High-end HDTV shoot-out event

**PFC5** · 07-02-2009, 02:36 PM

ricwhite · 07-02-2009, 08:55 PM

Nice shootout and results. I heard that DTV Dealer -- Robert Z. -- was lifetime banned from the "other" forum for not renewing his affiliation. Is that true?

**PFC5** · 07-02-2009, 09:14 PM

I do not know if it is true or not, but banning someone because they do not agree to continue to pay to be an "affiliate" or sponsor, sounds like some form of extortion to me.

You have been a member for almost 2 years and you make your first post something about this?

DTV TiVo Dealer · 07-03-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleb

Neither Panasonic or Samsung is right behind Kuro. You are half right.

The differences are not significant between Pan & Sam, nor were they last year.
Panasonic has a little better black level, the Samsung a little better color accuracy. Comes down more to personal taste.
Many prefer Panasonic because of their stellar rep for reliability over pretty much anything else, including Pioneer.
But when it comes to performance the Kuro is the leader of the pack (still).

I kind of agree with your observations. Yes color accuracy is better on the Samsung B860 and it lead to an overall better pq when viewing general content. Pasnasonic's V10 has slightly better black level than Samsung's B860.

Also Panasonic's extra layer of glass made off angle viewing a little disappointing when high contrast scenes came on as you can see the double image as it reflects inside the sandwiched glass panels. It looks like Samsung went the way of the Kuro with one less layer of glass in the pdp construction.

All of the calibrators, my custom a/v techs and myself expected the V10 to perform better than the other panels (other than the KRP-500M with it's 10g glass and ISFccc day night modes). We were surprised to see Samsung's B860 come in ahead of the V10. Overall, Panasonic's V10 is an excellent HDTV.

And it's true I was banned for life by the management of AVS Forum. I'm shocked and dismayed by what is clearly a mistake and very poor judgment.

-Robert

daleb · 07-03-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

And it's true I was banned for life by the management of AVS Forum. I'm shocked and dismayed by what is clearly a mistake and very poor judgment.

-Robert

I am sure you have lots of company in that regard, Robert.

So you think Panasonic & Samsung will just continue to the bitter end as the leaders in PQ for plasma until a newer technology comes along?
Anything new you can see on the horizon for the near future in the way of a newer technology? It would appear both LCD and plasma are nearing a point of diminishing returns with regards to price/performance.

DTV TiVo Dealer · 07-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Thanks daleb ^^. I'm hurt and angry but am happy to receive all of the support from the AVS Forum membership who have voiced their feelings. Even though most are very quickly removed by the management just seeing them briefly gives me a warm feeling knowing that my 7 years of active membership with over 4900 helpful posts have built a bond of appreciation and recognition of the general membership.

In 2011, we'll see OLED in larger sizes and at price points that won't require a mortgage application approved in advance. I expect we'll see Pioneer back in the video display business with OLED in 2011 along with Sony and Samsung.

Also in 2010 and 2011 we'll begin seeing 4k, which is actually 3,840p panels and the beginning of the new standards for HD 3-D on BD content and in flat panels and front projection displays.

I touched on this at the closing of my last HD shoot-out and we are working with content providers and CE manufacturers to secure demonstration material for our 2010 high-end HD shoot-out event.

Stay tuned, the best is yet to come.

-Robert

davidjschenk · 07-03-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleb

If you are going by final overall score, your list is wrong.

Hi daleb,

I don't think that was the overall score quoted; it was D-Nice's personal hierarchy, wasn't it? He was very impressed with the LG and the calibration reports fully explain why. The Toshiba also did very very well, but I think its higher mll and poorer grayscale tracking and color points got it knocked down a few points for him.

The mll on the LG was much, much lower than the audience's subjective reactions indicated (off-axis viewing, perhaps).

Yours,

David

**PFC5** · 07-03-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

Thanks daleb ^^. I'm hurt and angry but am happy to receive all of the support from the AVS Forum membership who have voiced their feelings. Even though most are very quickly removed by the management just seeing them briefly gives me a warm feeling knowing that my 7 years of active membership with over 4900 helpful posts have built a bond of appreciation and recognition of the general membership.

In 2011, we'll see OLED in larger sizes and at price points that won't require a mortgage application approved in advance. I expect we'll see Pioneer back in the video display business with OLED in 2011 along with Sony and Samsung.

