Windows 7 and unsigned drivers: aka This operating system is useless

kamspy · 12-14-2009, 10:09 AM

I was spending my first real good amount of hands on time with W7 over the weekend, and I came across something rather unsettling.

I was installing RivaTuner, uTorrent, ImgBurn and a few other essentials and I got some nasty prompts about W7 not allowing unsigned drivers at all. It's not like in Vista were it tells you that the driver is unsigned and you still have the option to use it, it just cuts you off.

Given this news, I'm really thinking about sticking with Vista. Maybe I'll put 7 on a netbook or something that doesn't have the horsepower for Vista, but screw them telling the consumer what kind of drivers they can use.

Where's the outrage for this fellas? I hadn't heard a peep about it until I encountered it.

Have we really gotten so soft that we can't even choose the lube we get screwed with now?

I don't want to end up some hairy Linux dweeb, but W7 in it's current state is unusable for my needs.

Shark2k · 12-14-2009, 11:06 AM

I installed uTorrent and ImgBurn and had not problems. What programs did you get those prompts on? Also, did you disable the UAC settings? I disabled thoughs cause they personally annoy me, prompting when you do almost anything. Everything I installed I do not remember it ever popping up with an unsigned driver prompt. Also, what version do you have?

-Shark2k

kamspy · 12-14-2009, 11:11 AM

I was at my dads. Pretty sure it's 64 pro. He didn't have UAC disabled and I wasn't going to do that on his system, but if that does indeed do away with the inability to used unsigned drivers than I'd be in business.

The prompt didn't mention UAC, just the inability to use unsigned drivers in this new version of windows for my safety!

I just googled and found out there are a few ways around it but no final solution.

http://www.google.com/search?q=windo...ient=firefox-a

kamspy · 12-14-2009, 11:14 AM

Oh, the SPTD driver in Daemon Tools won't run and one of the apps that comes with RivaTuner won't run. Luckily in the case of the RivaTuner app I don't use it.

I just wonder how many more of these conflicts I would have. The Daemon Tools bit is pretty serious.

Shark2k · 12-14-2009, 11:36 AM

I guess I just never installed anything yet that had unsigned drivers on my Windows 7 machine.

-Shark2k

eiger · 12-14-2009, 02:48 PM

Installing stuff without authenticode signed drivers is a bad idea overall, and it's the requirements are there for your protection.

Although I've installed lots of third party tools for ripping DVDs, mounting ISOs and HTPC related stuff and never ran into any issues on my Win7 machine.

More power to you if you want to stay with Vista, but you'll be taking a potential performance/reliability hit

kamspy · 12-14-2009, 07:09 PM

Eh, I don't need Microsoft to protect me from myself. I'd prefer to be able to use the drivers I want. I finally found some home brewed drivers for my HP printer(I can't stand HP software and drivers. horrible horrible stuff) and I really doubt they'd fly on W7.

Now, I'm sure that eventually there will be a definitive solution around this, but needing one really defeats what I was hoping for out of Windows 7. For a user like me it's a step in the wrong direction. I guess it's good for people who surf limewire and download myspace themes from Czek Republic servers and whatnot, but I don't want that blanket of assumed protection wrapped around the software that manages my personal files.

I did get Virtual Clone Drive to work, but it can't do some of the lower level stuff that DTools can.

I don't see any performance hit either since DX11 got patched into Vista.

I don't know. But I am on wait and see until something get figured out about the unsigned code. I don't need MS to keep my computer 'safe'. I can only guess what MS defines 'safe' for their consumers computers. My guess is it isn't only things that protect the end user from potential viruses.

xcitor · 12-14-2009, 07:52 PM

Kam,
I have installed Utorrent, among other programs without a hitch at all.

I'm using 7 64 Ultimate.

Since I never came across the problem, I don't really have any solutions.

That's my personal experience with 7.

I F'in LOVE it.

marcallo · 12-15-2009, 03:09 AM

I just find it funny that all those programs you mentioned are used to illegally download content. Yes I realize there are legitimate uses to them as well, but most people who have those are stealing shit. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed a problem...

kamspy · 12-15-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcallo

I just find it funny that all those programs you mentioned are used to illegally download content. Yes I realize there are legitimate uses to them as well, but most people who have those are stealing shit. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed a problem...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/kamspy/games

Hell yeah. Who needs to steal games when I can pay for them.

You make a good point for my case though. Wonder if Microsoft is protecting the consumer with the unsigned driver thing or themselves.

Loves2Watch · 12-15-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

http://steamcommunity.com/id/kamspy/games

Hell yeah. Who needs to steal games when I can pay for them.

