Analysts agree Blu ray victory will help PS3 outsell Xbox 360

yourrealdad · 02-25-2008, 12:06 PM

I believe that Sony has stepped it up and has given developers some better kits to work with and more help since the beginning, I haven't heard that much about not having the help anymore. I still hear the developers talking about the complexity of the cell engine but for the most part they seem excited and have good support from Sony now a days.

Can you always tell if an 360 game runs at 1080p from the box? I felt like some games were listed at 1080p but didn't actually run at that?

I personally feel that 360 have more 1080p games than ps3 and I believe Sony touted 1080p as the only way to go, so shouldn't a majority of their games be in 1080p?

gameguru1360 · 02-25-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

And lets not forget that sony rushed the PS3 out with sloppily written dev kits and tools. And sony has not nearly been as helpful with 3rd parties as M$...

most notably, the ps3 was rushed without a working force feedback controller. And why is it taking Sony such a long time to come out with a dual force feedback controller??

the ps3 was rushed out simply because it boasted having the blu-ray drive in it.

Cygnus · 02-25-2008, 12:31 PM

The reason why PS3 does not come with DS3 is sony did not want to spend the $$ to license the tech. Apparently sony struck a deal with the company that owns the force feedback tech (Immersion?) and DS3 controllers will be available for purchase later this year. Previously sony tried to stupidly diss dual shock as "last gen technology"

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameguru1360

most notably, the ps3 was rushed without a working force feedback controller. And why is it taking Sony such a long time to come out with a dual force feedback controller??

the ps3 was rushed out simply because it boasted having the blu-ray drive in it.

gameguru1360 · 02-25-2008, 12:42 PM

well now sony is feeling the hurt of leaving out Dual Shock from its ps3 controller! How can you not have force feedback??

awol · 02-25-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eiger

The moment that Microsoft decides to implement BD in their platform they immediately have high royalties and licensing fees that they would pay out the ass for.

They pay royalties for DVD now. What's the difference? Is the difference in cost that drastic??

Quote:

Originally Posted by eiger

The only way I see it possible is if the demand was high enough, manufacturing costs were low, and there was a potential profit and BD becomes more of a standard.

BD is going to be a new standard imo. Very soon I think we will start to see more and more computers with BD drives in them. Apple will probably lead the charge (as usual) followed by the PC makers in the BDA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eiger

Now I know your going to say, "yah well what about disc capacity". By the time the next gen console becomes available, we'll see HDD drives boasting MUCH higher capacity, advancements in hardware such as smarter GPU processing, smarter caching which will reduce the need for extra storage on physical media.

Consoles have gone from sub-megabyte (megabit even) cartridges to now BD. Every single console generation has seen an advancement in storage media and capacity with the exception of the Xbox 360. And we are starting to see more games released on multiple DVD-9's for the 360. Did MS learn that it would have been ideal to have included an HDD in each iteration of the 360. Probably. But even as you say, with advancements in hardware, you can not refute the need and utilization for more storage with each successive console generation. This is why I'm saying they can't stay on DVD past this generation. And as has been pointed out many times prior, going 100% digital download is going to make a lot of people really upset. Not everyone has the same game, and if I want to take my copy of "Kill-em-all Fun-Town" to my buddies house, I can't if I don't own a physical copy.

Cygnus · 02-25-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

They pay royalties for DVD now. What's the difference? Is the difference in cost that drastic??

I don't know precisely but I imagine the license fee for new tech has to be much higher than tech as old as DVD...

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

BD is going to be a new standard imo. Very soon I think we will start to see more and more computers with BD drives in them. Apple will probably lead the charge (as usual) followed by the PC makers in the BDA.

Only time will tell... In terms of PC software, DVD still has tons of space. I can't think of a single app, OS, suite, game, etc that requires more than one DVD to install, many apps still use CDs... Thus I don't see a mass adoption of BR for PCs, unless their price drops quite a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

And we are starting to see more games released on multiple DVD-9's for the 360.

