Flat panel HDTV on a low budget

KosmoKramer

So I've been obsessed with getting HDTV, but restricted to doing it on a budget. I've been doing lots of online as well as instore research, but would like others to chime in with their own experience. By the way the prices and sizes that I'm shopping for are $800-1500 for 30" flat panel HDTV. I'm only talking about LCD HDTV compatible tv's. I'm looking for picture quality, not so much sound, as I have a pretty decent dolby DTS system already. Please don't just discount cheap monitors and say put out the cash and get a $3-5k TV, many of us can't afford it. I also want a flat panel as I don't have that much room, and don't want to move a 150lb CRT or 300lb projection TV. I'm the kind of viewer that appreciates good picture quality enough to really want HD, but I'm no cazy videophile. In any case, here we go:

First off, I've discovered the most modest HDTV complatible monitors don't have their own HD tuners. HD directv recievers cost about $300 new, but I've found some decently rated models (with HDMI or DVI-D output) selling on ebay for about $100-150. I intend to use one of those for at least a bridge until I can upgrade. Ok, so tuner/reciever is not that huge of an issue anymore, at least for me...I'm using directv and it's about $11 extra a month for HD (btw its an extra $1k for hd dvr which I'm passing on). I intend to upgrade in stages.

The next thing that I am concerned about is video input. Inexpensive models have composite input only, which is of course analog. (I won't argue the quality of composite [better color] vs digital input [better sharpness] as many swear by one or the other) However, I want digital input compatibility because of possible issues with HDCP (High bandwidth Digital Content Protection). The short story is if Hollywood has its way, units without HDCP (i.e analog or DVI without HDCP) may only be able to display down res'd content. Google HDCP for a more detailed explanation of this. Many budget HDTV units have DVI-I inputs which make these compatible as computer monitors as well as HDTV monitors. I want to warn people out there that if it's not advertised as DVI with HDCP (many are not), it probably isn't HDCP compatible!

Resolution: Many economy HDTV's are 1270 X 768, which are great for computer monitors, and still compatible for HDTV's (which at 16:9 are 1366 X 768). The only issue with using these as HDTV's are that there will be either some distortion if you strech the picture to fit, or there will be little thin black bars. I personally don't have a problem with THIN black bars, but this is still an issue to some.

Next, response time is an issue. The low cost models I've checked out have 20-25 ms response times, which some may say, might result in some shadowing during faster action. I have not noticed this much, however, I also haven't seen anything but what stores have been playing on their monitors, usually HD news or HD Discover channel. My next step will be to bring in my own DVD movie with lots of colors and action and see if they'll play it for me.

Finally, I've noticed many differing views, and welcome them all on specific systems. However, I would like more first hand experiences reported, hence the reason for the post. Please reply with some input on the model's you've tested out, the set up, etc. Please include if you have your set up connected through HD satellite, as I have also read in one post that because of HDCP, the person did not get a signal through their non HDCP DVI (but they did get HD resolution through component).

Here are some of my picks for further investigation so far:

Syntax Olevia LT30HV LCD with DVI-I HDCP - $1100 from Tigerdirect.com, also sold at Microcenter I believe. I have not seen this in person. Very good informative tech and product info support from what I hear. Its at the top of my list to check out.

Powerspec 30 inch LCD with DVI-I - $800 from Microcenter after $100 rebate. I have seen this, and it is very nice. Colors are bright, image is clear, the unit is only 32 lbs, and I like powerspec (owned by microcenter) as a brand too. However, the model I saw was only hooked up through component. The cust serv reps didn't know if the DVI-I had HDCP, and the manager didn't allow the reps to move the TV to plug the HD satellite through DVI (very bad customer service, I may not go back). Even a call to Microcenter's product information number couldn't give me answers. I will stay away from this until I find out for sure that it has HDCP and until I get some better service.

Westinghouse LTV-30W2: From $1100 online to $1400 instore. I saw this unit in Bestbuy. Video hooked up using regular cable/antenna wire looked horrible. When they hooked it up through component, the unit didn't work (it was a returned open box item). I hope that it was an isolated case. However, the picture on the 32" model which was connected through component looked really nice. Great colors, and decent sharpness. I will hold out on this brand until I hear more about the quality of build.

Hyundai HQL320WR: 32" tv for $1200 after $100 mail in rebate from tigerdirect. True HDTV ratio. Has everything EXCEPT digital input. So sad. Won't get this unless I find out HDCP restrictions won't down res non HDCP signals. Also I have not seen the picture on this in person either.

So there it is, please add to this list of any no name TV's that you have had experience with, even if they were not up to par, so we know to stay away from them. All opinions appreciated. Thanks.

