Gun Control - Thoughts?

elwaylite · 12-26-2012, 11:11 AM

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...e=domesticNews

More stupidity. The fact the guy can't possess an unloaded high cap clip to use as an example is, well...

I wonder if he is willing to sell it, I could use another...

elwaylite · 12-26-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Gun-control poll: Most want stricter laws

But most Americans also oppose an assault weapons ban.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...Top+Stories%29

Nexgenrulz · 12-26-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...e=domesticNews

More stupidity. The fact the guy can't possess an unloaded high cap clip to use as an example is, well...

I wonder if he is willing to sell it, I could use another...

Good. I hope they throw the book at him. David Gregory is just another 'Tool' of the left wing media. Who cares about 30 round mags and whether we need them or not. It's The Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

jkkyler · 12-26-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...e=domesticNews

More stupidity. The fact the guy can't possess an unloaded high cap clip to use as an example is, well...

I wonder if he is willing to sell it, I could use another...

If something is illegal to own then it is illegal and in DC where he is located those magazines are illegal to possess . If I wanted to go on tv and inform viewers of the dangers of cocaine I am not permitted to throw a few lines on the table and go to town.

Quote:

NBC contacted MPD inquiring if they could utilize a high capacity magazine for their segment. NBC was informed that possession of a high capacity magazine is not permissible and their request was denied. This matter is currently being investigated."

But ABC News has learned from an official at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives that NBC had reached out to the federal agency on Friday for advice before displaying the weaponry.

According to the ATF official, the agency noted that ATF doesn't enforce D.C. gun laws, but agreed to put the question to a couple of Washington police officers who've worked with the agency in the past.

The D.C. officers advised the ATF spokesman that Gregory could display the magazine, provided it was empty, the source said.

That turned out to be bad advice, as conservative media and gun rights activists were first to note. The ATF official describes this as a "misunderstanding," and says he hopes DC police will not bring charges.

It would seem they at least tried to make sure it was ok but they may have just kept asking until somebody told them it was ok so they could pass the buck.

kharaa · 12-26-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Well my resume is, I'm in the middle of an AR15 build (buying all parts individually and putting it together myself) and also own two .380's, a 9mm, a .38 special and a .40 cal. Im also a member of the NRA.

I'm just starting my 'resume' I just picked up a S&W Governor, .410 shotshell revolver, I'm looking to buy a Smith and Wesson M&P-15 MOE (AR-15).

I'm buying up any magpul p-mags I see, since they're likely to be banned.. probably could sell them for 10 times what they're worth after that.. =/

Quote:

I'm OK with a reduction of mag capacity. I bought several 30 rounders last week just because I think they are gone, but I'm OK with 10 rounders. I'll just couple two together with the Magpul accessory and have 20 on the gun at one time.

I don't disagree with this at all.. but I don't think high capacity mags are the problem, just means you bring more magazines to the fight, and it won't stop the people that shouldn't have them from getting them.. that's whats funny. Lets pretend the AR-15 isn't even the gun that everyone is talking about, most of the world uses a variant of either the FAL or the AK-47, accessories for any of these can be found from non-US manufacterors any day of the week. if someone wants a high capacity magazine for a semi-automatic or assault rifle they will find them. There is *millions* of them in circulation here in the united states.

The other parts to the AWB that people keep going on and on about are a freaking joke. Do some research on the pre-ban and during ban

Quote:

AR15, its laughable. Once again the big deal is mag capacity.

I find it disturbing that a large group of these media folks with very little gun experience (just read the article and its easy to tell) are chiming in. No one is bringing up the fact a couple of these guys obtained the guns illegally, granted the 20 yr old shit was due to his mother's own ignorance, but she got hers. The Fort Hood shooter, the Colorado shooter, the VT shooter and the Conn. shooter all showed problems before any of this happened. I question the state of mental care in this country as much as I question anything else (and note states keep CUTTING that mental healthcare budget).