Of the hundreds of 360 games, I think only 2 or 3 use more than 1 DVD... But I do think that DVD will prob definitely reached its limits for the next-gen consoles, but DVD still has room for PC gaming since games are installed on HD. But I guess it depends on what developers prefer: whats more important in terms of RAM, raw processing power, graphical processing power, storage capacity, etc.

Noct · 02-25-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Only time will tell... In terms of PC software, DVD still has tons of space. I can't think of a single app, OS, suite, game, etc that requires more than one DVD to install, many apps still use CDs... Thus I don't see a mass adoption of BR for PCs, unless their price drops quite a bit.

I'm not arguing the BD issue with you, I don't think we'll see software on it for a while if ever, but there are most certainly software packages out there that release on multiple DVDs. The Adobe Creative suite is like 5 or 6 disks. (Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator,etc..)

As far as games go, I know I've seen PC games on multiple DVDs floating around the newsgroups, but I couldn't say offhand what they are.

As far as the 360 goes, I have played a LOT of games and most of the dual disk releases are like bonus features and stuff; I have only seen one single title ever that had game content on multiple disks; Lost Odyssey, which just came out.

I totally agree with you , DVDs are still a perfectly viable medium for transferring/storing software. By the time the PC industry decides on a new format or the next gen of consoles comes out, BD could be long gone or just a niche market. It is way to early in the game to just assume BD is the next DVD.

bboncorr · 02-25-2008, 01:49 PM

that's what people would think if they simply took sonys word for it or didn't do enough research. i still see people claiming the ps3 has HDMI 1.3 and try to fight over that when i tell them otherwise. how can it have HDMI 1.3 when the specs got changed long after the ps3 launch and also sony's main rep for the ps3 stated straight out that the ps3 does not carry HDMI 1.3.

sony said alot of things but they are like some B.S. reporter who claims everything to get himself noticed and when his statments end up being false he just gives a little retraction that nobdoy will read. sony touted every game will be 1080p right from the launch, all games will be required to have Dolby Digital, and HDMI 1.3 would be part of the system. all those things turned out to be lies.

also i'm not talking about the dev kits. sony has definetly stepped up their dev kits but they definetly have not stepped up their support, unless something happened within the last month or so. I'm still reading lines here and there about the support not being around but there isn't much talk on it because it's turned into a expectation when dealing with a sony console. sony gave devs the same hard time with the ps and ps2.

although sony has given good support to their exclusive devs and those are the devs who seem to be giving the most interviews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourrealdad

I believe that Sony has stepped it up and has given developers some better kits to work with and more help since the beginning, I haven't heard that much about not having the help anymore. I still hear the developers talking about the complexity of the cell engine but for the most part they seem excited and have good support from Sony now a days.

Can you always tell if an 360 game runs at 1080p from the box? I felt like some games were listed at 1080p but didn't actually run at that?

I personally feel that 360 have more 1080p games than ps3 and I believe Sony touted 1080p as the only way to go, so shouldn't a majority of their games be in 1080p?

awol · 02-25-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

I don't know precisely but I imagine the license fee for new tech has to be much higher than tech as old as DVD...

It'd definitely be interesting to see if it's that much more. Wonder how we could find this out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Only time will tell... In terms of PC software, DVD still has tons of space. I can't think of a single app, OS, suite, game, etc that requires more than one DVD to install, many apps still use CDs... Thus I don't see a mass adoption of BR for PCs, unless their price drops quite a bit.

I think this is going to be part of what helps bring the prices down. And BD was developed first as a storage medium. Granted, most software can be contained on a DVD or CD, but eventually we will get to a point with GAMES that it will be ideal. Maybe not on PC's since games are typically installed and not run completely from the disc anyway.

bboncorr · 02-25-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameguru1360

most notably, the ps3 was rushed without a working force feedback controller. And why is it taking Sony such a long time to come out with a dual force feedback controller??

the ps3 was rushed out simply because it boasted having the blu-ray drive in it.

