Have PlayStation 4 Details Emerged?

Mase · 03-28-2012, 11:36 AM

This does not sound like Sony at all, why would they abandon the Cell after investing all that time and money?

I also dont like the restrictions for backwards compatibility.

What do you guys think?

IGN

Quote:

Today, Kotaku posted a story containing alleged details on Sony's next home console, the PlayStation 4. Kotaku claims that the details of the story "come from a reliable source who is not authorized to talk publically about next-gen hardware but has shared correct information with [the publication] before." According to this source, the next PlayStation is codenamed Orbis and will launch in the 2013 holiday season.

Kotaku notes that the predicted specs of the Orbis currently include an AMD x64 CPU and AMD Southern Islands GPU. The source told Kotaku that "select developers" have already received dev kits at the beginning of the year and revised kits arrived around the time of the Game Developers Conference earlier this month.

Furthermore, according to Kotaku's source, Orbis will not feature backwards compatibility with PlayStation 3 games and will incorporate some sort of used-games restriction. Apparently, once a consumer inserts a Blu-ray disc into Orbis it must be tied to a PSN account and can no longer be shared. The data can be installed onto the system and flagged as "downloaded" from the PSN so it can be re-downloaded for future use. Sources are "unclear" as to how the disc functions following this, though one possibility is that the disc can allow consumers to access trial content before purchasing the full game on their console.

IGN contacted Sony for a comment on these rumors. The official response: "we don't comment on rumors or speculation." If any other details emerge, we will update this article.

Pinoy · 03-28-2012, 12:20 PM

I think the origin of this rumour is full of shite.
(not you Mase, the Demerjian guy loltaku got it from)

awol · 03-28-2012, 12:48 PM

I'm not surprised to hear that new consoles won't do BWC. The PS3 already closed that door for the most part to be honest.

It's interesting about the "no used games" thing though. That was rumored with the next Xbox as well. I never thought about them being able to do it through the disc itself. For the disc to have a unique code that would only allow a disc to be used on that machine... Interesting concept. Except it's not taking into account the people who don't play online, and I just don't think it's feasible for them to store that many key's on a physical machine. Who even knows how many games would be released for the new console? How would they get new keys to consoles that aren't online? Maybe thru the disc itself?

Noct · 03-28-2012, 01:34 PM

I think it's pretty clear that BC is going the way of the Dodo. Some of it is definately hardware costs, but I don't believe for a second that the whole PSN/XBL nostalgia kick of re-releasing last-gen games "in HD" isn't just as much to blame now. It's just a super-profitable business model, and consumers are buying it up.

As far as the used thing goes; I think people are being a little reactionary in the response to it... They have been pretty clear that they have no intentions on banning used game sales or attempting to stop you from playing them in any way; what most actual devs are reporting is that they have heard rumblings about a hardware-based online-pass model.

Meaning, the same shit we have now, but a hardware-based solution that they could implant at the console level so that individual games don't have to deal with it.

If we do see that tech make it in there (and I'm not even convinced we will), I don't expect that things are going to change much. I don't believe they will actually push for a model where you get one install off the disk and then it is worthless. That just doesn't sound like it will fly to me.. I mean, just think about what it would do to the rental market.

jkkyler · 03-28-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noct

I think it's pretty clear that BC is going the way of the Dodo. Some of it is definately hardware costs, but I don't believe for a second that the whole PSN/XBL nostalgia kick of re-releasing last-gen games "in HD" isn't just as much to blame now. It's just a super-profitable business model, and consumers are buying it up.

As far as the used thing goes; I think people are being a little reactionary in the response to it... They have been pretty clear that they have no intentions on banning used game sales or attempting to stop you from playing them in any way; what most actual devs are reporting is that they have heard rumblings about a hardware-based online-pass model.

Meaning, the same shit we have now, but a hardware-based solution that they could implant at the console level so that individual games don't have to deal with it.

