Image Retention reality

tristanh · 05-21-2007, 08:12 PM

Ok, so I'm leaning towards the plasma TV, but IR potential bothers me, due to all the stations having logos constantly on screen.

If I watch, say 2 hours of USA network, how long do I have to watch something else before that logo is gone, on average? Same with say, 'cops' on "g4" *two logos* to contend with.

How big a deal is this really, how long does it usually take, and more importantly, during the 'break in' period, do I just pretty much have to stay away from those kinds of channels?

BamaPanda · 05-21-2007, 09:02 PM

Buy the set you like that has the best image prevention built in. That is one step toward a restful night. Add to that an excellent warranty (or buy an extended one) plus get the latest generation PDP panel (most, if not all of the big boys have great panels) that uses mixed phosphor gases, therefore making IR/burn in very improbable. Use common sense after setting your set to 50% settings on contrast, brightness, and even less than that on sharpness - filling the screen up, and play a lot of movies like I did for the first 200 or so hours - then some caution till you get past 500 hours.
To speed that up, download and burn this aging disc.
http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/downloads.htm

ideal4u57 · 05-26-2007, 03:57 PM

I sure would thoroughly research this image retention issue in whatever unit you purchase. I have drooled and drooled and saved forever to by my 2 Pioneer Elite Plasma's only to get image retention in both of them. The retention came from my addiction to watching the Fox News channel I guess. There logo and the area where it always scrolls at the bottom of the screen has burnt permanently into both Plasma's. I watch tons of other channels and a lot more programming than just Fox, Fox isn't the only thing I watch, but I have several programs that I watch regularly on it, so I am a victim of this retention. I don't know where I stand as far as warranty but I am going to fire off an email to the hometown dealer where I purchased them both at and see what Pioneer will do about it. I thought I was buying the best model available but so much for that. A word of advice, I was at BBuy the other day. They had all of there units fired up showing the same stuff over and over again, and I noticed the image retention just as bad on the Sony XBR2 LCD units which really blew me away. I have been so disappointed with my situation I got lucky and sold one of my units so I am looking for another, but it appears that none of these units that I have looked at are immuned from it. I would know who I was dealing with on such a large purchase and get something in writing about this issue if it happens to you. I spent 10 grand to learn all about image retention and it makes you sick for that kind of money. Good Luck with your search and I hope that you find a very desirable TV. Bye the way, I have a 46 RPT, it is a Toshiba, Fox's banner and logo has burnt it in also. You would think that Fox or someone should or would be liable for this crap. I guess I need to find something else other than that channel to watch. I have tried watching bright movies for hours and hours etc, and nothing takes it away after it is burnt it.

inazsully · 05-27-2007, 11:17 AM

Go to "avsforum", scroll down to plasma displays, and read the post labeled "Good Response to Burnin". Even when leaving a static display onscreen for 48 hours, any IR disappeared after watching regular programming. As stated, companies like Panasonic, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, Vizio, Maxent, Zenith, Dell etc. would not remain in the plasma business if something like "burnin" was considered still a real world problem. Pioneer and Panasonic pretty much have all their eggs in the plasma basket. I have been an avid TV watcher for over 35 years and have never left a TV on with a static display over a weekend (48hrs). But if I ever do, I anticipate no worries.

nmlobo · 05-27-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inazsully

Go to "avsforum", scroll down to plasma displays, and read the post labeled "Good Response to Burnin". Even when leaving a static display onscreen for 48 hours, any IR disappeared after watching regular programming. As stated, companies like Panasonic, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, Vizio, Maxent, Zenith, Dell etc. would not remain in the plasma business if something like "burnin" was considered still a real world problem. Pioneer and Panasonic pretty much have all their eggs in the plasma basket. I have been an avid TV watcher for over 35 years and have never left a TV on with a static display over a weekend (48hrs). But if I ever do, I anticipate no worries.

IR is today's problem, not traditional 'burn-in'. Go to AVS forum, Flat Panel General & New FP Tech, and then look at the nearly 2900 posts in the MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! thread. Read some of the posts over the past 3 months - name brand sets displaying IR within a very short time - talking one or two hours to appear, not 48. Most seem to disappear over time but some posters reported difficulties clearing the screen.

ideal4u57 · 05-27-2007, 12:52 PM

If I go out and buy a new 5,000.00 Plasma and watch Fox news for 48 hours and get permanent burn in or image retention this surely is not my fault. During that 48 hours or so there were commercials, different shows and programming every 30-60 minutes etc. I have watched way more TV than Fox and I can not reverse my IR. If you or anyone else out there reading this forum don't think Image retention is a problem with Plasma or LCD televisions, you have a very RUDE awakening. I personally had 2 Pioneer Elites of my own with it, by the way they discontinued both models within 6 months or so of release, and I saw it on just about every model wether it was LCD or Plasma at the Box Stores last week. As they play there scripted crystal clear programming and when the screen goes blank for a few seconds, 90% of the whole row of TV's (about 12 of them) had IR. I have no reason to lie about this issue. I am just trying to help educated what has happened to me and what I have saw just last week. Make sure before you plunk down thousands of dollars you know EXACTLY where YOU STAND WITH AND IF I/R problems occur. It would be in your best interest. I sure wish I would have done my homework or know about this issue but I just didn't know and buying one of the most expensive TV's on the market at the time I felt this couldn't happen to me, now I have to look at it every day of my life. JT

