another ps3 v.s. 360 article posted by a game developer.

bboncorr · 11-29-2006, 09:42 PM

thats right another atricle on the ps3 v.s. 360 issue. this one is posted by a game developer who is working with both systems. there are some very interesting facts in this article so dont skip it.

"As long as consoles have existed, discussions, debates, arguments, fights, and all out WARS have taken place over who makes the best video game units. Growing up, I was always a Nintendo fan boy; I didn't want to hear anything about Sega Genesis... In my mind, Nintendo had Mario, Zelda, and other great first-party titles. Sega had Sonic, and red blood.

Things are slightly more complicated these days however. Console makers are taking different approaches to designing their products; some go for hardcore processing power, others focus more on online gaming. We already have a heated debate going on in our forum about which console is better, PS3 or XBOX 360.

I thought it would be a good idea to ask my friend, who is a lead programmer for a large gaming company that produces games for both PS3 and XBOX 360. He has also worked on PS2, XBOX 1, and PC games in the past 6-or-so years. Obviously, considering his position working with both consoles and both Sony and Microsoft, he doesn't want to step on any toes, so wishes to remain anonymous at this time. Here are his thoughts on the subject:

PS3 vs. XBOX 360

Being a video game developer (I develop for both, Playstation 3 and XBOX 360) people ask me almost daily which platform I think is better. These are my personal feelings, in no way does this reflect my employer.

Short answer: XBOX 360.
Long answer: Price, performance, visual quality, game selection and online support. I think the XBOX 360 wins in every category.

Price: This is obvious; the XBOX 360 core is only $299. The PS3 is around $499 for the 20GB version. It comes with a hard drive, but you don’t need a hard drive to enjoy a lot of great games on the 360 so I think it’s fair to compare both core systems.

Performance: On paper, the PS3 is more powerful. In reality, it’s quite inferior to the 360. Without getting into too many details, the three general-purpose CPU’s the xbox360 has are currently FAR easier to take advantage of than the SPU’s on the PS3. I suspect a few years down the road some high budget, first party PS3 exclusive titles will come out that really take advantage of the SPU’s and do things the XBOX 360 can’t, but I don’t think the console is worth buying based on this speculation (for some it will be though, we'll have to wait and see how these games turn out).

Graphics: The XBOX 360 is a clear winner. The GPU is more powerful. It has more powerful fillrate, and far more pixel and vertex processing horsepower. Part of the reason is their choice of memory, and architecture of pixel and vertex procesing. I can’t get into details but the same vertex shader will run much slower on the PS3 than the XBOX 360. The 360 also has a clever new way rendering high definition anti aliased back buffers. To accomplish the same effect on PS3 is prohibitively expensive. For this reason I think many games will have no choice but to run in non-HD resolutions on the PS3 version, use a lower quality anti aliasing technique, or do back buffer upscaling. The end result in all cases is going to be noticeably worse image quality.

Game Selection: The XBOX 360 has a huge head start here. 1 year is an eternity in gaming. Almost all multi-platform developers have made the XBOX 360 their primary platform due to timing of release-to-market, this means the games will look and perform better on the 360. The PS3 versions will be ports of the 360 versions. (The opposite was true for XBOX 1 vs. PS2). The XBOX 360 is also far faster to develop for due to better development tools (massively popular Visual Studio .NET vs. proprietary, buggy PS3 compiler and debugger), better documentation, and easier architecture (3 general purpose CPU’s vs. 8 specialized processors that require DMA). Timing has also caused all next-gen middleware developers to make XBOX 360 their primary platform, and they will ‘add ps3 support’ as needed. This support will probably be inferior to the XBOX 360’s due to manpower and more importantly, demand. It’s this catch-22 now that will continue to drive the 360 forward and hold PS3 back.

The other obvious point here is that right now the Xbox360 already has a very impressive line-up of titles on store shelves; the ps3 just launched, and has virtually nothing of interest. Also, many 360 games are already discounted ($35 for Fight Night 3 on Amazon). PS3 games are all full price since it just launched.