If we do see that tech make it in there (and I'm not even convinced we will), I don't expect that things are going to change much. I don't believe they will actually push for a model where you get one install off the disk and then it is worthless. That just doesn't sound like it will fly to me.. I mean, just think about what it would do to the rental market.

Sony is not in the rental business and they couldn't care less about it. As far as they are concerened every rental is a lost sale (much like how studios and devs erroneously equate every bootleg copy as a lost sale) even though many of those sales wouldn't have occured otherwise. I have seen soooooooo much speculation on next gen for multiple platforms that somebody out of the hundreds is bound to be right but only time will tell

awol · 03-28-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noct

If we do see that tech make it in there (and I'm not even convinced we will), I don't expect that things are going to change much. I don't believe they will actually push for a model where you get one install off the disk and then it is worthless. That just doesn't sound like it will fly to me.. I mean, just think about what it would do to the rental market.

I think it would be pretty simple actually. Studios are already releasing "Rental" versions of Blu-Ray discs. They have completely unskippable previews and ads. Plus the discs themselves are devoid of artwork, they're just generic grey (most I've seen) and have the title of the movie and the studio logo.

Easy to carry that model over to games. It's just data after all.

Cygnus · 03-28-2012, 01:58 PM

Wow..talk about greed. Sony used to brag about their consoles being BC. And now they want to eliminate used game sales. While I normally don't buy used games, I feel that consumers have the right to buy them. Imagine if we could only buy new houses and cars. These game companies are getting too greedy IMHO. You know EA and activ were behind this. It may be time to find another hobby.

Mase · 03-28-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

I think it would be pretty simple actually. Studios are already releasing "Rental" versions of Blu-Ray discs. They have completely unskippable previews and ads. Plus the discs themselves are devoid of artwork, they're just generic grey (most I've seen) and have the title of the movie and the studio logo.

Easy to carry that model over to games. It's just data after all.

Yea I received a couple of those already from Blockbuster and you cant watch any of the extras (which I ALWAYS do). I was like WTF?

I can see games doing this as well, locking out features or not including certain data on the disc to do certain things and in order to do those things you have to buy a license and DL the missing data. Or like Noct said, how things are now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy

I think the origin of this rumour is full of shite.
(not you Mase, the Demerjian guy loltaku got it from)

Ohhhh man, I thought you were calling me out!

Noct · 03-28-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkkyler

Sony is not in the rental business and they couldn't care less about it. As far as they are concerened every rental is a lost sale (much like how studios and devs erroneously equate every bootleg copy as a lost sale)

I'm sure that mentality is there to a degree (and it's as absurd as it is with pirating), but I'm not only talking about the end-consumers.

Think about the hit they would take if every RedBox, BlockBuster, etc.. All stopped renting games. That actually IS lost sales of the title, and a lot of them.

Either way, it's not going to make or break Sony one way or the other, but it could certianly do a number on small game studios to take that hit, and those places are already struggling to stay above water now.

The truth is that rentals and used games obviously do NOT equate to legitimate sales of the game, and those revenues would not be returned by the new market. You'd have to be insane to think so, so a company basing their future business model on it seems a little nuts to me. As stupid as we like to think corporations are... they ain't stupid.

Noct · 03-28-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awol

I think it would be pretty simple actually. Studios are already releasing "Rental" versions of Blu-Ray discs. They have completely unskippable previews and ads. Plus the discs themselves are devoid of artwork, they're just generic grey (most I've seen) and have the title of the movie and the studio logo.

Easy to carry that model over to games. It's just data after all.

Good point, but even that would have to be altered to work with this model... You'd have to incorperate a different disk-checking system into those then standard disks, and that sounds like a fantastic back-door to piracy to me...

This of course, if they went with a true one-play and the disk is worthless type system.

You're right though, it could definately be done, but I don't think it would be all that simple all things considered. I expect we'll see nothing but a hardware based online-pass model.

jkkyler · 03-28-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noct

I'm sure that mentality is there to a degree (and it's as absurd as it is with pirating), but I'm not only talking about the end-consumers.