KosmoKramer

vash0523

Id highly suggest the Syntax Olevia over any of those. Google it and read some reviews. Its received wonderful ratings. It makes a great TV and good computer moniter also. The PowerSpec is known to get white blotches in the corners( i dont know the more technical term for this) which is why it is so cheap I believe. Not having a digital input is a serious downside. Others can give you more information on it, you seem to know a good bit already. I have been thoroughly unimpressed with every Westinghouse product I've seen. They look TRUELY horrible on SD content and decent on HD content, but the colors seem flat and the picture is grainy on the multiple sets Ive seen at various stores. So +1 to the vote for the Syntax Olevia.

KosmoKramer

Thanks for the reply vash0523. I'll have to go in and take a closer look at the Olevia which I haven't seen in person yet.

By the way, I just got a call from the powerspec manufacturer and they tell me that the powerspec 30" is HDCP compatible. However, I have to investigate vash0523's info on the problems with that monitor.

After reading some new reviews, I am adding Viewsonic's N3000W 30" monitor to my line up of cheap TV's to be further investigated. Here's a roundup review from PCworld: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...,119030,00.asp I've found it online at for about $1325 shipped to me, base price about $1300 from reputable dealers.

Please add more input, views, suggestions, opinions. Thanks.

Rogerman

KosmoKramer:
A TV is something you're going to keep for 10-15 years. I'd say, simply: Go for Sharp. Perhaps the latest LC-26D5U for around $1500 or the 32" of the same model for around $2000. Both mail order prices. You could shop on cnet.com for the best prices. Why get a mediocre set and later regret it??? Check out sharpusa.com and go to their lineup of LCDs.
Roger

KosmoKramer

Roger, great point. I actually just stopped by one of the local stores today to check out the Olevia. It looked great...until I looked at the sharp. Dang it, I told myself I wouldn't do that. However, yes, I have realized this is something that I will keep for a while. Its near the top end of what I am willing to spend, but I think it is worth it. Brand name isn't everything to me, but the picture quality did it for me. I'm gonna see if I can find a viewsonic dealer though and see if I can check those out, as I noted before, I like trust their product line.

By the way, the guy at hhgreg said Sony gets their LCD's from Sharp. Is this true? Whats the difference between the two brands then? Does sony use a different processor? In any case, I am still looking for HDTV, on a budget...and I think I maybe able to do this with sharp. The quest continues...

RSawdey

There's a problem with your pixel refresh numbers of 20-25 ms... 720p has a refresh rate of 60 frames per second which means 1000/60 = 16 ms (or less) is required to produce 60 fps. A display with a refresh of 20-25 ms couldn't keep up, and would have to drop half the frames or something... fast refresh rates are now in the 12 - 8 ms range...

The ATSC standard is 1280 x 720, although 1366 x 768 (WXGA) is a common panel...

Small tabletop RPTV, like the DLPs, weight a WHOLE lot less than 300 pounds... the 43" is only about 65 pounds... my older 50" is 89.

KosmoKramer

Hi, thanks for the input with the response times, I didn't know that 24 ms wouldn't keep up. However, in the store, I thought they looked really nice, and they were playing HD ESPN.
Here's an update to my quest for HDTV on the cheap after another visit to microcenter:

I found that the Olevia and Powerspec 30" models were pretty comparable, with the Olevia having a small edge over picture quality. The customer service rep told me that the Powerspec 30" was built mainly as a computer monitor, but is HDTV compatible. These TV's looked nice by themselves, and were decent value for the money. However, compared to the Olevia 37" (I don't know exactly how much it was, but I think a little over $1700, maybe $1800, definately less than $2 though), which must have a better processor, as the difference in contrast, color, and overall image were very apparent. The Olevia 37" looked awesome, and comparable to the Sharp that was there.

From the customer service rep, I learned that the Winbook/Powerspec realized that most people were buying the 30" model for HDTV, so they created the newer 32" model, which works much better as an HDTV monitor. It has native 16:9 aspect ratio, better processor which shows in the nicer colors, contrast, and great response time (10ms compared to 24ms on the 30"). I thought the color and contrast (550:1 for 32") were better than the 30" counterpart, despite published specs (600:1 for 30"). I felt the skin tones were truer and the color was much fuller. The published specs online say that this unit has a DVI-I input, however, in store they said that it has a DVI-D input and is HDCP compatible. The 32 inch was about $200 more than the 30" model after rebates and such, but I think its well worth it for the better picture quality.