Live: Microsoft’s online support with XBOX1 was phenomenal. They built in-house experience, user base, facilities, $$ commitment from executive level (since it proved successful), and most importantly, feedback from 100,000s of XBOX Live subscribers. Playstation 2’s online support sucked. They are now playing catch-up, trying to emulate Xbox’s model. But they had their hands tied just trying to make the PS3 work, it was incredibly ambitious (blu-ray etc.). I haven’t seen it yet, but I seriously doubt the quality will be anywhere to the level of XBOX 360.

HD Content: The PS3 comes with one built in (blu-ray). The XBOX 360 offers HD-DVD as an add-on for $200. You probably don’t care about HD-DVD right now. But you will soon (The quality between DVD and HD is comparable to VHS vs DVD, if you have the right TV) so I suggest paying attention to the war that’s begun. There are two formats: HD-DVD and BLU-RAY. Basically if you rent a BLU-RAY DVD from Bockbuster, it won’t play in your XBOX 360 HD-DVD, and vice versa with the PS3. The implications of this format war would require another article on its own. But as far as the consoles are concerned, the XBOX 360 wins because the DVD player is a separate unit. Playing movies is very taxing on the DVD reader, and let’s face it. In 3 years when your PS3 DVD drive goes out due to playing lots of movies (PS2 was notoriously bad about this) you will have to go buy another PS3. With the 360, you’ll just chuck your HD-DVD player, and go buy another one at the store. In 3 years standalone units wlil probably only cost about $99-150. Another point for the XBOX 360, is that I don’t know who will win the format-war, so I would rather wait with purchase of a HD player. The PS3 doesn’t give you this option.

PS3 controversy: Shootings, Wallmart fights, $15,000 Ebay sales etc. My advice is ignore it. It will pass soon.

Cygnus · 11-29-2006, 10:12 PM

Got a link? What developer is this? One thing is odd is he is talking about Visual Studio .Net....for gaming?? Thats interesting..

bboncorr · 11-29-2006, 10:26 PM

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

godson · 11-29-2006, 10:41 PM

Heres the problem,and in some way this guy,whom seemingly remained anonymous in that article,contributes to the problem. People dont want to believe this. I understand that by remaining anonymous here he/she is probably trying to protect their job but still this is hard believe for some for as far as we know some MS fanboy could have written it. Im not saying that site isnt on the up and up but still many wont believe it. Were sorta thrust right back into the pre-launch period where there are questions abound but again only time will tell. If the PS3 has to try to make its run as a next gen powerhouse as a port for 360 games and use its exckusives as their stronghold so be it,I doubt that is their plan but then again what is Sony's plan? I would feel that over time devs will be more proficient in working with the PS3,although I dont believe they will ever be able to do anything more than can be done for the 360....but hell thats jusy my opinion and if my opinion really mattered somebody would be paying me for it

Razor05 · 11-29-2006, 11:09 PM

The same conclusion came from this report that was posted previously. Very technical, but good also:

http://dpad.gotfrag.com:80/portal/story/35372/?cpage=1

bboncorr · 11-29-2006, 11:27 PM

i posted this also.

ViperVenom18 · 11-30-2006, 03:11 AM

Yeah the cat's out of the bag on this issue... the PS3 is too complicated for its own good (and for what reason... didn't Sony know their machine would look like a terror for developers?)

The only people who will not know are the average joe's... and there are more of them than people like us.

But I saw screw it, let those people buy the PS3... not my money.

sufs · 11-30-2006, 01:18 PM

I agree with Godson all these articiles seem like they are written by fanboys. I for one stronglly believe in the 360 and had it not been for MGS4 coming to the ps3, I would never even concider it.

mshulman · 11-30-2006, 01:27 PM

I've seen plenty of articles that tend to state the same thing.

I've also paid attention these past years and pretty much concluded on my own that the PS3 wasn't really going to be that far above the 360 (if at all). And the online was always a big question.