Think about the hit they would take if every RedBox, BlockBuster, etc.. All stopped renting games. That actually IS lost sales of the title, and a lot of them.

Either way, it's not going to make or break Sony one way or the other, but it could certianly do a number on small game studios to take that hit, and those places are already struggling to stay above water now.

The truth is that rentals and used games obviously do NOT equate to legitimate sales of the game, and those revenues would not be returned by the new market. You'd have to be insane to think so, so a company basing their future business model on it seems a little nuts to me. As stupid as we like to think corporations are... they ain't stupid.

Hard to speculate if rentals weren't available how many would break down and buy the game.
Example: People who have gamefly pay a set fee each month and get as many titles as they desire (based on plan). If that option is taken away they probably will still buy games but which games and how many becomes the key factors. Also would they end up spending more or less on games. For me since EA introduced on-line pass I have bought exactly 2 of their games (Tiger Woods - The Masters and solely because of Augusta National and the Masters being the Focus and BF3) whereas befor ethat I probably bought 5-10 Ea titles a year if not more (though many used).

Pinoy · 03-28-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mase

Ohhhh man, I thought you were calling me out!

Haha, no...but the origin on this really is full of shit. Same guy who's made a bunch of predictions, but none of them ever came to pass. So I'm not buying into any of this, at all.

amdgamer · 03-28-2012, 07:12 PM

Those rumors about the hardware specs are right on with all the other rumors about the hardware in the past. When it comes to this next generation, AMD appears to have really cleaned house.

It makes perfect sense why they would abandon the CELL considering that it was arguably one of the biggest problems with the PS3. The complexity of it not only caused developers to have trouble optimizing games for it, but also increased game development times due to that same reason. Besides, the CELL was an insanely specialized processor and going a more general purpose processor route will at least make it easier for developers.

Pinoy · 03-29-2012, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdgamer

Those rumors about the hardware specs are right on with all the other rumors about the hardware in the past. When it comes to this next generation, AMD appears to have really cleaned house.

Because they're all coming from the same guy.

railven · 03-29-2012, 08:03 AM

Here is my take on this stuff:

1) Demerijan (sp?) if it's the same guy (I can't open the link here, going to assume) he runs Semiaccurate, a well known shill site for AMD that has in the past been more spot on than wrong with anything related to AMD (in terms of performance, take his evaluation with tons of salt, but spec wise he has a good accuracy.) If he is saying this about AMD, expect it to be relatively true. Anything he says about nVidia salt it so much you instantly die. He hates nVidia to the point where he'd openly lie about performance (however, again his sources on hardware are rather good.)

2) B/C remember older hardware was built on archaic closed systems by IBM that use CPU code exclusive to their hardware. This isn't about them trying to dick you or be greedy, this is more about them not having the foresight to build a system that used a long last mirco-code. Remember Microsoft ran into this issue with 360 going from a branch-logic Intel x86 microcode to a IBM PowerPC parallel system. And if Microsoft returns to x86 code (or even ARM) you'll get B/C in one form - either Xbox1 games running great (x86) or 360 games running great (ARM) unless they can bridge the gap in the code (possible, Windows 8 is being built with uniplatform mentallity ie all code would work on all platforms - long shot, but if anyone can do it sure is Microsoft.) Sony on the other hand has been using a closed parallel system since the start PS1/PS2 and branched out with the PS3 which is why they had B/C issues with PS2 games (PS1 is all cpu code, PS2 used a GPU closed system, PS3 used an standard CPU (ie all PS1 games play easily) but removed the closed GPU in favor of a more robust known API (DirectX) and thus PS2 games suffered. However, with the PS4 (Orbis) if they go with a completely new CPU architecture (x64 - extension of x86) this is where I see them running into the biggest issues with B/C. They CAN do it, it would just require a whole re-write of their code (think of all the emulator software on PC, of all of it none of them work 100% with all games and the ones with the widest game support often have crashes and lots of bugs.) It seems Sony is really taking a new approach with Orbis, I wonder if they'll use an AMD APU out the gate - this would be a huge start for them, however, if they don't plan it right they can run into some severe bottlenecks.

