Response time (ms) or refresh rate (hz) more important for 360 games?

spitcodfry · 09-22-2008, 07:35 PM

I'm hearing conflicting things about what's more important in an LCD in terms of reducing/eliminating judder and/or blurring/smearing while playing console (360/PS3) games. I want some opinions as to whether it's response time (ms) or refresh rate (hz). I've heard it's good to have the lowest response time the better. My current is 6 ms with a 60 hz refresh rate. I'm seeing noticeable smear/judder when panning the camera left or right. Image looks great when it's straight-on but blurs like I'm drunk when looking around. I want to know what kind of ms and hz to look for in a new LCD. I've heard 120 hz is best and 5 ms is good, but really don't know what to think at this point. I originally thought 6 ms and 60 hz were good, but now don't know. I wish there was a way to tweak my unit to remove the judder but no such luck so far. Any and all suggestions, tips, and help mucho appreciated.

BeeF · 09-22-2008, 08:07 PM

Get a plasma, you will see no motion blur or judder on it. Plasmas have close to no response time.

spitcodfry · 09-22-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeF

Get a plasma, you will see no motion blur or judder on it. Plasmas have close to no response time.

I was thinking of swapping my Samsung 32" LCD for a Vizio 32" Plasma, but am still a bit hesitant because of the dimmer display. I do so like the brightness of the LCDs.

Loves2Watch · 09-22-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spitcodfry

I was thinking of swapping my Samsung 32" LCD for a Vizio 32" Plasma, but am still a bit hesitant because of the dimmer display. I do so like the brightness of the LCDs.

Once you get it home you will love the plasma and it WILL have enough brightness. That is unless you have high pressure sodium or mercury vapor lights in your house.

BeeF · 09-23-2008, 01:13 PM

I would sacrifice brightness for colors and clarity on a plasma.

Loves2Watch · 09-23-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeF

I would sacrifice brightness for colors and clarity on a plasma.

But there is no need to sacrifice brightness on a plasma because they are plenty bright enough...

BeeF · 09-23-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

But there is no need to sacrifice brightness on a plasma because they are plenty bright enough...

Yeah, I would agree. I was just making point.

PFC5 · 09-23-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

Once you get it home you will love the plasma and it WILL have enough brightness. That is unless you have high pressure sodium or mercury vapor lights in your house.

I think because of these ultra bright lights used in stores people think the LCDs are much brighter, and they are to some extent, but they are brighter than they would ever need to be in home with normal lighting. I think the ultra bright stores that play into this strength of LCDs give people a false impression of just how bright modern plasmas are now.

This is why I tell people to try to compare them in a store where they have dimmer room lighting to compare them properly and fairly.

I play the PS3 with my panny plasma and it is amazing how much better COD4 is with the plasma over an LCD. better shadow detail without washing out the colors, and on a shoot 'em up game the much faster plasma display is almost much better and allows me to get better scores when shadow detail and screen speed really count.

BeeF · 09-23-2008, 05:05 PM

The only place where I have seen fair tv lighting is and American Furniture Warehouse showroom. They had a small room in the basement filled with tvs and chairs to sit in with very dim lights. Unfortunately they only carry LG's so I didnt really bother looking around at it much.

spitcodfry · 09-23-2008, 07:30 PM

Now I'm considering the 32 " super-cheapo Vizio plasma from Wal Mart. It seems to be getting fair enough reviews but I'm concerned about its IR from burn-in. I'm somewhat OCD so I can see myself thinking its IR is the new bane of my existence (the way I think my sammy's judder is now). I hear if you use a break-in disc that you download and play it for somewhere in excess of 100 hours or so it shouldn't have much IR. IR doesn't actually permanently stay on a plasma does it? I'd hate to see that happen to a new unit.

My other worries are the Plasma won't be that reliable in the long run. It is cheap parts after all, and a brand that hasn't been around long enough to provide stats on how many sets get returned/need repairs. I want to take a chance on it but feel like I'm starting to wear my wal mart return policy thin (not that I feel the company is going to take a hit or anything). I'd hate to exercise it on a set that's going to break down on me in under a year. I'm almost considering going back to my lowly SD set until I can afford a higher-end plasma/LCD model.

For those wondering I'm looking at the Vizio plasma VP322.

BGrutter · 09-23-2008, 08:20 PM

I have had the VP322 for about a week and a half. So far, I like it a lot for normal TV viewing. As to your question about IR, it is not permanent. You can think of it as basically temporary "burn in". However, depending on how long you have a particular static image and what colors the image is composed of, it can take varying amounts of time for the IR to resolve (up to many minutes). The annoying part for me is that I don't like to view any content in an aspect ratio other than that in which it is broadcast or recorded (TV or from a disc). This leads me to have IR lines on either the sides or top and bottom of the screen where the black bars were. I suppose I'm real OCD. That is my main concern and my primary reason for continueing to look for a different 32" LCD. However, I should say that I really like the TV; just don't want to have any regrets.

spitcodfry · 09-23-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGrutter

I have had the VP322 for about a week and a half. So far, I like it a lot for normal TV viewing. As to your question about IR, it is not permanent. You can think of it as basically temporary "burn in". However, depending on how long you have a particular static image and what colors the image is composed of, it can take varying amounts of time for the IR to resolve (up to many minutes). The annoying part for me is that I don't like to view any content in an aspect ratio other than that in which it is broadcast or recorded (TV or from a disc). This leads me to have IR lines on either the sides or top and bottom of the screen where the black bars were. I suppose I'm real OCD. That is my main concern and my primary reason for continueing to look for a different 32" LCD. However, I should say that I really like the TV; just don't want to have any regrets.