Also in 2010 and 2011 we'll begin seeing 4k, which is actually 3,840p panels and the beginning of the new standards for HD 3-D on BD content and in flat panels and front projection displays.

I touched on this at the closing of my last HD shoot-out and we are working with content providers and CE manufacturers to secure demonstration material for our 2010 high-end HD shoot-out event.

Stay tuned, the best is yet to come.

-Robert

I find this amazing that they did this over at AVS, but know you and your helpful posts are always welcome here Robert!

DonnyDC · 07-03-2009, 04:14 PM

Id like to see Vizio included. Yeah they may be a lower brand but seeing LG matching Samsung and Sony doing so horrible who knows how these things can go.

davidjschenk · 07-03-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

Id like to see Vizio included. Yeah they may be a lower brand but seeing LG matching Samsung and Sony doing so horrible who knows how these things can go.

Plus, they are taking the consumer market by storm. I'd love to have their problems...

Yours,

David

daleb · 07-03-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Hi daleb,

I don't think that was the overall score quoted; it was D-Nice's personal hierarchy, wasn't it? He was very impressed with the LG and the calibration reports fully explain why. The Toshiba also did very very well, but I think its higher mll and poorer grayscale tracking and color points got it knocked down a few points for him.

The mll on the LG was much, much lower than the audience's subjective reactions indicated (off-axis viewing, perhaps).

Yours,

David

Interesting perspective. Well, I like to think the masters stay as objective as possible. But I can understand where LG and more recently, Toshiba have been 'also-rans' in the perception of many.
It would appear they ALL bring something positive to this technology, but some folks get more excited than others.

It certainly would not be the first time something looked better than the absolute numbers would have led some to believe it should.

We have some friends in the White Plains area, hope to wrap a vacation around next year's event. Maybe have a chance to meet PFC5 & others as well.

davidjschenk · 07-03-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleb

Interesting perspective.

Uh-oh. That means I just said something really stupid, doesn't it? Gurrf. What'd I do?

Yours,

David

daleb · 07-03-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Uh-oh. That means I just said something really stupid, doesn't it? Gurrf. What'd I do?

Yours,

David

Not in my book...True visionaries have been accused of a lot worse!

davidjschenk · 07-03-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daleb

Not in my book...True visionaries have been accused of a lot worse!

Ah--kapisch. I was worried maybe I said something kind of out of line.

Have a happy Fourth!

-David

daleb · 07-03-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Ah--kapisch. I was worried maybe I said something kind of out of line.

Have a happy Fourth!

-David

The same and to everyone!

07-02-2009, 02:36 PM	#46
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,049	__________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

07-02-2009, 09:14 PM	#48
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,049	I do not know if it is true or not, but banning someone because they do not agree to continue to pay to be an "affiliate" or sponsor, sounds like some form of extortion to me. You have been a member for almost 2 years and you make your first post something about this? __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

07-03-2009, 03:01 PM	#51
DTV TiVo Dealer ValueElectronics.com Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Scarsdale, NY Posts: 200	Thanks daleb ^^. I'm hurt and angry but am happy to receive all of the support from the AVS Forum membership who have voiced their feelings. Even though most are very quickly removed by the management just seeing them briefly gives me a warm feeling knowing that my 7 years of active membership with over 4900 helpful posts have built a bond of appreciation and recognition of the general membership. In 2011, we'll see OLED in larger sizes and at price points that won't require a mortgage application approved in advance. I expect we'll see Pioneer back in the video display business with OLED in 2011 along with Sony and Samsung. Also in 2010 and 2011 we'll begin seeing 4k, which is actually 3,840p panels and the beginning of the new standards for HD 3-D on BD content and in flat panels and front projection displays. I touched on this at the closing of my last HD shoot-out and we are working with content providers and CE manufacturers to secure demonstration material for our 2010 high-end HD shoot-out event. Stay tuned, the best is yet to come. -Robert __________________ www.ValueElectronics.com Last edited by DTV TiVo Dealer; 07-03-2009 at 03:09 PM.

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07-02-2009, 08:55 PM	#47
ricwhite What is HD? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1	Nice shootout and results. I heard that DTV Dealer -- Robert Z. -- was lifetime banned from the "other" forum for not renewing his affiliation. Is that true?

07-03-2009, 04:14 PM	#54
DonnyDC High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,174	Id like to see Vizio included. Yeah they may be a lower brand but seeing LG matching Samsung and Sony doing so horrible who knows how these things can go.