Plasma screen resolution question

longhornato

I've been a lurker on this site for a while, and have checked past threads for an answer to my display resolution question, but didn't see any that specifically addressed my question.

I am in the market for a second HDTV set for the bedroom and want a 42" flat panel. I currently have a 60" Sony rear-projection LCD in my living room, so I'm somewhat familiar with LCD technology.

I have been leaning towards plasma because we will mostly use the set at night (so glare isn't an issue), and for a variety of TV shows (50% non-HD broadcasts), movies (standard DVD), and some sports.

The set I am looking at is an LG 42PC5D b/c I can get a great deal on TV, and was very impressed with the set in the store. However, the resolution is 1024x768 (like most older 42" plasmas), and I have an HD cable box through Comcast on my Sony and will use the same box on the plasma. I don't have any issues with the Sony converting the signal from the cable box, but I'm wondering whether I will notice any major differences with the plasma resolution. I am particularly concerned about the plasma "cutting off" the score tickers at the top and bottom of football broadcasts, and how it will look displaying non-HD programming.

I am contemplating either spending an extra $100 to get a 1366x768 LCD, or $300-400 more to get a full 1080p LCD or Plasma (although I haven't found as many 42" plasmas at that higher resolution). I don't anticipate buying a 1080p video game system or high-def DVD for that TV, and from everything I've read 1080i will be the standard for cable HDTV broadcasts for a few more years.

Basically, what are the consensus opinions (or facts) around here regarding 1080i HDTV broadcasts displayed on 720p (1024x768), 720p (1366x768), and 1080p LCD and Plasma sets?

Thanks in advance,
Ben

Scottnot

The short answer - they all look great!

On a 42" set, unless you plan to sit 3-4' from the sceen you won't see the difference.

PFC5

LCD panels do no where near as good with black levels plasmas do. For a bedroom, this becomes more important because most viewing would likely be at night with the lights off or dimmed.

You do not notice this black level issue with LCD panels in the very bright stores but you will notice it in a dark bedroom. This is something to keep in mind.

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mystic7

I have a plasma and have no intentions of buying an LCD, even as a second set, but that's good to know. Thanks PFC5

BamaPanda

I have last years version of that set, and the 07 model is better. Really love mine.
The ratio adjustments on that set are really good, so you will be able to adjust the screen for anything you are watching.
The blacks and the CR you will get should blow away any LCD. Only ones that might get close will be way up in $$.
Unless you plan to set right up under the set, 720P is perfect.
Have fun.

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Scottnot

Three questions:

1) What in the world are you talking about????

2) Do you even know what "black level" is???

3) Can you explain or cite some reliable source as to why improved black level would make any difference in a darker room??

BamaPanda

PDP has more CR than LCD. This means there is more of a spread between the blackest blacks to the whites on a PDP than on an LCD.
Not sure how this relates to the comment you are responding to, but I do know that the 32" Viz I bought for the bedroom (dimly lit) shows this fault up. If I get the blacks right - the PQ is dim. If I brighten it up, the blacks are anything but.

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Scottnot

I think I'm pretty well informed in this are; my point it that the poster was blowing smoke.

As a general rule, that is correct, but with current models, not always.

As in Contrast Ratio = White Luminance/Black Luminance; I understand this.

Really can't follow the logic here.

If you get the Blacks right, as in properly calibrate the brightness control (black level). That's fine.

Then, if the picture is dim, simply turn up the contrast control (white level) a bit.
It will not diminish the black level at all but it will brighten the picture.

Maybe you don't properly understand the function of these two controls and are adjusting the wrong one for the given condition.

1080PsF

PFC5 is totally correct in a dark room the blacks look milky because they aren’t truly black, in a bright room it’s harder to see.

And I can answer yes I do know what a black level is (aka pedestal or set-up). In NTSC it’s 7.5IRE or in digital it’s 0mV. The proper way to set the black level is by using pluge. The brightness is turned up until the darkest stripe of pluge is barely visible.