It is interesting to note that most of the largest mass shootings happened in places where you are unable or not allowed to carry a gun.

Also the average death rate of mass shootings stopped by police, is 14, the average death rate of mass killings stopped by a private citizen is 2.5.

Quote:

Now let's look at the guy who shot the firefighters. Yepp, its that bad old AR15 again. What about this jackass, who only spent 17 years in prison for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer. Why is he even out, why did he not get death? Im 100% against taking away my right to a firearm, because it's the easy way out, when I am a responsible owner.

Columbine High, and This most recent shooting were done by individuals not able to legally purchase a firearm. Neither was this man you are talking about, all obtained a firearm ILLEGALLY.

So I agree with you completely here

Quote:

I'm all for longer waits, I'm all for a reduction in mag capacity (from 30 down to 10, hell even 5 would not bother me), I wouldn't mind seeing a national system that required an ID card to buy any gun, and part of the requirement to get the card and buy your FIRST firearm is taking a 2 day gun course at a local range. Some are gonna bitch about that one, but I know idiots who conceal carry who do not even know how to breakdown their weapon or clear a jam. Thats ridiculous.

I think this is one of the best ideas i've heard so far. A Gunowners card could replace the need for a CCW permit, as obtaining this gunowners liscence would be sufficent for both, and I think mandatory classes for firearm use in order to purchase them is just about the most common sense thing I've heard!

Quote:

I also think it was stupid for an AR15 to be sitting on the shelf of Walmart, that's just asking for trouble. We may even consider only selling certain models at actual gun dealers, and requires courses to own them. The whole background check at a gun show loophole is embarrassing as well. We all know thats wrong.

I don't think it's stupid they're sold at walmart.. I just think that the sporting goods section should be treated like any other firearm dealer. They should be required to have the same safety and training standards that anywhere else does.

Quote:

What I'm not for is the UK/Australian method of just taking them away. I should be able to buy a shotgun or semiautomatic rifle (I know some idiots in the news keep saying automatic...) by going through the proper procedures, but I should not have to justify why i want it to anyone, especially when self defense is not counted as an acceptable reason. Also, the AWB banned collapsible stocks and threaded barrels. Gimme a break, people are not running around with sound suppressors and the stock is one of the most harmless components. The key to the threaded barrel is so you can easily attach a flash suppressor of muzzle brake. These two items dont make you a terrorist.

a silencer actually has a very legitment use, it slows bullet velocity making over penetration less likely, and it also dampens somewhat the sound of the gunshot, making it less likely to deafen you or cause permanent hearing damage.

The collapsible stock is an amusing one, I see no issue with an adjustable stock so that you can make the gun fit your exact physique, and build. In my home I have long hallways and alot of corners to turn, if I had an intruder in my house, shortening the overall length of the gun would be beneficial.

Quote:

And Rambo, you can stay at my place when the zombies attack, Ill let you borrow one of my guns.

^ LOL

John Rambo · 12-26-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

And Rambo, you can stay at my place when the zombies attack, Ill let you borrow one of my guns.

Human beings will be wiped off this planet by climate catastrophes thanks to global climate change long before a zombie apocalypse. The funny coincidence is that most climate change deniers are also pro-gun/NRA nuts, and its because of those people, that we, as humans, can't adjust the ways that we live to prevent a global climate catastrophe. So in reality, the pro-gun nuts themselves are more likely to be the ones who end human life on the planet, not because of their gun politics, but because of their other politics

John Rambo · 12-26-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy

Of course you won't...you'll also be hard pressed to find an incident where such a mentally deranged nutjob decided to try and take out a police station...or shoot up a military base

You mean like the Fort Hood military base shooting on November 5, 2009, where a dude killed 13 people and wounded 29 others? This was on a MILITARY BASE, in TEXAS, of all places!!! This is like a gun show in the gun capital of the world.

You're making this way too easy

Quote:

NOTHING will stop a determined person from doing some damage other than catching them before they do it.