You make a good point for my case though. Wonder if Microsoft is protecting the consumer with the unsigned driver thing or themselves.

You know its all about Hollywood, game manufacturers and DRM, don't you...Microsoft is now becoming "big brother"

kamspy · 12-16-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

You know its all about Hollywood, game manufacturers and DRM, don't you...Microsoft is now becoming "big brother"

Correct. My thread was more me wondering where the outrage was.

For me, this issue is worse than any previous Windows iteration driver/performance issues.

Since they put it in Vista SP2, I guess they don't have any intention of patching it out. So I guess I'll wait to use the DX11 libraries until there's complete work around.

marcallo · 12-16-2009, 10:27 AM

I'm guessing they are protecting themselves via the guise of protecting consumers. It's a company and they like making money. can't blame them there. I've had intellectual property stolen and it hurts. The difference is I'm a little guy and was robbed by a big company. I can't go into specifics but I've probably lost a couple hundred thousand dollars over the past 7 years because I had a design that was ripped off. Or as they put it "faithfully recreated an original".

kamspy · 12-16-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcallo

I'm guessing they are protecting themselves via the guise of protecting consumers. It's a company and they like making money. can't blame them there. I've had intellectual property stolen and it hurts. The difference is I'm a little guy and was robbed by a big company. I can't go into specifics but I've probably lost a couple hundred thousand dollars over the past 7 years because I had a design that was ripped off. Or as they put it "faithfully recreated an original".

What's left to steal if the person with Windows 7 has already bought or pirated it? You can pirate Office without any of the programs they're blocking out. What else is there for them to protect? They stopped publishing PC games, and AFAIK, they don't have any major shared interests with any media publishers (movies, music etc). Even if they do, virtual drives aren't used for music or movie piracy.

What am I missing here? The only program I know of that can rip 360 games is the only virtual drive app that will fully install on W7.

Do people still think every pirated copy of software = a lost sale?

railven · 12-16-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

What's left to steal if the person with Windows 7 has already bought or pirated it? You can pirate Office without any of the programs they're blocking out. What else is there for them to protect? They stopped publishing PC games, and AFAIK, they don't have any major shared interests with any media publishers (movies, music etc). Even if they do, virtual drives aren't used for music or movie piracy.

What am I missing here? The only program I know of that can rip 360 games is the only virtual drive app that will fully install on W7.

Do people still think every pirated copy of software = a lost sale?

I actually think the unsigned driver purpose is the same for the over compulsion UAC.

People tend to download shit by accident on the assumption it is an "update." The unsigned drive protection would prevent that from installing (no more "I thought it was a legitimate update" scenarios) and thus protecting the end user from installing a key logger.

There is a work around, Kams, said software developer just needs to submit their code for authentication. If they run a legitimate software corporation, and use legitimate tools, there is no reason why Microsoft will flag them.

This gives Microsoft more control on what freely gets installed on their OS and gives end users more piece of mind. We can argue on where we stand in terms of that.

As long as I can keep using all the apps I need, I'm perfectly happy.

12-14-2009, 10:09 AM	#1
kamspy of Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 16,045	Windows 7 and unsigned drivers: aka This operating system is useless I was spending my first real good amount of hands on time with W7 over the weekend, and I came across something rather unsettling. I was installing RivaTuner, uTorrent, ImgBurn and a few other essentials and I got some nasty prompts about W7 not allowing unsigned drivers at all. It's not like in Vista were it tells you that the driver is unsigned and you still have the option to use it, it just cuts you off. Given this news, I'm really thinking about sticking with Vista. Maybe I'll put 7 on a netbook or something that doesn't have the horsepower for Vista, but screw them telling the consumer what kind of drivers they can use. Where's the outrage for this fellas? I hadn't heard a peep about it until I encountered it. Have we really gotten so soft that we can't even choose the lube we get screwed with now? I don't want to end up some hairy Linux dweeb, but W7 in it's current state is unusable for my needs.