Now to put the "better quality picture" in perspective, I would have to say the picture quality for the 30" inch models were decent in all aspects and if viewed by themselves, you would think, hey, pretty nice. However, when viewing right next to the Sharp, you'd see a large gap in picture quality. Sharp was excellent with deep blacks, great fast motion, awesome colors, and crisp picture. If on a 1 to 10 relative scale, the 30" models were a 1 (decent) and the Sharp was a 10 (excellent), then the Olevia 37" would be a 8.5 or 9, and the Winbook 32" would be a 7. This is from my own non-videophile but definately appreciate HDTV point of view. I hope this makes sense.

The Powerspec 32" was $1200 with 2-$100 rebates for a total price of $1k. I am definately looking more closely at this before deciding.

Spaankii

Try and get a look at the Dell 2405FPW 24" LCD. I've been living with one for the past month and the screen has been superb for watching DVD movies using a Samsung HD-DVD player on the DVI port. HDTV broadcasts were similarly impressive using a HUMAX STB and beyond that it was a brilliant computer monitor.

This screen has a resolution of 1920 x 1200 and very good response times. Viewing angles are good for the most part.

The key issue I have is that the unit has only 1 DVI port. In all cases the DVI signal was clearly superior to composite or component.

You will need to buy the tuner, but the screen is very cheap (~$1400 AU) in comparison to all LCD TV's out there. I think it is well worth considering if your priorities include low cost for your HDTV setup.

myers830

Between the walking calculator and the person saying that you will own this set for 10-15 years, may I remind you that TVs will soon become like computersor cars...remember how we all thought that we would buy a new computer and it would be good for 10 years. The truth of the matter is that we all have old computers lying around that still work, but are useless otherwise. TVs are going that way, so why pay tons of money for any new TV is my point. Most likely you will replace anything you buy today with a new set inside 5 years not because its gone bad on you, but because newer formats will dictate your decision. I will never subscribe to the guys who can justify a $3-6k or more TV purchase because they are just kidding themselves. If they are willing to get a new set for those kind of prices for a lousy 10-15 HD channels currently, just imagine how the pocket books will open so easily when we have thousands of HD channels and cheaper TVs that will be 1080p and well beyond. The argument holds no water. When you buy a TV, think in terms of replacing that investment every 5 years or less, regardless. Then the numbers don't look so hot, so they..!..

Rogerman

I have a 3 year old Mitsubishi 55" rear-proj TV, a Platinum Plus 88587. $3200 then. I have no regrets....with the Time-Warner 8300HD box, just with component inputs, the picture from the HD channels is superb!! So for the next 5 years that I anticipate, I won't be looking for another TV....
Roger
p.s. Myers, I finally went with the Sharp LC-32D5U for my daughter. Fantastic TV!!

RSawdey

If you check the specs on the Syntax site, the 37" panel has much better specs & is a newer design... http://www.syntaxgroups.com

Tweaking the color & contrast settings may improve things once you're at home in a more reasonable viewing environment... use DVE or Avia...

Carter

Try looking at the Mitsubishi LCD flat panel. It's on sale a lot right now and scores better any time it is compared to any other flat panel. The sale price makes it competitive. Also Mitsubishi is offering until June no downpayment no interest for 2 years. I bought one after comparing it myself to every other popular lcd. It's better. See review at PCWorld editor's choice. I got mine on sale at RC Willey at cost for open box. Nothing beats it in flat panel lcd in any test where it was included. It also has better color controls, dvi, and can be used as a computer monitor.

drfoobar

The Dell DVI is not HDCP compliant!!!!! This really foiled my plans of using the Del as a true HDTV (1080i, 1080p). I was going to use Directv HD H20 receiver, however it enforces Hdcp

Netpeace

I'm trying to decide between the Proview 32" RX-326 LCD HDTV at Costco for $950 and one of the 32" Olevia TV's. The specs of the RX-326 screen look pretty good, with 1366x768 resolution, 800:1 Contrast Ratio, and <16ms Response Time. Another page shows different specs, saying it has a 8ms response time, but 16ms sounds more accurate.

You you get the 32" Olevia instead of the Proview ? Which 32" Olevia ?

* With the Proview, Costco takes it back at anytime.

* The Olevia has a one year IN HOME warranty

* One can get a Mack in home warranty for $100 which gives a FOUR year total coverage.

I was told to avoid Olevia's panels unless they are made by LG. Some of their panels are by ?GUO, and they have only 90 degrees of viewing. Outside that, the blacks become milky purple.

I saw that Proview today and it looked just fine.

CaptinCrunch

Kosmo,

The best thing I can subjust is to shop your local BB, CC, and Costco and look for the best product at the best price. Like me I had a small budget to work with under $2300, and I like you have done more research than really nesseary on products of intrest. I was just at CC last night and saw that they have several 32" LCD's marked down again for the late X-mas shopper under $1700. http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/ is a good place to check and find some real good info on why not to buy off brand LCD's. Hope this helps, good luck!!