won't do jack for you, focus that into the +12V.

And when buying multi-Rail PSUs, check each Rail. I've seen a lot of econ PSUs with 15-18Amps per rail. Not bad, but it won't hold its weight when you want to upgrade to stronger stuff.

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

OMFG, I just typed this uber long post with some good info and accidentally closed the tab! Posting now, will edit...WTF I fail!

Ctrl-SHIFT-T (edit:reopens last closed tab in FF)

railven · 05-13-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy

Ctrl-SHIFT-T (edit:reopens last closed tab in FF)

I tried that, but it didn't save my Post info. It brought the post window up empty.

Which just sucked.

Mattie_B · 05-13-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

I tried that, but it didn't save my Post info. It brought the post window up empty.

Which just sucked.

My advice when writing long posts is to type it out in Word then copy/paste it into the forum window. I've done the same exact thing a few times and it does suck.

The write up looks pretty good so far. I'm debating about doing an i7 build this summer or just upgrading my board and cpu. I'm suprised you didn't mention eVga in your motherboard selection. There step up program and lifetime warranty's kick ass.

If anyone is concerned with actually building the computer, I did write up a how to guide on another forum. Its a little dated component wise but the info is still the same for the newer goodies out there.

How to build a custom PC guide link

railven · 05-13-2009, 07:15 PM

One more thing, if you attempt this build yourself always, ALWAYS, demagnetize yourself. This is uber important, especially if you're work area is on a carpet or your wearing a sweater.

A static charge can easily fry a component. I've fried two sticks of RAM accidentally and I've had friends ruin brand new GPUs. You can always return/RMA stuff, but its just a hassle.

They sell wrist straps for this, but I always touch something grounded (like the computer case) to discharge any current.

...

You can even get naked if that helps and work in a clean room, haha.

Oh, don't use any magnetized tools, for the same reason. I remember fixing a friend's PC and the only screw driver he had was a magnet one, took a while to explain why eh should never touched his PC with it. I had to touch his CRT screen to show him what could happen.

Ummm...avoid spills. I'm a pro, I drink my coffee while I work on PCs. But I wouldn't recommend it. Especially when you are fresh to it.

Always have your motherboard manual on hand. The Front I/O Panel is a pain in the ass. I got big thumbs so getting those jumpers on sometimes takes the longest. I recommend you get those jumpers set before you start putting anything heavy into the case. I say this because I've had to twist the case around to angle it for a better view and better reach for my hand to get into the corner (not sure why most Motherboards have those damn things on the corner, usually where the HDD bay is too) and having that thing full of drives and stuff makes it heavier and harder to maneuver.

...All I can think about for now. Have fun, its a great skill to learn, and once you get the upgrade bug you'll know how to do it. Save some money from those tech shops that over charge.

railven · 05-13-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattie_B

My advice when writing long posts is to type it out in Word then copy/paste it into the forum window. I've done the same exact thing a few times and it does suck.

The write up looks pretty good so far. I'm debating about doing an i7 build this summer or just upgrading my board and cpu. I'm suprised you didn't mention eVga in your motherboard selection. There step up program and lifetime warranty's kick ass.

If anyone is concerned with actually building the computer, I did write up a how to guide on another forum. Its a little dated component wise but the info is still the same for the newer goodies out there.

How to build a custom PC guide link

About EVGA, I recommend them as a product and a company, never had any issues and when a card went bad (misuse, or gremlins) they've had no issues RMAing it.

But, check the card's offers, as I've learned about a year ago (upgrading a friend from a 6800 to a 7800) not all cards qualify for the Lifetime Warranty and Upgrade. I know last generation the top end 8800s didn't qualify.

And about the Word, I live life dangerously haha.

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

I tried that, but it didn't save my Post info. It brought the post window up empty.

Which just sucked.

Heh, good to know.

And leave it to you to expose the weakness in my prior build list: I forgot to double check the PSU in that case... it's not up to snuff. I'll revise my list

Mattie_B · 05-13-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

About EVGA, I recommend them as a product and a company, never had any issues and when a card went bad (misuse, or gremlins) they've had no issues RMAing it.

But, check the card's offers, as I've learned about a year ago (upgrading a friend from a 6800 to a 7800) not all cards qualify for the Lifetime Warranty and Upgrade. I know last generation the top end 8800s didn't qualify.

And about the Word, I live life dangerously haha.

That's exactly why I went with another manufacture when I got my 8800. I rarely actually game on my PC anymore so I have not upgraded that. There should be recommendations for both basic builders and enthusiast overclockers as certain boards overclock to higher bus speeds.

