VIZIO kicks plasma to the curb, will focus on LCD TVs

Codes20

I have to educate the masses on nearly a daily basis as to the differences between plasma and LCD. People often coming in denouncing plasma as horrid and then end up leaving with one after I talk to them for a period of time. I've even had customers say they came in from Wal-Mart and their salesperson stated that "Plasmas break easier and will only last 2 years."

I see pure idiocy around plasma vs. LCD all of the time. I'm not biased when I sell either. I'll recommend LCD over plasma for some people, and vice versa.

It's a shame plasmas aren't selling like they "should" (used loosely).

rm00k

It says that Vizio has moved into #3 flat panel sales (12.3%) behind Samsung (20%) and Sony (14.2%). It doesn't say where Panasonic is but this could be further evidence for the omletpants prediction.

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newtodef

I cant count how many times someone has told me they would never buy a plasma because they need to be recharged every two years and it costs more than the tv itself. I had two seperate LCD Tv's a philips and then a samsung and I was not happy with them at all and plasma offered me what I needed in a tv. Thats why these forums are so important, there is a wealth of info on here that you just can't beat, sure some of it is bias but thats the nature of the game. I do not believe that LCD is a better display and its kinda gonna suck if it takes over the market, unless of course they get rid of all the inherant problems that plague them. Sure plasma has IR, burn in a more power consumption but thats nothing compared to crappy blacks, backlight bleed, bad off angle viewing, motion blur(in the 60hz models) and the general high cost of a good 120hz display.

Its hard to see those problems going anywhere soon considering how long it took them to get to this point with those problems still rearing their ugly heads. It just seems like a big ass struggle to make them work right, and it seems like the mfg's are just sugar coating turds.

RES4CUE

I went with an LCD 2 years ago becuase it "showed" better in the store. I was shocked when my wife said "lets go get a flat panal" and ran out as fast as I could so she didnt change her mind. We got there and we looked at several plasma's which I liked but she liked the LCD and it was smaller and more expensive. Well I went with the LCD and over the last couple years have saw it's short comings so I went with a Plasma and it is great, night and day difference, BR looked almost twice as IMO!!

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Lee Stewart

There are two seperate charts - one for LCD and one for PDP.

3 main PDP CEM's left. PDP tech is over 20 years old. Still IMO offers the best blacks of all current HDTV's - LCD, RPTV and LCD.

4Cowboys4Life

Power consumption on the new line of Pannys for 2009 are supposed to be much less. How it compares to LCD's will be interesting to learn.

newtodef

Well there ya go, knock one off the plasma cons. I did forget to add reflectivity in bright rooms though.

Lee Stewart

Just tilt the display down about 5 degrees. Volia'! No more reflections.

Codes20

People seem to forget they have these things called "curtains", also known as "drapes" or "shades."

erict

Or sit up higher

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Lee Stewart

Sure - works when you are sitting in a room with zero light source other than the TV itself.

But if your TV is in the living room which is open to the kitchen and you turn on a kitchen light - it will reflect off the display.

Unless of course you tilt the display down.

Lee Stewart

That doesn't work.

newtodef

Yeah mine is in the basement with the only natural light source being an 8x12 window off to the side that faces my neighbors house

PFC5

It is too bad you didn't research more Chris and I am surprised you didn't given your penchant for knowledge.

I can attest even with heavy gaming for hours on the PS3 by my son, we have no trace of burn-in or even the VERY temporary Image Retention doing this. I think coming from an LCD projector that you will not see much of an issue going to an LCD in the black levels issue, which I think you sacrificed for the large FP size back then. But had you bought a plasma now you would have realized how much you have been missing in the black level and over all PQ department since you moved away from CRT.

Read the other posts after your post that others have said are STILL major issues with LCDs and you can see WHY plasmas actually had very good growth this past year as more people were educated about plasma & LCD pros/cons.

Once you take a plasma out of the default torch mode the power consumptions drop a very large amount from the stated max power requirements. The problem is that when cNet and others do power comparisons they use the default mode of the displays to measure power which is unrealistic and hurts plasmas much more in this rating method because of how plasmas use power compared to LCD panels and once you adjust the display the power consumption of plasmas can drop to very close if not even with a same size LCD.