I love gaming online and right now, the 360 is king of that. Hopefully Sony will learn from this and realize you can't make a console, copy everything everyone else has done and add a high def player and expect to be the best.

Copying is fine, but you need to imbelish upon what others have done. People always seem to diss MS for copying, but they rarely just copy feature for feature - they always add more. Sony needs to learn this.

junehhan · 11-30-2006, 02:31 PM

This isn't the first article written by a developer on this debate. However, every comparison article written by various programmers and developers out there have basically said the same thing as this guy. If there are some people who won't believe what all the other high profile developers have said on this debate, then I guess they arn't going to believe this either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by godson

Heres the problem,and in some way this guy,whom seemingly remained anonymous in that article,contributes to the problem. People dont want to believe this. I understand that by remaining anonymous here he/she is probably trying to protect their job but still this is hard believe for some for as far as we know some MS fanboy could have written it. Im not saying that site isnt on the up and up but still many wont believe it. Were sorta thrust right back into the pre-launch period where there are questions abound but again only time will tell. If the PS3 has to try to make its run as a next gen powerhouse as a port for 360 games and use its exckusives as their stronghold so be it,I doubt that is their plan but then again what is Sony's plan? I would feel that over time devs will be more proficient in working with the PS3,although I dont believe they will ever be able to do anything more than can be done for the 360....but hell thats jusy my opinion and if my opinion really mattered somebody would be paying me for it

GameFan91 · 11-30-2006, 04:02 PM

Hey here is something that will make you think twice if u ever buy a next gen console... http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2650

mshulman · 11-30-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameFan91

Hey here is something that will make you think twice if u ever buy a next gen console... http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2650

How does that make you think twice? PS3/360 look about the same. Wii is the only one that doesn't look as good.

godson · 11-30-2006, 06:02 PM

Yea this thing will never be settled by articles and reviews...in all reality we probably wont know the true winner until were already talking about the next-next gen consoles. Lets not forget here that the "current gen/PS2/xbox)" consoles are still selling fairly well. Its so early in this gen, Im starting to feel like parents with newborns argueing about whose son is gonna be an NFL star....we've barely seen these guys walk yet....

mshulman · 11-30-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godson

in all reality we probably wont know the true winner until were already talking about the next-next gen consoles.

I disagree. I have the true winner downstairs. Its called Xbox 360. If the PS3 had more to offer besides a few exclusives and Bluray, then I think we might have a battle. But aside from that, it brings nothing new to the table.

The original Xbox vs PS2 at least brought a few new things. Built in Hard Drive, New player in the market and a year later Xbox live. PS3 has none of this except its a bluray player.

tjm5111 · 11-12-2007, 03:34 PM

if you like online gaming then the 360 for sure, i have both and i only use my ps3 for blue ray sence all the games i like come out on both the 360 n ps3