LOL @ Living dangerously

Also we should mention that you really shouldn't buy a factory overclocked GPU. Riva tuner allows users to tweek and overclock the GPU's themselves. I don't understand why people buy overclock editions when they can do it themselves and save $50+.

railven · 05-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattie_B

That's exactly why I went with another manufacture when I got my 8800. I rarely actually game on my PC anymore so I have not upgraded that. There should be recommendations for both basic builders and enthusiast overclockers as certain boards overclock to higher bus speeds.

LOL @ Living dangerously

Also we should mention that you really shouldn't buy a factory overclocked GPU. Riva tuner allows users to tweek and overclock the GPU's themselves. I don't understand why people buy overclock editions when they can do it themselves and save $50+.

Only reason I'd recommend a OEM OC over a Personal OC is warranty. The manufacturer OC is covered by warranty at that rating, but if you OC a plain vanilla and it fries, you're outta luck.

Also, most OC version of cards come with a beefier HSF stock. Joe Public might not know the difference and OC his card on recommendations of a friend only to melt it.

Get this, ATI offers OC software bundled with Catalyst (Overdrive) but they tell you it voids your warranty. Haha. That's like giving me some cash and then telling me not to spend it.

Pinoy · 05-13-2009, 08:04 PM

I updated my earlier post and put a link to the 'wish list' containing a pretty strong setup on a budget. If any of you guys (yes YOU RAILVEN) care to look it over and see what my scatterbrained self missed I'd appreciate it

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

About EVGA, I recommend them as a product and a company, never had any issues and when a card went bad (misuse, or gremlins) they've had no issues RMAing it.

But, check the card's offers, as I've learned about a year ago (upgrading a friend from a 6800 to a 7800) not all cards qualify for the Lifetime Warranty and Upgrade. I know last generation the top end 8800s didn't qualify.

And about the Word, I live life dangerously haha.

I'll second that, EVGA has never done me wrong vid card wise.

railven · 05-13-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy

I updated my earlier post and put a link to the 'wish list' containing a pretty strong setup on a budget. If any of you guys (yes YOU RAILVEN) care to look it over and see what my scatterbrained self missed I'd appreciate it

I'll second that, EVGA has never done me wrong vid card wise.

Hey, where is that link?

Mase · 05-13-2009, 09:36 PM

Wow this was definitely the right place to ask questions, I have more answers than I know what to do with.. I feel kinda lost, I just want to play a few PC games here and there and burn some CDs perhaps DL some adult content and thats about it, oh and surf the web... Hahahaha, Pinoy I think I may just go with your shopping cart, only question I would have left is I prefer XP for now, is there a way to transfer my current liscense to the PC I will be building? I really dont wanna pay for an old OS I already own..

05-13-2009, 01:51 PM	#16
Mase Way of the Samurai Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tempe,Az Posts: 2,567	Ok I am on newegg and have put together some stuff but im sure I am missing something. How can I show you guys what I have in my cart so you can critique what I have chosen? __________________ PlayStation 3 : legnd Killer Xbox 360: Legnd K1ller Steam ID: Legnd_Killer Currently playing Uncharted 2(PS3) Borderlands (360) NBA2k10 (360) COD4/WaW (360)