3) Rental issue seems to be really pressed more from developers than the console manufacturers. They ultimately get nothing in return if games are locked to one console (outside of someone buying more consoles, but how likely is that?) If anything, it seems they are moving more towards the current PC structure. I got no issues with them trying to do this, however, they have to adopt what the PC system is evolving to. $50+ titles are now rare in the PC ecosystem outside of games such as Modern Warfare. Even Battlefield 3 saw significant price drops on the PC. If they want to start combating piracy by locking games to a system/user or restricting the amount of resales (ie unique unlocks) they have to start giving up the huge $60 price tags. The PC community is seeing a resurrection thanks to Valve and Steam to the point where even EA jumped on the bandwagon and Activision has hinted at looking into their own service (ie Blizzard already has one established.) $10-20 game prices with no resale option to me is fair, $60 price tag with no resale option is mind fucking wrong and if they don't try to find a middle ground it will blow up in their faces (hopefully.) Mobile games have no option of transfer and it was only recently that they started being bound to an account versus a device, for $1 to $5, I don't think anybody has issues with no resale options.

03-28-2012, 12:20 PM	#2
Pinoy I'm here for the lulz Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11,829	I think the origin of this rumour is full of shite. (not you Mase, the Demerjian guy loltaku got it from) __________________ SteamID: Zr0 Speed up your PS3 Network Connection

03-28-2012, 01:34 PM	#4
Noct Toys in the attic... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NY Posts: 1,253	I think it's pretty clear that BC is going the way of the Dodo. Some of it is definately hardware costs, but I don't believe for a second that the whole PSN/XBL nostalgia kick of re-releasing last-gen games "in HD" isn't just as much to blame now. It's just a super-profitable business model, and consumers are buying it up. As far as the used thing goes; I think people are being a little reactionary in the response to it... They have been pretty clear that they have no intentions on banning used game sales or attempting to stop you from playing them in any way; what most actual devs are reporting is that they have heard rumblings about a hardware-based online-pass model. Meaning, the same shit we have now, but a hardware-based solution that they could implant at the console level so that individual games don't have to deal with it. If we do see that tech make it in there (and I'm not even convinced we will), I don't expect that things are going to change much. I don't believe they will actually push for a model where you get one install off the disk and then it is worthless. That just doesn't sound like it will fly to me.. I mean, just think about what it would do to the rental market. __________________ You've got red on you.

03-28-2012, 01:58 PM	#7
Cygnus The Bringer of Balance Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11,350	Wow..talk about greed. Sony used to brag about their consoles being BC. And now they want to eliminate used game sales. While I normally don't buy used games, I feel that consumers have the right to buy them. Imagine if we could only buy new houses and cars. These game companies are getting too greedy IMHO. You know EA and activ were behind this. It may be time to find another hobby. __________________ Panasonic P55 ST30 Kenwood VR-616 Comcast DCT6412 III XBox 360 GamerTag Sec0nd2N0n3

03-28-2012, 07:12 PM	#13
amdgamer AMD must survive Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,849	Those rumors about the hardware specs are right on with all the other rumors about the hardware in the past. When it comes to this next generation, AMD appears to have really cleaned house. It makes perfect sense why they would abandon the CELL considering that it was arguably one of the biggest problems with the PS3. The complexity of it not only caused developers to have trouble optimizing games for it, but also increased game development times due to that same reason. Besides, the CELL was an insanely specialized processor and going a more general purpose processor route will at least make it easier for developers. __________________ X360 Elite with HD-DVD add-on, gamertag junehhan Toshiba HD-A1, XDE-600 players -Klipsch RSW10, Pioneer VSX1016TXVK Personal and Small Business Banker, Wells Fargo Member of Downtown Homer Rotary club Goodbye our friend PFC5 and Loves2Watch. You will be greatly missed