Did the deputy stop it? No, but he did keep the shooter occupied for a bit. You don't know how many lives that may have saved.

You don't know how many lives he may have saved... But we do know how many lives are taken by guns every year. We also know that in 50 of the 60+ mass shooting cases in the US since 1982, the shooters obtained their guns legally, which leads me to believe that we could have saved some lives with a little tighter gun laws. Not rocket science.

John Rambo · 12-26-2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

If there are no guns, the little Conn. turd just kills his mom with a kitchen knife, then builds a suicide vest from the internet. More problems out there currently than just the devices being used.

Oh really? Is that what would happen? I can't believe you didn't say "he'd go on a ninja-knife killing spree at the elementary school"

That's actually not funny.

Quote:

Or maybe we should just ban stupid?

Nah we can't ban stupid... I'd be way too lonely in this thread without all you guys to share your opinions

Pinoy · 12-26-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rambo

You mean like the Fort Hood military base shooting on November 5, 2009, where a dude killed 13 people and wounded 29 others? This was on a MILITARY BASE, in TEXAS, of all places!!! This is like a gun show in the gun capital of the world.

You're making this way too easy

I'm making this too easy? Somebody didn't do their homework...

That shooting took place in a GUN FREE ZONE on a military base

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rambo

You don't know how many lives he may have saved... But we do know how many lives are taken by guns every year. We also know that in 50 of the 60+ mass shooting cases in the US since 1982, the shooters obtained their guns legally, which leads me to believe that we could have saved some lives with a little tighter gun laws. Not rocket science.

I don't argue that we need tighter gun laws. We do, pure and simple.

kharaa · 12-26-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Rambo

Oh really? Is that what would happen? I can't believe you didn't say "he'd go on a ninja-knife killing spree at the elementary school"

That's actually not funny.

"At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.[2]"

jkkyler · 12-27-2012, 04:59 AM

The knife thing is a red herring. For every stabbing (let's keep it to this country) I would wager heavily there is at least 100 gun deaths.

elwaylite · 12-27-2012, 06:13 AM

Cmon Rambo, too tired last night? All you did was pick out a few points from my long post to make jokes, you passed up a lot of decent ideas on better controlling them.

You might as well give up on guns going away, so we have to find some middle ground here.

elwaylite · 12-27-2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkkyler

The knife thing is a red herring. For every stabbing (let's keep it to this country) I would wager heavily there is at least 100 gun deaths.

Biggest difference is it's hard to kill 20 folks with a knife before you are stopped, not as much with a firearm with high cap mags. Thats where I say bombs come in next. How hard is it to build some pipe bombs and go into a school and blow yourself up?

To me this whole thing is a lot like drunk driving. A lot of us like to consume, and often, but the difference between me and the douchebag on tv is I stayed at home, took a taxi, or got a hotel.

How have we gotten there with DUI's? More strict penalties for breaking the rules, random checks, sensors in cars that wont let you start them if you are over a BAC of a certain %. These are the kinds of ideas they need to throw at guns. Sure, guns are meant to kill things and alcohol is not (unless you count your own body), but the majority of drinkers and gun owners are responsible people. (gun folks enjoy hunting, self defense training, and just the hobby in general)

It's so easy for folks who are scared of guns, or don't believe in them, to dismiss them. This is where we are in society, if you are not PC, lets just sweep you off to a corner, but I think you'll find there is a lot more gun support out there than the media lets on, which is why nothing much is ever done. Look at ol Harry Reid and the state he represents LOL (See AZ gun ownership).

What needs to happen now is for pro gun folks to realize the system is broken, work with the guys on the other side, and see that things can change/improve without "bans".

elwaylite · 12-27-2012, 06:34 AM

On another note, we need a "Cliffsmas" thread. It's a bigger issue right at the moment, and as much as I can lean conservative, Im not too happy with the Repubtards on this one. Im not happy with either side, but...

jkkyler · 12-27-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Biggest difference is it's hard to kill 20 folks with a knife before you are stopped, not as much with a firearm with high cap mags. Thats where I say bombs come in next. How hard is it to build some pipe bombs and go into a school and blow yourself up?