12-14-2009, 02:48 PM	#6
eiger High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Evil Empire, WA Posts: 1,047	Installing stuff without authenticode signed drivers is a bad idea overall, and it's the requirements are there for your protection. Although I've installed lots of third party tools for ripping DVDs, mounting ISOs and HTPC related stuff and never ran into any issues on my Win7 machine. More power to you if you want to stay with Vista, but you'll be taking a potential performance/reliability hit __________________ ================ -XBOX 360 over HDMI -XBOX HD-DVD -Panasonic DMP-BD30K -Tag Nostronomo \| PSN ID EigerSanction76 -110" 16:9 Carada -SONOS ZP90 and S3 2 zone system -Epson 7500UB 1080p Projector -Comcast HD-DVR over HDMI -Klipsch VF-35 Mains -Klipsch VC-25 Center -Emotiva ERD-1 Side/Rear Surround -Elemental Designs A7s-450 18" Sub. -Klipsch Sub-10 -Onkyo TX-SR805 Receiver -Harmony 1100 + RF

12-14-2009, 07:52 PM	#8
xcitor F'IN CAMPERS!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 26 Posts: 489	Kam, I have installed Utorrent, among other programs without a hitch at all. I'm using 7 64 Ultimate. Since I never came across the problem, I don't really have any solutions. That's my personal experience with 7. I F'in LOVE it. __________________ 50" Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD Onkyo TX-SR805 PS3 Slim w/ 320GB HDD Fronts: Mirage OMNI 550 Center: Mirage OMNI C150 Surrounds: Mirage OMNI 150 Rear Surrounds: Mirage OMNI 150 Subwoofer: Infinity PS-212 Monster Cable Surge Protector HTPC: Case: SiverStone LC13-E Motherboard: Asus P5E CPU: Intel Q6600 @ 3.2 Memory: 6 GB A-Data 6400 @ 800 1:1 HDD: WD 640 GB Video: Sapphire 4890 @ 950/1000 Power: PC P&C 750 Silencer PSN: xombekiller PS3: 53 : 250 Last edited by xcitor; 12-14-2009 at 09:44 PM.

12-14-2009, 11:06 AM	#2
Shark2k High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Orange, NJ Age: 24 Posts: 658	I installed uTorrent and ImgBurn and had not problems. What programs did you get those prompts on? Also, did you disable the UAC settings? I disabled thoughs cause they personally annoy me, prompting when you do almost anything. Everything I installed I do not remember it ever popping up with an unsigned driver prompt. Also, what version do you have? -Shark2k

12-14-2009, 11:11 AM	#3
kamspy of Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 16,045	I was at my dads. Pretty sure it's 64 pro. He didn't have UAC disabled and I wasn't going to do that on his system, but if that does indeed do away with the inability to used unsigned drivers than I'd be in business. The prompt didn't mention UAC, just the inability to use unsigned drivers in this new version of windows for my safety! I just googled and found out there are a few ways around it but no final solution. http://www.google.com/search?q=windo...ient=firefox-a

12-14-2009, 11:14 AM	#4
kamspy of Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 16,045	Oh, the SPTD driver in Daemon Tools won't run and one of the apps that comes with RivaTuner won't run. Luckily in the case of the RivaTuner app I don't use it. I just wonder how many more of these conflicts I would have. The Daemon Tools bit is pretty serious.

12-14-2009, 11:36 AM	#5
Shark2k High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Orange, NJ Age: 24 Posts: 658	I guess I just never installed anything yet that had unsigned drivers on my Windows 7 machine. -Shark2k

12-14-2009, 07:09 PM	#7
kamspy of Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 16,045	Eh, I don't need Microsoft to protect me from myself. I'd prefer to be able to use the drivers I want. I finally found some home brewed drivers for my HP printer(I can't stand HP software and drivers. horrible horrible stuff) and I really doubt they'd fly on W7. Now, I'm sure that eventually there will be a definitive solution around this, but needing one really defeats what I was hoping for out of Windows 7. For a user like me it's a step in the wrong direction. I guess it's good for people who surf limewire and download myspace themes from Czek Republic servers and whatnot, but I don't want that blanket of assumed protection wrapped around the software that manages my personal files. I did get Virtual Clone Drive to work, but it can't do some of the lower level stuff that DTools can. I don't see any performance hit either since DX11 got patched into Vista. I don't know. But I am on wait and see until something get figured out about the unsigned code. I don't need MS to keep my computer 'safe'. I can only guess what MS defines 'safe' for their consumers computers. My guess is it isn't only things that protect the end user from potential viruses.

12-15-2009, 03:09 AM	#9
marcallo HD Lover, 3D Hater... Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,270	I just find it funny that all those programs you mentioned are used to illegally download content. Yes I realize there are legitimate uses to them as well, but most people who have those are stealing shit. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed a problem...

12-16-2009, 10:27 AM	#13
marcallo HD Lover, 3D Hater... Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,270	I'm guessing they are protecting themselves via the guise of protecting consumers. It's a company and they like making money. can't blame them there. I've had intellectual property stolen and it hurts. The difference is I'm a little guy and was robbed by a big company. I can't go into specifics but I've probably lost a couple hundred thousand dollars over the past 7 years because I had a design that was ripped off. Or as they put it "faithfully recreated an original".