11-29-2006, 09:42 PM	#1
bboncorr High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,418	another ps3 v.s. 360 article posted by a game developer. thats right another atricle on the ps3 v.s. 360 issue. this one is posted by a game developer who is working with both systems. there are some very interesting facts in this article so dont skip it. "As long as consoles have existed, discussions, debates, arguments, fights, and all out WARS have taken place over who makes the best video game units. Growing up, I was always a Nintendo fan boy; I didn't want to hear anything about Sega Genesis... In my mind, Nintendo had Mario, Zelda, and other great first-party titles. Sega had Sonic, and red blood. Things are slightly more complicated these days however. Console makers are taking different approaches to designing their products; some go for hardcore processing power, others focus more on online gaming. We already have a heated debate going on in our forum about which console is better, PS3 or XBOX 360. I thought it would be a good idea to ask my friend, who is a lead programmer for a large gaming company that produces games for both PS3 and XBOX 360. He has also worked on PS2, XBOX 1, and PC games in the past 6-or-so years. Obviously, considering his position working with both consoles and both Sony and Microsoft, he doesn't want to step on any toes, so wishes to remain anonymous at this time. Here are his thoughts on the subject: PS3 vs. XBOX 360 Being a video game developer (I develop for both, Playstation 3 and XBOX 360) people ask me almost daily which platform I think is better. These are my personal feelings, in no way does this reflect my employer. Short answer: XBOX 360. Long answer: Price, performance, visual quality, game selection and online support. I think the XBOX 360 wins in every category. Price: This is obvious; the XBOX 360 core is only $299. The PS3 is around $499 for the 20GB version. It comes with a hard drive, but you don’t need a hard drive to enjoy a lot of great games on the 360 so I think it’s fair to compare both core systems. Performance: On paper, the PS3 is more powerful. In reality, it’s quite inferior to the 360. Without getting into too many details, the three general-purpose CPU’s the xbox360 has are currently FAR easier to take advantage of than the SPU’s on the PS3. I suspect a few years down the road some high budget, first party PS3 exclusive titles will come out that really take advantage of the SPU’s and do things the XBOX 360 can’t, but I don’t think the console is worth buying based on this speculation (for some it will be though, we'll have to wait and see how these games turn out). Graphics: The XBOX 360 is a clear winner. The GPU is more powerful. It has more powerful fillrate, and far more pixel and vertex processing horsepower. Part of the reason is their choice of memory, and architecture of pixel and vertex procesing. I can’t get into details but the same vertex shader will run much slower on the PS3 than the XBOX 360. The 360 also has a clever new way rendering high definition anti aliased back buffers. To accomplish the same effect on PS3 is prohibitively expensive. For this reason I think many games will have no choice but to run in non-HD resolutions on the PS3 version, use a lower quality anti aliasing technique, or do back buffer upscaling. The end result in all cases is going to be noticeably worse image quality. Game Selection: The XBOX 360 has a huge head start here. 1 year is an eternity in gaming. Almost all multi-platform developers have made the XBOX 360 their primary platform due to timing of release-to-market, this means the games will look and perform better on the 360. The PS3 versions will be ports of the 360 versions. (The opposite was true for XBOX 1 vs. PS2). The XBOX 360 is also far faster to develop for due to better development tools (massively popular Visual Studio .NET vs. proprietary, buggy PS3 compiler and debugger), better documentation, and easier architecture (3 general purpose CPU’s vs. 8 specialized processors that require DMA). Timing has also caused all next-gen middleware developers to make XBOX 360 their primary platform, and they will ‘add ps3 support’ as needed. This support will probably be inferior to the XBOX 360’s due to manpower and more importantly, demand. It’s this catch-22 now that will continue to drive the 360 forward and hold PS3 back. The other obvious point here is that right now the Xbox360 already has a very impressive line-up of titles on store shelves; the ps3 just launched, and has virtually nothing of interest. Also, many 360 games are already discounted ($35 for Fight Night 3 on Amazon). PS3 games are all full price since it just launched. Live: Microsoft’s online support with XBOX1 was phenomenal. They built in-house experience, user base, facilities, $$ commitment from executive level (since it proved successful), and most importantly, feedback from 100,000s of XBOX Live subscribers. Playstation 2’s online support sucked. They are now playing catch-up, trying to emulate Xbox’s model. But they had their hands tied just trying to make the PS3 work, it was incredibly ambitious (blu-ray etc.). I haven’t seen it yet, but I seriously doubt the quality will be anywhere to the level of XBOX 360. HD Content: The PS3 comes with one built in (blu-ray). The XBOX 360 offers HD-DVD as an add-on for $200. You probably don’t care about HD-DVD right now. But you will soon (The quality between DVD and HD is comparable to VHS vs DVD, if you have the right TV) so I suggest paying attention to the war that’s begun. There are two formats: HD-DVD and BLU-RAY. Basically if you rent a BLU-RAY DVD from Bockbuster, it won’t play in your XBOX 360 HD-DVD, and vice versa with the PS3. The implications of this format war would require another article on its own. But as far as the consoles are concerned, the XBOX 360 wins because the DVD player is a separate unit. Playing movies is very taxing on the DVD reader, and let’s face it. In 3 years when your PS3 DVD drive goes out due to playing lots of movies (PS2 was notoriously bad about this) you will have to go buy another PS3. With the 360, you’ll just chuck your HD-DVD player, and go buy another one at the store. In 3 years standalone units wlil probably only cost about $99-150. Another point for the XBOX 360, is that I don’t know who will win the format-war, so I would rather wait with purchase of a HD player. The PS3 doesn’t give you this option. PS3 controversy: Shootings, Wallmart fights, $15,000 Ebay sales etc. My advice is ignore it. It will pass soon. __________________ Living Room pioneer kuro plasma PDP-5010FD (9.9) Denon 4308CI (9.5) B&W 683's, HTM61, 685's (9.0) Sony PS3 (9.0) Sony BD-S350 (9.5) HSU VTF-3 MK3 sub (9.0) Harmony 1000 (9.5) XBOX360 + HD DVD (9.2) Nintendo Wii (7.5) Netflix Roku (9.0) Gaming Room 60A3000 (8.7) Halcro ssp200 (10. perfection) Deftech BP7004, C/L/R2002, BP2X (8.7) Sony Remote Commander (7.0) Toshiba HDA35 (7.9) Samsung 1400 (5.0) Bedroom Panasonic TH-42PZ85U (8.7) Tivo HD (9.7)