To me this whole thing is a lot like drunk driving. A lot of us like to consume, and often, but the difference between me and the douchebag on tv is I stayed at home, took a taxi, or got a hotel.

How have we gotten there with DUI's? More strict penalties for breaking the rules, random checks, sensors in cars that wont let you start them if you are over a BAC of a certain %. These are the kinds of ideas they need to throw at guns. Sure, guns are meant to kill things and alcohol is not (unless you count your own body), but the majority of drinkers and gun owners are responsible people. (gun folks enjoy hunting, self defense training, and just the hobby in general)

It's so easy for folks who are scared of guns, or don't believe in them, to dismiss them. This is where we are in society, if you are not PC, lets just sweep you off to a corner, but I think you'll find there is a lot more gun support out there than the media lets on, which is why nothing much is ever done. Look at ol Harry Reid and the state he represents LOL (See AZ gun ownership).

What needs to happen now is for pro gun folks to realize the system is broken, work with the guys on the other side, and see that things can change/improve without "bans".

+1 -excellent post. It is easy to forget that the few bad apples spoil it for the rest. The scary thing though is that one bad apple with a gun can cause tremendous destruction, mayhem, and tragedy. It would be nice if people on eother side could come together as you suggest but much like politics people seem to have drawn lines in the sand and feel their way of thinking is the only 'right' way and it is just as important for them to fix the problem their way as it is to fix the problem period.

12-26-2012, 11:11 AM	#166
elwaylite You know who you are... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 1,260	http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...e=domesticNews More stupidity. The fact the guy can't possess an unloaded high cap clip to use as an example is, well... I wonder if he is willing to sell it, I could use another... __________________ Video: TC-P65GT30 / BDP-103 Audio: TX-NR809 / RF-82 II (2) / RC-62 II / VTF-15H HDTV: Dish / Hopper & Joey

12-27-2012, 04:59 AM	#176
jkkyler I bleed for HD Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,322	The knife thing is a red herring. For every stabbing (let's keep it to this country) I would wager heavily there is at least 100 gun deaths. __________________ HT- Panasonic TH-50PZ800U 1080p plasma, Panasonic PT-AX200u LCD projector, Elite Vmax Electric 100' screen, Onkyo TX-NR905 AVR, Paradigm Titan Monitor v5 fronts, Paradigm CC-190 v6 center, Paradigm Atom Monitors v5 surrounds(x4), HSU research VTF-2 sub, xbox360+hd-dvd player ,Sony BDP-S550 blu-ray, D*tv H21 HD-DVR Bedroom: Insignia NS-lcd26, Samsung BDP-1400 blu-ray Den - Vizio 20" 1080p LCD + Samsung BD-p1600 Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Albert Einstein

12-27-2012, 06:13 AM	#177
elwaylite You know who you are... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 1,260	Cmon Rambo, too tired last night? All you did was pick out a few points from my long post to make jokes, you passed up a lot of decent ideas on better controlling them. You might as well give up on guns going away, so we have to find some middle ground here. __________________ Video: TC-P65GT30 / BDP-103 Audio: TX-NR809 / RF-82 II (2) / RC-62 II / VTF-15H HDTV: Dish / Hopper & Joey

12-27-2012, 06:34 AM	#179
elwaylite You know who you are... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 1,260	On another note, we need a "Cliffsmas" thread. It's a bigger issue right at the moment, and as much as I can lean conservative, Im not too happy with the Repubtards on this one. Im not happy with either side, but... __________________ Video: TC-P65GT30 / BDP-103 Audio: TX-NR809 / RF-82 II (2) / RC-62 II / VTF-15H HDTV: Dish / Hopper & Joey

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