your opinions on 2ms response time on LCD?

goemon · 10-10-2008, 11:21 AM

i have never seen an LCD monitor where i didn't notice extreme blur. in the middle of this year i bought a samsung 2ms LCD monitor for PC. even with response time acceleration adjusted, i still notice so much blur that during motion it's like the resolution might as well have just dropped by 400%. however, as i look on the internet i find so many people dont even see problems on 5ms, 8 or even 12ms. i really don't think my eyes are genetically superior. so what's the deal, do over 90% of people on LCD's have below average eye quality or what? i decided i'd get on some forums that attract people who really care about video quality to see if i get better opinions here. i decided to buy a plasma tv for my video games since as of now, LCD's to me are only good for 23 fps movies.

retfar4 · 10-10-2008, 11:36 AM

I agree. I hate that little motion blur on LCD's when watching sports or other fast movie content. I have looked into the new LCDs with the ultra-fast response times and I still see the blur. Plasma for me!

admo · 10-10-2008, 12:04 PM

Now, I've known that LCD's are more suseptable to motion blur. But when viewing some LCD's in BJ's, many of them had the blur we all speak of. It would be like a crystal clear picture, but if the camera quickly panned to follow a soccerball as it was kicked down field, the whole dispaly would become dull as the pixels couldn't keep up with the fast movement. Once the ball was received, it would look great again.

But my LCD (Samsung 32LNA330) is by no means top of the line. In fact, it's a budget tv. Yet it does not exhibit the motion blur that I saw on other models. Action in movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and Spiderman 3 looked great. Action on games (GTA IV and Assassin's Creed) is great.

So it got me thinking, part of it may be that to my eyes, some "blur" to me is acceptable, so I don't really "see" it. Yet, the blur bothered me on other TV's.

Which makes me wonder, could having brightness set too high affect blur?

barr08 · 10-10-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admo

So it got me thinking, part of it may be that to my eyes, some "blur" to me is acceptable, so I don't really "see" it. Yet, the blur bothered me on other TV's.

Which makes me wonder, could having brightness set too high affect blur?

I think with blur it really is a person by person thing. Some people can deal with it, some people can't see anything but. I guess we're lucky we aren't PQ perfectionists

dman76 · 10-10-2008, 01:13 PM

I kind of have the opposite problem. In the store I didnt notice a blur difference between the LCDs and plasmas, but maybe it was hard to tell or maybe I was just more focussed on the picture quality and colors because that was more obvious. I ended up buying an LCD and now that I have it home the blur is bothering me in panning scenes. The more I read, and the more that people seem to say I won't notice that on a plasma, I am leaning towards going back and possibly exchanging it for a plasma. I figure for the cost of these things, I shouldnt get dizzy from watching them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by admo

Now, I've known that LCD's are more suseptable to motion blur. But when viewing some LCD's in BJ's, many of them had the blur we all speak of. It would be like a crystal clear picture, but if the camera quickly panned to follow a soccerball as it was kicked down field, the whole dispaly would become dull as the pixels couldn't keep up with the fast movement. Once the ball was received, it would look great again.

But my LCD (Samsung 32LNA330) is by no means top of the line. In fact, it's a budget tv. Yet it does not exhibit the motion blur that I saw on other models. Action in movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and Spiderman 3 looked great. Action on games (GTA IV and Assassin's Creed) is great.

So it got me thinking, part of it may be that to my eyes, some "blur" to me is acceptable, so I don't really "see" it. Yet, the blur bothered me on other TV's.

Which makes me wonder, could having brightness set too high affect blur?

goemon · 10-10-2008, 01:50 PM

dman, if things seem hard to follow when the camera pans, i really dont think it's the lcd. most things are recorded at about 23 fps. i cant tell a difference between a movie played on an LCD or anything else, i can only tell the difference among games. and Grand Theft Auto 4 wouldnt be a good example either, that game runs at around 30 fps most of the time. to really see the difference between LCD and the rest, you gotta play a game that runs at 60 fps (frames per second), or happen to have a movie or show recorded at over 23 fps. it appears to me that on DVD movies, the bonus features that have deleted scenes were recorded at a faster camera speed, the motion just seems smoother,but maybe it's something else.

dman76 · 10-10-2008, 03:35 PM

Goemon, don't tv shows record at 30fps and movies at 24fps? And didnt you say you see motion blur on LCDs? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying you dont see any difference on LCDs or plasma?

**PFC5** · 10-10-2008, 05:22 PM

What you see in the bright stores and what you see at home can be entirely different. Stores' lighting definitely masks the poorer black levels and could also mask the motion blur also.