well the console being rushed had nothing to do with not having forced feedback. sony was held up in litigation over the ps2 rumble specs. sony and MS got sued over useing the technology without having a contract to pay royalties. MS settled the suit out of court and that's why their system was able to release with the rumble feature. sony has a policy of not settling until the last second so when the ps3 was released there was no settlment in place. sony needed a reason for not having rumble so their reps were b.s.ing the media by stating rumble would not work with a ps3 controller because it would mess with the motion sensing. well a modder built a ps3 controller with a rumble within weeks after a sony rep made the statment. that pretty much shot down the idea of it not being possiable. the modder pretty much stated it was easy so sony with all their resources could have done it easily.

sony finally settled maybe last year if my memory is correct. then not long after there started to be rumors which stated sony had that company making a ps3 rumble controller. later the rumors turned true and sony's whole stance on the rumble not being possiable was swept under the rug.

that's a huge issue i have with sony. they seem to lie to its own fanbase more then any other company i have ever read about. then when the lies are exposed suddenly it's like the lie never happened.

ssjLancer · 02-25-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboncorr

that was just a small taste of 1080p native games. I only listed that just to show you the 360 is more then capable of 1080p 60fps and has been for over a year now. man are you being a total homer or are you seriously in the dark on this issue? honestly the XBOX360 has way more then a handful of Native 1080p games, much much more.

again you are showing your ignorant side. sony owned pattents to HDMI builds. this helped Sony cut costs since they were developing it from within. MS did not have that luxery and would have only highered the price of the systems. also remember when the xbox360 was released 1080p and HDMI 1.3 were not finalized as industry specs. nobody knew for sure if 1080p was going to be a final rez so why bother with HDMI when you know it would have driven the console price up and at that time nobody owned 1080p tvs. full 1080p tvs were not a common thing. at that time the majority of HDTV's were 1080i then upscaled to 1080p. then there was HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.3 wasn't even finalized when the ps3 was released so MS had no way of knowing it would be backwards compatable. when the 360 was released HDMI 1.3 was not backwards compatable but as time went on the specs changed.

so lets say MS released a HDMI 360 only to find 4 years later every TV is being built with HDMI 1.3 and it's not backwards compatable. what kind of sticky situation would MS be in at that point. Sony had the advantage of building the specs eventhough the PS3 is not really HDMI 1.3 with full features.

like someone else said GOOGLE SEARCH is your friend. don't take info from sony fanboy sites and run around forums like these otherwise you're going to get called out on the B.S..

tell me something do you own a 360 or ever play any of the games? why not look on the back of all those games and see how many native 1080p games there are. that articles are from 2006-early 2007 and native 1080p has been a part of the 360 since then. just walk into a gamestop or ebgames and look at the back of all those boxes. also just for the record unless you're playing on a 60" tv 1080p really doesn't add anything to the movie or game especially if you're sitting 10' or more away from the tv. anything else is a myth created by these fanboy sites.

I know Virtua Tennis was 1080p, as well as Street Home Court since you told me. Those 2 games are also 1080p on the PS3.
If you cant name any other games that are natively 1080p then my point still stands, the 360 just upscales games.
HDMI 1.3 is for the deep color specs which rarely(if at all) gets use, not 1080p. The HDMI inputs in the Elite 360 arent even 1.3, its 1.2, so again MS could have easily included HDMI into the 360 if there was a need for it. They didnt care at all whether it was 1.3 or 1.3a/b etc.

Quote:

why not look on the back of all those games and see how many native 1080p games there are. that articles are from 2006-early 2007 and native 1080p has been a part of the 360 since then. just walk into a gamestop or ebgames and look at the back of all those boxes.

Upscaled 1080p.

bboncorr · 02-25-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssjLancer

I know Virtua Tennis was 1080p, as well as Street Home Court since you told me. Those 2 games are also 1080p on the PS3.
If you cant name any other games that are natively 1080p then my point still stands, the 360 just upscales games.
HDMI 1.3 is for the deep color specs which rarely(if at all) gets use, not 1080p. The HDMI inputs in the Elite 360 arent even 1.3, so again MS could have easily included HDMI into the 360 if there was a need for it.