Scottnot

If that's what you want to believe, ok.
Still waiting to hear/read this from some reliable source.

0IRE corresponds to 0 voltage, or 0mV if you wish.
Actually, in digital, it's 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0. No voltages, just ones and zeros.

Correct . . . pretty much. Since your instructions seems to assume a pulge using two stripes, I would suggest adjusting brightness until the darker of the stripes matches "screen black" (becomes invisible) and the other stripe remains barely visible. On most plasmas and LCDs, this will result in a black luminance in the range of 0.4 to 0.8 cd/m^2 which is pretty darn black even in the dimmest of rooms - certainly isn't going to be "milky" by any stretch of the imagination.

BobY

I'm in the camp that blacks on LCD's in a dark room just aren't black (except on the best, most expensive sets, where they are black, but only when viewed head on). Plasma is obviously better.

I also urge you to compare a 1024 x 768 set with your current display (unless your current display is also 1024 x 768).

Despite the manufacturers marketing hoo-hah, 1024 x 768 is not HD. It is only 80% of the resolution of a 720p signal and only about one-third the resolution of a 1080i/p signal.

In addition, that arrangement of pixels in a widescreen display means the pixels are rectangular, rather than square as they are with 1280 x 720, 1366 x 768 or 1920 x 1080 displays and 720p or 1080i/p signals. This inevitably leads to scaling errors and artifacts.

Will it look bad? No.

Will it look as sharp and detailed on HD signals as a 1366 x 768 or 1920 x 1080 display? No.

Only you can decide if the difference is worth the extra price.

1080PsF

Think whatever you want.


No it's not 0IRE that is know as baseline and black is at 7.5IRE in NTSC and that is equal to 53mV above baseline in NTSC. The video signal is 1 volt peak to peak and in NTSC active video gets 714mV and sync gets 286mV. That's not very easy to read on a scope so IRE units were invented and each IRE is equal to 7.14mV. So video is 100IRE and sync is 40IRE. So 7.14 * 7.5 = 53.55mV. Now in digital it's different 0mV equals 64bits in a 10-bit system like almost everything I use at work. So in binary it would be 00 0100 0000.



It has been a long time since I've looked at the levels of pluge but if I'm not mistaken they are 3.5IRE, 7.5IRE, and 10IRE and you would be looking for the 3.5IRE stripe.

Scottnot

Damn! I wish you would stop splitting that hair!!!!

1024 x 768 IS "approximately twice that" of 720 x 480 and it has "a picture aspect ratio (H × V) of 16:9". So, it's HD.

Please!

Scottnot

Thats not how most (some will offer 10 bit color) digital televisions work. Each color (R/G/B) consists of 8 bits (that's why there are 256 shades of gray). Now, the bits are either on or off; doesn't matter what voltages are applied; depends on the processor. Plasma and LCD each work a bit differently in how they manage this of course. Anyway, were not converting volts or mV to binary, we're just turning each bit on or off. So again, if all three colors are set to the same bit level, 00000000 is black and 11111111 is white.

1080PsF

Yeah, I give you that most home monitors are 8-bit not 10-bit. I was using numbers that I know since I haven’t dealt in 8-bit in years and I don’t even remember how many mV equal a bit. And yes all is converted from mV to bits, where do you think the bits come from magic? So doing some simple math it looks like 1.5IRE equals 1 bit, so the black level would be 0010 0000 in binary and white would be 0101 1110. These numbers that I’ve calculated are for composite digital video not component digital. Lets see here it looks like component digital would be 0001 0000 for black and 1101 0111 for white, that’s 0mV for black and 700mV for white because in component digital video only gets 700mV not 714 like in NTSC. There are limits on the levels so it’s not all or nothing like you are saying making black all zeros and white all ones. Now getting back to the original post about the black level on a LCD vs. Plasma an LCD always needs some voltage so they are slightly brighter than a Plasma would be.