11-29-2006, 10:12 PM	#2
Cygnus The Bringer of Balance Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,766	Got a link? What developer is this? One thing is odd is he is talking about Visual Studio .Net....for gaming?? Thats interesting.. __________________ Toshiba 57H81 Kenwood VR-616 Comcast DCT6412 III XBox 360 GamerTag Sec0nd2N0n3

11-29-2006, 10:26 PM	#3
bboncorr High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,418	http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm __________________ Living Room pioneer kuro plasma PDP-5010FD (9.9) Denon 4308CI (9.5) B&W 683's, HTM61, 685's (9.0) Sony PS3 (9.0) Sony BD-S350 (9.5) HSU VTF-3 MK3 sub (9.0) Harmony 1000 (9.5) XBOX360 + HD DVD (9.2) Nintendo Wii (7.5) Netflix Roku (9.0) Gaming Room 60A3000 (8.7) Halcro ssp200 (10. perfection) Deftech BP7004, C/L/R2002, BP2X (8.7) Sony Remote Commander (7.0) Toshiba HDA35 (7.9) Samsung 1400 (5.0) Bedroom Panasonic TH-42PZ85U (8.7) Tivo HD (9.7)

11-29-2006, 10:41 PM	#4
godson Mr. Bill Belecheeeeek. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: philadelphia Posts: 2,592	Heres the problem,and in some way this guy,whom seemingly remained anonymous in that article,contributes to the problem. People dont want to believe this. I understand that by remaining anonymous here he/she is probably trying to protect their job but still this is hard believe for some for as far as we know some MS fanboy could have written it. Im not saying that site isnt on the up and up but still many wont believe it. Were sorta thrust right back into the pre-launch period where there are questions abound but again only time will tell. If the PS3 has to try to make its run as a next gen powerhouse as a port for 360 games and use its exckusives as their stronghold so be it,I doubt that is their plan but then again what is Sony's plan? I would feel that over time devs will be more proficient in working with the PS3,although I dont believe they will ever be able to do anything more than can be done for the 360....but hell thats jusy my opinion and if my opinion really mattered somebody would be paying me for it __________________ Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Renee, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