Upscaled 1080p.

WOW i'm done with this kid. it's clear you are being a complete jackoff. how can you come in here saying your point is accurate when i already proved it wrong,

"But the 360 does not have any natively 1080p games."

that's already been proven to be wrong so how does your point, "still stand"?

look if you are going to come here and spew nonsense and not have the ability to do a little research on your own then why bother coming here. there is no reason you can't find native 1080p 360 games. but since you are asking me to hold your hand then you can atleast do like your mommy and call me DADDY when i'm done.

All Pro Football 2K8
Armored Core 4
Battlefield 2 (Platinum Hits)
The Bigs
Bioshock
Bullet Witch
Call of Duty 3
Call of Juarez
Command & Conquer 3
Dead or Alive 4 (Platinum Hits)
Dance Dance Revolution Universe
Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer
Fight Night Round 3
Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Harry Potter
new! Halo 3
Hour of Victory
Icon
Meet The Robinsons
Monster Madness Battle for Suburbia
NCAA 08 Football
NCAA 07 March Madness
Overlord
Pirates of the Carribean
Ratatouilio
Rayman Raving Rabbit
Saints Row
Shadowrun
Spiderman 3
Superman Returns
Surf’s Up
Tetris Evolution
Two Worlds
UEFA Championship Soccer
Vampire Rain

Now that's just off the top of my head. now what are you going to say, well that's 30+ games but where are the rest? give me a break go home and tell mommy i will be by next week and she better have my money.

now lets look at the ps3 1080p titles since their supposed to be all 1080p and you seem to be attacking MS over not having 1080p games when that has already been proven wrong, atleast a reasonable person would realize they are wrong by this point. even sony supporters have admitted you are wrong.

All Pro Football 2K7
[ps] Blast Factor
[ps] Calling All Cars
College Hoops 2K7
The Darkness
Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer
[ps] flOw
Full Auto 2 Battlines
Harry Potter
[ps] High Stakes on the Vegas Strip: Poker Edition
[ps] LocoRoco Cocoreccho!
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
[ps] Mesmerize™: Distort (Playstation Eye)
MLB The Show
NBA ‘07
NBA 2K7
Ninja Gaiden
Pirates of the Carribean
[ps] PixelJunk™ Monsters
[ps] PixelJunk™ Racers
[ps] Piyotama
Street Home Court
[ps] Super Stardust HD
Transformers The Movie
[ps] Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection
Virtua Tennis 3

WOW, now that's a list to brag about isn't it.

as for HDMI 1.3 what is that about. i never once connected HDMI 1.3 to 1080p. you made mention about why the 360 wasn't made with HDMI not me. i only explained what a chance that would be if MS put a HDMI output on it and a few years later those HDMI connections would not work with previous gen HDMI. that's a very reasonable reason for not making the 360 with a HDMI from the begining. so once again your whole thought process is very scewed up. either that or you didn't take the time to read and process what i was saying. how you could miss my whole point on why HDMI was not part of the original 360 is beyond me.

this isn't a personal attack on you, it's more like an attack on views that have been proven wrong for quite a long time now.

I'm done here because if you can't simply admitt you're wrong and you need to take more time to learn this shat before making comments then there is no reason for me to comment on your posts. hell even a bellow average gamer who keeps up with the news every 6 months knows what you are saying isn't anywhere close to being true.

have a nice day.

edit:
judging from your edit it just shows you responded without reading or atleast it took a while for what i said to go through your thought process. fact still remains that you are still not getting it and don't seem to have the capacity to talk this with me. stick around these forums and see what you pickup over time. maybe 6 months from now you will realize you're only just learning this stuff. just like i did many years ago when i was talking more trash about the 360 then anyone on here now but I atleast had the ability to take time and learn this stuff before commenting on stuff that has already been proven one way or another.