03-29-2012, 08:03 AM	#15
railven PLS C SIG: Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 11,501	Here is my take on this stuff: 1) Demerijan (sp?) if it's the same guy (I can't open the link here, going to assume) he runs Semiaccurate, a well known shill site for AMD that has in the past been more spot on than wrong with anything related to AMD (in terms of performance, take his evaluation with tons of salt, but spec wise he has a good accuracy.) If he is saying this about AMD, expect it to be relatively true. Anything he says about nVidia salt it so much you instantly die. He hates nVidia to the point where he'd openly lie about performance (however, again his sources on hardware are rather good.) 2) B/C remember older hardware was built on archaic closed systems by IBM that use CPU code exclusive to their hardware. This isn't about them trying to dick you or be greedy, this is more about them not having the foresight to build a system that used a long last mirco-code. Remember Microsoft ran into this issue with 360 going from a branch-logic Intel x86 microcode to a IBM PowerPC parallel system. And if Microsoft returns to x86 code (or even ARM) you'll get B/C in one form - either Xbox1 games running great (x86) or 360 games running great (ARM) unless they can bridge the gap in the code (possible, Windows 8 is being built with uniplatform mentallity ie all code would work on all platforms - long shot, but if anyone can do it sure is Microsoft.) Sony on the other hand has been using a closed parallel system since the start PS1/PS2 and branched out with the PS3 which is why they had B/C issues with PS2 games (PS1 is all cpu code, PS2 used a GPU closed system, PS3 used an standard CPU (ie all PS1 games play easily) but removed the closed GPU in favor of a more robust known API (DirectX) and thus PS2 games suffered. However, with the PS4 (Orbis) if they go with a completely new CPU architecture (x64 - extension of x86) this is where I see them running into the biggest issues with B/C. They CAN do it, it would just require a whole re-write of their code (think of all the emulator software on PC, of all of it none of them work 100% with all games and the ones with the widest game support often have crashes and lots of bugs.) It seems Sony is really taking a new approach with Orbis, I wonder if they'll use an AMD APU out the gate - this would be a huge start for them, however, if they don't plan it right they can run into some severe bottlenecks. 3) Rental issue seems to be really pressed more from developers than the console manufacturers. They ultimately get nothing in return if games are locked to one console (outside of someone buying more consoles, but how likely is that?) If anything, it seems they are moving more towards the current PC structure. I got no issues with them trying to do this, however, they have to adopt what the PC system is evolving to. $50+ titles are now rare in the PC ecosystem outside of games such as Modern Warfare. Even Battlefield 3 saw significant price drops on the PC. If they want to start combating piracy by locking games to a system/user or restricting the amount of resales (ie unique unlocks) they have to start giving up the huge $60 price tags. The PC community is seeing a resurrection thanks to Valve and Steam to the point where even EA jumped on the bandwagon and Activision has hinted at looking into their own service (ie Blizzard already has one established.) $10-20 game prices with no resale option to me is fair, $60 price tag with no resale option is mind fucking wrong and if they don't try to find a middle ground it will blow up in their faces (hopefully.) Mobile games have no option of transfer and it was only recently that they started being bound to an account versus a device, for $1 to $5, I don't think anybody has issues with no resale options. Last edited by railven; 03-29-2012 at 08:09 AM.

03-28-2012, 12:48 PM	#3
awol I'm Fabulous. Obviously. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 7,351	I'm not surprised to hear that new consoles won't do BWC. The PS3 already closed that door for the most part to be honest. It's interesting about the "no used games" thing though. That was rumored with the next Xbox as well. I never thought about them being able to do it through the disc itself. For the disc to have a unique code that would only allow a disc to be used on that machine... Interesting concept. Except it's not taking into account the people who don't play online, and I just don't think it's feasible for them to store that many key's on a physical machine. Who even knows how many games would be released for the new console? How would they get new keys to consoles that aren't online? Maybe thru the disc itself?

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