11-29-2006, 11:09 PM	#5
Razor05 HD = 65 beautiful inches Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 3,274	The same conclusion came from this report that was posted previously. Very technical, but good also: http://dpad.gotfrag.com:80/portal/story/35372/?cpage=1 __________________ Panasonic TH-65PZ850U Sony KDL37XBR6 Panasonic TH-37PX50U Cambridge Audio Azur 640R & 740C Paradigm Studio 60's, 20's, CC-590 & Seismic 12 Panasonic DMP-BD35 Toshiba HD-XA2 & A35 Motorola VIP1200 Monster HTFS1000, PB2100 AA 1154a Xbox360 Prem(2) & Halo3 LE + HD-DVD GT: Razor59 Sony PS3 slim GT:Razor_59 Sony PSP

11-29-2006, 11:27 PM	#6
bboncorr High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,418	i posted this also. __________________ Living Room pioneer kuro plasma PDP-5010FD (9.9) Denon 4308CI (9.5) B&W 683's, HTM61, 685's (9.0) Sony PS3 (9.0) Sony BD-S350 (9.5) HSU VTF-3 MK3 sub (9.0) Harmony 1000 (9.5) XBOX360 + HD DVD (9.2) Nintendo Wii (7.5) Netflix Roku (9.0) Gaming Room 60A3000 (8.7) Halcro ssp200 (10. perfection) Deftech BP7004, C/L/R2002, BP2X (8.7) Sony Remote Commander (7.0) Toshiba HDA35 (7.9) Samsung 1400 (5.0) Bedroom Panasonic TH-42PZ85U (8.7) Tivo HD (9.7)

11-30-2006, 03:11 AM	#7
ViperVenom18 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 641	Yeah the cat's out of the bag on this issue... the PS3 is too complicated for its own good (and for what reason... didn't Sony know their machine would look like a terror for developers?) The only people who will not know are the average joe's... and there are more of them than people like us. But I saw screw it, let those people buy the PS3... not my money. __________________ -Sony 34in HDTV - KD--34XS955 -Denon AVR-3300 -Denon DVD-1000 -Definitive Tech. BP 2004tl Bipolar towers w/ built in 10in subs. -Definitive Tech. BP2X Bipolar surrounds -Definitive Tech. C/L/R 2300 center channel with built in 8 inch subwoofer. -DIY 15 inch TC-2000 subwoofer tuned to 20hz with 1200 watt amp rms. -Xbox 360 (Gamertag: C Dimension) Soon to come: Nintendo Wii.

11-30-2006, 01:18 PM	#8
sufs Generation HD Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lebanon Posts: 1,001	I agree with Godson all these articiles seem like they are written by fanboys. I for one stronglly believe in the 360 and had it not been for MGS4 coming to the ps3, I would never even concider it.

11-30-2006, 01:27 PM	#9
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,571	I've seen plenty of articles that tend to state the same thing. I've also paid attention these past years and pretty much concluded on my own that the PS3 wasn't really going to be that far above the 360 (if at all). And the online was always a big question. I love gaming online and right now, the 360 is king of that. Hopefully Sony will learn from this and realize you can't make a console, copy everything everyone else has done and add a high def player and expect to be the best. Copying is fine, but you need to imbelish upon what others have done. People always seem to diss MS for copying, but they rarely just copy feature for feature - they always add more. Sony needs to learn this.

11-30-2006, 04:02 PM	#11
GameFan91 My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 6	Hey here is something that will make you think twice if u ever buy a next gen console... http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2650

11-30-2006, 06:02 PM	#13
godson Mr. Bill Belecheeeeek. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: philadelphia Posts: 2,592	Yea this thing will never be settled by articles and reviews...in all reality we probably wont know the true winner until were already talking about the next-next gen consoles. Lets not forget here that the "current gen/PS2/xbox)" consoles are still selling fairly well. Its so early in this gen, Im starting to feel like parents with newborns argueing about whose son is gonna be an NFL star....we've barely seen these guys walk yet.... __________________ Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Renee, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

11-12-2007, 03:34 PM	#15
tjm5111 My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 9	if you like online gaming then the 360 for sure, i have both and i only use my ps3 for blue ray sence all the games i like come out on both the 360 n ps3