ssjLancer · 02-25-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboncorr

All Pro Football 2K8
Armored Core 4
Battlefield 2 (Platinum Hits)
The Bigs
Bioshock
Bullet Witch
Call of Duty 3
Call of Juarez
Command & Conquer 3
Dead or Alive 4 (Platinum Hits)
Dance Dance Revolution Universe
Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer
Fight Night Round 3
Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Harry Potter
new! Halo 3
Hour of Victory
Icon
Meet The Robinsons
Monster Madness Battle for Suburbia
NCAA 08 Football
NCAA 07 March Madness
Overlord
Pirates of the Carribean
Ratatouilio
Rayman Raving Rabbit
Saints Row
Shadowrun
Spiderman 3
Superman Returns
Surf’s Up
Tetris Evolution
Two Worlds
UEFA Championship Soccer
Vampire Rain

Now that's just off the top of my head.

Off the top of your head? you just managed to put everything in alphabetical order too?
Or maybe you just got that list from here lol..
http://www.makeyougohmm.com/xbox360-1080p-games/
And from the same source..

Quote:

Native 1080p games available for the Xbox 360 include the following 3 titles:

[native 1080p] Boogie Bunnies [Xbox Live Arcade]
[native 1080p] Street Home Court
[native 1080p] Virtual Tennis 3

Box advertised 1080p games available for the Xbox 360 include the following 35 total titles. Purists will view native 1080p as the best possible resolution, not 720p titles upscaled to 1080p. The titles below show 1080p on the back of the game boxes but have not been confirmed by third party sources as being native 1080p.

You really are a goofball.

Again, the new 360's with HDMI use an older spec than the PS3. You really are just talking out of your ass about MS being worried about HDMI incompatibility since the 360 that came after the PS3 even uses an older version.

awol · 02-25-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboncorr

look if you are going to come here and spew nonsense and not have the ability to do a little research on your own then why bother coming here. there is no reason you can't find native 1080p 360 games. but since you are asking me to hold your hand then you can atleast do like your mommy and call me DADDY when i'm done.

If I'm understanding your argument correctly, you go on and list a bunch of games that are supposed to be 1080p native, but I'm confused. And please understand, I'm just asking for clarification, not flaming you! But wasn't there a backlash regarding Halo3 because it was not running even at a full 720p? I don't have any idea about the rest of them. That just sticks out in my mind as I remember reading a lot about Halo 3.

ssjLancer · 02-25-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

If I'm understanding your argument correctly, you go on and list a bunch of games that are supposed to be 1080p native, but I'm confused. And please understand, I'm just asking for clarification, not flaming you! But wasn't there a backlash regarding Halo3 because it was not running even at a full 720p? I don't have any idea about the rest of them. That just sticks out in my mind as I remember reading a lot about Halo 3.

Yes, the resolution was 1152x640 for Halo 3. There was also quite a few games on the 360 like PGR3 that were running in a 1024x600 resolution.

02-25-2008, 12:06 PM	#61
yourrealdad High like giraffe ass Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 231	I believe that Sony has stepped it up and has given developers some better kits to work with and more help since the beginning, I haven't heard that much about not having the help anymore. I still hear the developers talking about the complexity of the cell engine but for the most part they seem excited and have good support from Sony now a days. Can you always tell if an 360 game runs at 1080p from the box? I felt like some games were listed at 1080p but didn't actually run at that? I personally feel that 360 have more 1080p games than ps3 and I believe Sony touted 1080p as the only way to go, so shouldn't a majority of their games be in 1080p? __________________ Living room: -Samsung HL-S5687W -PS3 60G -PSN Tag: yourrealdad -XBOX 360 -XBL Tag: KILLER JACOBEES -Oppo DV971H -Sony STR-DG500 -Sony SSMF650H speakers -House is too small for surround sound, heck its too small for the TV -Custom AMD X2 1.5TB HDD PC -Harmony 880 Remote Bedroom: -Viewsonic n2750w hooked up to my custom Core 2 Duo E6400 PC

02-25-2008, 12:42 PM	#64
gameguru1360 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 625	well now sony is feeling the hurt of leaving out Dual Shock from its ps3 controller! How can you not have force feedback?? __________________ "What I really need is a woman who loves me for my money but doesn't understand math."

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