Yeah, exactly my issue: don't want no regrets. I've already had three of them so far lol. First a Philips 32 LCD, then a Sharp 32 LCD, and now the Sammy. I had an older gen 32 Sammy that I got a good refurb deal online for ($600); it was typically at least twice that, and it certainly showed. No judder problems. Wal Mart models are definitely Wal Mart models.

So you haven't tried any console systems on your VP 322?

BeeF · 09-23-2008, 09:33 PM

I wouldn't really consider the VP322 a "cheap" TV. Yes it is cheaper than other TV's but its not a "cheap" set. I think for your needs it will do quite nice. And Vizio is becoming a pretty respectable company, I have a Vizio LCD and love it. From what I've heard this TV does well with games. I don't think you'll have any regrets but I cant say that with certainty things happen that no one can predict.

spitcodfry · 09-23-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeF

I wouldn't really consider the VP322 a "cheap" TV. Yes it is cheaper than other TV's but its not a "cheap" set. I think for your needs it will do quite nice. And Vizio is becoming a pretty respectable company, I have a Vizio LCD and love it. From what I've heard this TV does well with games. I don't think you'll have any regrets but I cant say that with certainty things happen that no one can predict.

Do you use it for games? And if so, do you experience any judder or blurring?

Bigloww · 09-23-2008, 09:46 PM

I can't speak for the Vizio 1st hand but as far as gamming on a plasma in general goes.. All I can say is

. I have been gaming with my 360, PC and PS2 on my HP plasma (rebagged Panasonic 50PX500U) for about 3 years now and it is great. I definately like it better vs my LCD.. Awesome gaming experience.

09-22-2008, 07:35 PM	#1
spitcodfry How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	Response time (ms) or refresh rate (hz) more important for 360 games? I'm hearing conflicting things about what's more important in an LCD in terms of reducing/eliminating judder and/or blurring/smearing while playing console (360/PS3) games. I want some opinions as to whether it's response time (ms) or refresh rate (hz). I've heard it's good to have the lowest response time the better. My current is 6 ms with a 60 hz refresh rate. I'm seeing noticeable smear/judder when panning the camera left or right. Image looks great when it's straight-on but blurs like I'm drunk when looking around. I want to know what kind of ms and hz to look for in a new LCD. I've heard 120 hz is best and 5 ms is good, but really don't know what to think at this point. I originally thought 6 ms and 60 hz were good, but now don't know. I wish there was a way to tweak my unit to remove the judder but no such luck so far. Any and all suggestions, tips, and help mucho appreciated.

09-23-2008, 09:46 PM	#15
Bigloww "Shitter was Full" Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In a van, down by the river. Posts: 8,319	I can't speak for the Vizio 1st hand but as far as gamming on a plasma in general goes.. All I can say is . I have been gaming with my 360, PC and PS2 on my HP plasma (rebagged Panasonic 50PX500U) for about 3 years now and it is great. I definately like it better vs my LCD.. Awesome gaming experience. __________________ Commit to the Indian.. "I don't get drunk, I get awesome"..

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09-22-2008, 08:07 PM	#2
BeeF High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,245	Get a plasma, you will see no motion blur or judder on it. Plasmas have close to no response time.

09-23-2008, 01:13 PM	#5
BeeF High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,245	I would sacrifice brightness for colors and clarity on a plasma.

09-23-2008, 05:05 PM	#9
BeeF High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,245	The only place where I have seen fair tv lighting is and American Furniture Warehouse showroom. They had a small room in the basement filled with tvs and chairs to sit in with very dim lights. Unfortunately they only carry LG's so I didnt really bother looking around at it much.

09-23-2008, 07:30 PM	#10
spitcodfry How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 23	Now I'm considering the 32 " super-cheapo Vizio plasma from Wal Mart. It seems to be getting fair enough reviews but I'm concerned about its IR from burn-in. I'm somewhat OCD so I can see myself thinking its IR is the new bane of my existence (the way I think my sammy's judder is now). I hear if you use a break-in disc that you download and play it for somewhere in excess of 100 hours or so it shouldn't have much IR. IR doesn't actually permanently stay on a plasma does it? I'd hate to see that happen to a new unit. My other worries are the Plasma won't be that reliable in the long run. It is cheap parts after all, and a brand that hasn't been around long enough to provide stats on how many sets get returned/need repairs. I want to take a chance on it but feel like I'm starting to wear my wal mart return policy thin (not that I feel the company is going to take a hit or anything). I'd hate to exercise it on a set that's going to break down on me in under a year. I'm almost considering going back to my lowly SD set until I can afford a higher-end plasma/LCD model. For those wondering I'm looking at the Vizio plasma VP322.

09-23-2008, 08:20 PM	#11
BGrutter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 257	I have had the VP322 for about a week and a half. So far, I like it a lot for normal TV viewing. As to your question about IR, it is not permanent. You can think of it as basically temporary "burn in". However, depending on how long you have a particular static image and what colors the image is composed of, it can take varying amounts of time for the IR to resolve (up to many minutes). The annoying part for me is that I don't like to view any content in an aspect ratio other than that in which it is broadcast or recorded (TV or from a disc). This leads me to have IR lines on either the sides or top and bottom of the screen where the black bars were. I suppose I'm real OCD. That is my main concern and my primary reason for continueing to look for a different 32" LCD. However, I should say that I really like the TV; just don't want to have any regrets.

09-23-2008, 09:33 PM	#13
BeeF High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,245	I wouldn't really consider the VP322 a "cheap" TV. Yes it is cheaper than other TV's but its not a "cheap" set. I think for your needs it will do quite nice. And Vizio is becoming a pretty respectable company, I have a Vizio LCD and love it. From what I've heard this TV does well with games. I don't think you'll have any regrets but I cant say that with certainty things happen that no one can predict.