Add that the new 2009 Panasonic NeoPDP panels that are starting to come out within the next month will have over 30% more brightness (110FL whites) with no additional power required due to 5lumens tech they have in them, so one of the major selling points in those ultra bright showrooms that have given LCDs such an edge and sales will be gone. That same 5lumens tech will also allow the same brightness (which is all that is really needed with typical home lighting) as current model panels with over 30% LESS power required. They may use less power by a decent amount than comparably priced LCD panels and only have higher power consumption than the LED models that typically cost about 3x or more of the price for such LCD display.

Panasonic is said to be bringing 10lumens tech to the 2010 panels that are NeoPDP eco panels which will lower black levels further and increase brightness beyond LCDs or lower power even more, so plasma is not standing still in some of the hot selling points all while maintaining overall better PQ when used in average home lighting.

What is LCD mfg doing to resolve the poor black levels (besides charging twice the money for a LED backlit LCD), resolving the poor off center viewing angles (which the LED models still have), the poorer/unnatural motion issues which are still there even with the very expensive 120Hz models, and back light bleeding that comes with the LCD technology? Most of this is not seen in the ultra bright stores, but rear their ugly head in typical home lighting and particularly when you turn the lights down low to watch a good movie. I own two LCDs, one 720p DLP from 2004 (first HDTV), and the 2008 Panasonic plasma and the plasma blows the LCDs out of the water in my home lighting. Even the 720p DLP has overall better PQ compared to my 47" 1080p LCD in the bedroom mostly because of the better black levels and believe it or not, the DLP has BETTER off angle viewing than the LCD.

You can typically get a 50" 1080p plasma for about $1100-1300.00 now and an LCD in the comparable 52" size with 120Hz but WITHOUT LED back lighting costs around $2300.00, so that is a grand more and still has poor black levels. To get comparable black levels, (but still some issues because of the limited number of localized LED arrays) you need to add as much as $1500.00+ more to that 120Hz LCD price to get one of the LED models, so the cost can be as much as TRIPLE what a 50" plasma is just to get the comparable blacks. You still have poor off center viewing PQ, screen smear, unnatural (less film like motion with the 120Hz) still to deal with.

I think Panasonic was VERY smart to improve plasmas where their plasmas didn't need to really be improved much (in brightness under home lighting) to attack LCD's perceived strength in the ultra bright showrooms with these new NeoPDP panels. This showroom brightness factor was the major reason cited by Vizio for pulling out of the plasma business.

I would have no problem having LCD replace plasma WHEN they can resolve the other issues that LCDs still have and get pricing comparable to plasmas in the same size that does not have these issues. Oh, and those LCDs with LED back lighting ALSO have glass screens so they also have the glare issue that plasmas have too still, so really the only issues with getting a plasma in reality are burn-in & Image Retention "fears", which I can attest that even with the 2008 Panasonic models setup properly are a thing of the past.

The smartest thing plasma mfg could do is to get vocal about how little chance of burn-in or IR issues with the current tech if used properly. If those burn-in issues were dispelled and people understood about the brightness issue being a non-issue in home lighting i think many more would choose plasma, as many have been who are doing research this past year.

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Chris Gerhard

You may be right, I might have purchased plasma instead of LCD had I researched more. If LCD outselling plasma is primarily a result of stores promoting the more exensive, more profitable product, indirectly I guess I got caught up too. I didn't purchase based on store displays although like everyone I have seen plenty. I have seen plasma set up properly in homes and like the picture really well. I dismissed plasma without serious consideration because of power usage and my belief that plasma displays will soon be a thing of the past. My LCD display appears to work great so I sure would never consider a return because I made the wrong choice, I have never done that and never will. If it breaks under warranty, I will take a serious look at plasma. I don't mind owning products out of the mainstream so my avoiding plasma without making up my own mind based on the issues is very rare for me.

Vizio dropping out of the plasma business is a direct result of the fact their plasma displays were not competitive in the marketplace and their LCD displays are, the company is third behind Samsung and Sony in LCD display sales in the US.

Do you have a comparison of power cost for plasma vs. LCD?

Chris