05-13-2009, 06:42 PM	#19
railven High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,724	OMFG, I just typed this uber long post with some good info and accidentally closed the tab! Posting now, will edit...WTF I fail! Quick Summary of my Post: Motherboard Form Factor: Important to match your form factor to your needs and case. Three standards: ATX - Comes in three flavors, standard, Extended, and Micro. It works in a tier system, Extended ATX cases will fit all ATX factors and below [examples of cases are Super Towers and Server Towers], ATX cases will fit all ATX and Mini [exmaples of cases are standard size desktops and towers (mid tower included, don't confuse mid tower with mini tower.) Mini ATX cases only fit a Mini ATX board. BTX - A new standard being pushed by Intel, it hasn't gained the support from the industry, so chances are you might not run into it. ITX - the new standard slowly replacing the Mini ATX. ITX boards from what I've read are compatible with Mini ATX cases, but sometimes don't fit right with an ATX case. ITX are specific style of boards often used for small factor builds, so most often an ATX case would be out. IMPORTANT: When you pick a Micro ATX board check the dimensions of the GPU you bought, especially if it has a shroud. I've accidentally ordered an mATX over an ATX and then had the shroud on the GPU cover all 4 SATA ports. This is very important as nowadays shrouds are becoming normal on even mid-range cards. Air Flow - Try to always buy the bigger fans. Avoid the 80mm or smaller cases. Aim for the 120mm. Bigger fans push more air at lower RPMs, lower RPMs mean less power, and less power/RPMs means much quieter and longer life span. You'll see a huge difference in decibels if you check the fans ratings. As for flow the following setup as it has been debated countless times as the better build: Front - Intake (try to have at least one, and sit it over your HDD bays, this is especially important if you live in warmer climates. Heat will destroy your HDDs faster and will create bad sectors sooner.) Door - Intake (most often these line up right over your GPU. If so, perfect, if now, create a vortex to your GPU if you have another PCI card [a gap between the GPU and the second PCI card] so that the air being inhaled will get sucked into the GPU's fan and all the hot air from the GPU will get throttled outwards.) Ceiling - Exhaust (ceiling fans are optional but when you have one, let it draw out the heat that will radiant from your PSU. If you plan on watching a lot of movies it also helps to keep your optical drives cooler, and dust free.) Rear - Exhaust (always have at least 1 exhaust. it is almost mandatory. Try to line it up as best as you can over your CPU. If your PSU has an internal exhaust it will exhaust right over your CPU. This could cause trouble, but if you have an exhaust fan right there, perfect.) Try to make your rear exhaust fan your biggest fan most efficient CFM bad boy, it will do most of the work to maintain proper air flow. PSU - This is very important. Check the rails. Try to stay away from mutli-Rail PSU. I know they are becoming the trend, but they are designed mostly to offload burden from one rail and can be coupled to meet exact power ratings (in other words, for expert use and sometimes not worth the hassle.) Here is an example of a 6Rail PSU: If you can see in the image, each 12V rail has different Amps as each one is designed for different purposes. You'll see the PCIE rails have higher Amps than the CPU. This is important as the PCIE will most likely feed your GPU and a good GPU will draw almost 1.5 to 2 times more power than the CPU. If you connect these wrongs your GPU might starve causing issues. Avoid this headache unless you need specific power ratings and stick to a single or dual rail system. And always, ALWAYS, look at the amps on the 12V. The 12V rail will feed just about everything: CPU, GPU, HDDs, Opticals, FANs, and etc. Don't get tricked by the wattage rating. Here are two examples: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817165023 430W PSU, but looking at the ratings we only see 18Amps on the +12V rail, this is good for a low end PC, but not for anything that will see a moderately strong CPU and GPU. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139008 400W PSU, looking at the ratings we see 30Amps on the +12V. That's almost double that of the 430W at a rating of 30Ws lower. The wattage is the average of all the rails. Having 20-30Amps on the +5V won't do jack for you, focus that into the +12V. And when buying multi-Rail PSUs, check each Rail. I've seen a lot of econ PSUs with 15-18Amps per rail. Not bad, but it won't hold its weight when you want to upgrade to stronger stuff. __________________ PERMA BANNED Last edited by railven; 05-13-2009 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Added junk, and fixed typos

05-13-2009, 07:15 PM	#23
railven High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,724	One more thing, if you attempt this build yourself always, ALWAYS, demagnetize yourself. This is uber important, especially if you're work area is on a carpet or your wearing a sweater. A static charge can easily fry a component. I've fried two sticks of RAM accidentally and I've had friends ruin brand new GPUs. You can always return/RMA stuff, but its just a hassle. They sell wrist straps for this, but I always touch something grounded (like the computer case) to discharge any current. ... You can even get naked if that helps and work in a clean room, haha. Oh, don't use any magnetized tools, for the same reason. I remember fixing a friend's PC and the only screw driver he had was a magnet one, took a while to explain why eh should never touched his PC with it. I had to touch his CRT screen to show him what could happen. Ummm...avoid spills. I'm a pro, I drink my coffee while I work on PCs. But I wouldn't recommend it. Especially when you are fresh to it. Always have your motherboard manual on hand. The Front I/O Panel is a pain in the ass. I got big thumbs so getting those jumpers on sometimes takes the longest. I recommend you get those jumpers set before you start putting anything heavy into the case. I say this because I've had to twist the case around to angle it for a better view and better reach for my hand to get into the corner (not sure why most Motherboards have those damn things on the corner, usually where the HDD bay is too) and having that thing full of drives and stuff makes it heavier and harder to maneuver. ...All I can think about for now. Have fun, its a great skill to learn, and once you get the upgrade bug you'll know how to do it. Save some money from those tech shops that over charge. __________________ PERMA BANNED

05-13-2009, 09:36 PM	#30
Mase Way of the Samurai Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tempe,Az Posts: 2,567	Wow this was definitely the right place to ask questions, I have more answers than I know what to do with.. I feel kinda lost, I just want to play a few PC games here and there and burn some CDs perhaps DL some adult content and thats about it, oh and surf the web... Hahahaha, Pinoy I think I may just go with your shopping cart, only question I would have left is I prefer XP for now, is there a way to transfer my current liscense to the PC I will be building? I really dont wanna pay for an old OS I already own.. __________________ PlayStation 3 : legnd Killer Xbox 360: Legnd K1ller Steam ID: Legnd_Killer Currently playing Uncharted 2(PS3) Borderlands (360) NBA2k10 (360) COD4/WaW (360)