Plasmas are so much faster still compared to LCDs but no question LCDs are getting better with the response times. Some people are more sensitive to this motion blur, so for some they really do not see much difference in stores under the lighting used in the store, but CAN see it at home.

Joe Las Vegas · 10-10-2008, 11:55 PM

2ms is nice but will it make that much of a difference compared to 8ms?

I have 8ms and no motion blur to report.

10-10-2008, 11:21 AM	#1
goemon What is HD? Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2	your opinions on 2ms response time on LCD? i have never seen an LCD monitor where i didn't notice extreme blur. in the middle of this year i bought a samsung 2ms LCD monitor for PC. even with response time acceleration adjusted, i still notice so much blur that during motion it's like the resolution might as well have just dropped by 400%. however, as i look on the internet i find so many people dont even see problems on 5ms, 8 or even 12ms. i really don't think my eyes are genetically superior. so what's the deal, do over 90% of people on LCD's have below average eye quality or what? i decided i'd get on some forums that attract people who really care about video quality to see if i get better opinions here. i decided to buy a plasma tv for my video games since as of now, LCD's to me are only good for 23 fps movies.

10-10-2008, 11:36 AM	#2
retfar4 How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 20	Agree I agree. I hate that little motion blur on LCD's when watching sports or other fast movie content. I have looked into the new LCDs with the ultra-fast response times and I still see the blur. Plasma for me! __________________ Panasonic 42pz77u Onkyo 605 PS3, 360 and Wii Def Tech ProCinema 800

10-10-2008, 05:22 PM	#8
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,057	What you see in the bright stores and what you see at home can be entirely different. Stores' lighting definitely masks the poorer black levels and could also mask the motion blur also. Plasmas are so much faster still compared to LCDs but no question LCDs are getting better with the response times. Some people are more sensitive to this motion blur, so for some they really do not see much difference in stores under the lighting used in the store, but CAN see it at home. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

10-10-2008, 11:55 PM	#9
Joe Las Vegas LCD is the only way Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Las Vegas Age: 40 Posts: 1,411	2ms is nice but will it make that much of a difference compared to 8ms? I have 8ms and no motion blur to report. __________________ MY 42" 1080p LCD TV / 360 (9-07) / PS3 slim (9-09) / 7.1 SETUP Check out my ride

Similar Threads to your opinions on 2ms response time on LCD?
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
I'm Leaving My Decision Up To You Guys!! Help Needed On Sony & Philips 32"!	hdtv_dude11	Flat-Panel TVs	14	12-09-2007 07:42 AM
Response time	a bell	Flat-Panel TVs	3	05-13-2007 11:36 PM
Opinions on these LCD HDTVs	dubc35	Flat-Panel TVs	11	04-13-2007 12:23 PM
is 8ms response time sufficient...	Zazz	Flat-Panel TVs	14	12-27-2006 11:56 PM
LCD deterioration over time	jeflet	Rear-Projection TVs	4	01-21-2005 06:02 PM

10-10-2008, 12:04 PM	#3
admo High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 37 Posts: 758	Now, I've known that LCD's are more suseptable to motion blur. But when viewing some LCD's in BJ's, many of them had the blur we all speak of. It would be like a crystal clear picture, but if the camera quickly panned to follow a soccerball as it was kicked down field, the whole dispaly would become dull as the pixels couldn't keep up with the fast movement. Once the ball was received, it would look great again. But my LCD (Samsung 32LNA330) is by no means top of the line. In fact, it's a budget tv. Yet it does not exhibit the motion blur that I saw on other models. Action in movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and Spiderman 3 looked great. Action on games (GTA IV and Assassin's Creed) is great. So it got me thinking, part of it may be that to my eyes, some "blur" to me is acceptable, so I don't really "see" it. Yet, the blur bothered me on other TV's. Which makes me wonder, could having brightness set too high affect blur?

10-10-2008, 01:50 PM	#6
goemon What is HD? Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2	dman, if things seem hard to follow when the camera pans, i really dont think it's the lcd. most things are recorded at about 23 fps. i cant tell a difference between a movie played on an LCD or anything else, i can only tell the difference among games. and Grand Theft Auto 4 wouldnt be a good example either, that game runs at around 30 fps most of the time. to really see the difference between LCD and the rest, you gotta play a game that runs at 60 fps (frames per second), or happen to have a movie or show recorded at over 23 fps. it appears to me that on DVD movies, the bonus features that have deleted scenes were recorded at a faster camera speed, the motion just seems smoother,but maybe it's something else.

10-10-2008, 03:35 PM	#7
dman76 How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 21	Goemon, don't tv shows record at 30fps and movies at 24fps? And didnt you say you see motion blur on LCDs? I am not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying you dont see any difference on LCDs or plasma?