DEVO · 05-27-2007, 01:37 PM

I personally have a PRO1130HD myself, and some IR began within the 1st 100 hours (ESPNHD) logo and my XBOX360 games like (JM NFL2007) banner at the bottom

. So I stopped playing that game, and it went away. The (ESPNHD) logo has began to fade away to a point that I don't even notice it unless it is a white screen. I have had it now for about 9 months now (still breaking it in).
Being aware of these issues is half the game.

PFC5 · 05-27-2007, 11:31 PM

AFAIK, no warranty will cover burn-in. It is just amazing that these networks just use these logos constantly now instead of just having it pop up every few minutes for a few seconds. I think they do it so that they can know the source if video gets recorded with a DVR and ends up on the net for download.

For those who think burn-in does not happen just ask about the warranty on burn-in and get it in writing if they say it is not an issue anymore. Ditto for extended warranties at BB/CC.

BobY · 05-27-2007, 11:42 PM

I think you need to draw a disctinction between temporary image retention and permanent image retention.

Nothing that uses a phosphor can totally avoid image retention and the brighter and higher contrast the image, the more quickly the image gets retained, however if any image retention can be cleared up using the built-in screen cleaner or even by tuning to static for a while, then you can't complain. If you don't like that, you shouldn't have bought a CRT or Plasma display--it's not the fault of the display manufacturer if networks put fixed logos up and you watch them for hours on end.

There is no display technology currently available, not even LCD, that doesn't suffer from some form of temporary image retention.

TheJerm · 01-12-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

There is no display technology currently available, not even LCD, that doesn't suffer from some form of temporary image retention.

I have to disagree with you here. DLP doesn't have this problem. Also, although I have heard about the possibility of temporary image retention in LCD panels, I have never actually seen it despite having seen literally hundreds, if not thousands, of LCD screens. Plasma burn-in is a real problem though; I've witnessed it on my own PDP.

-The Jerm

Jim Bob Jones · 01-12-2008, 09:17 AM

"If I go out and buy a new 5,000.00 Plasma and watch Fox news for 48 hours and get permanent burn in or image retention this surely is not my fault"

If you buy a plasma knowing it is subject to image retention/burn in and you purposely use it in a manner that will almost certainly cause that problem, whose fault is it? Get real.

z28rod · 01-12-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

If you buy a plasma knowing it is subject to image retention/burn in and you purposely use it in a manner that will almost certainly cause that problem, whose fault is it?

exactly good point.

GregRS · 10-18-2008, 08:52 PM

I have a Pioneer Elite plasma that I have had for 4-years recently I have noticed that there is temporary image retention, not from a static image but something that was on shortly before. The image is a grainy green color and it comes and goes. Has anybody experienced this??

PFC5 · 10-18-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregRS

I have a Pioneer Elite plasma that I have had for 4-years recently I have noticed that there is temporary image retention, not from a static image but something that was on shortly before. The image is a grainy green color and it comes and goes. Has anybody experienced this??

My friend had this with his LG plasmas, but I never see this on my Panasonic plasma. I doubt you would see this as pronounced on a current Pioneer plasma, but they all needed improvement in this area back 4 years ago IMO.

Loves2Watch · 10-18-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJerm

I have to disagree with you here. DLP doesn't have this problem. Also, although I have heard about the possibility of temporary image retention in LCD panels, I have never actually seen it despite having seen literally hundreds, if not thousands, of LCD screens. Plasma burn-in is a real problem though; I've witnessed it on my own PDP.

-The Jerm

Actually I have seen both DLP and LCD TV's suffer burn in so BobY is correct.

05-21-2007, 08:12 PM	#1
tristanh What is HD? Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3	Image Retention reality Ok, so I'm leaning towards the plasma TV, but IR potential bothers me, due to all the stations having logos constantly on screen. If I watch, say 2 hours of USA network, how long do I have to watch something else before that logo is gone, on average? Same with say, 'cops' on "g4" two logos to contend with. How big a deal is this really, how long does it usually take, and more importantly, during the 'break in' period, do I just pretty much have to stay away from those kinds of channels?

05-21-2007, 09:02 PM	#2
BamaPanda Something will come to me Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Talladega County, Alabama Posts: 1,178	Buy the set you like that has the best image prevention built in. That is one step toward a restful night. Add to that an excellent warranty (or buy an extended one) plus get the latest generation PDP panel (most, if not all of the big boys have great panels) that uses mixed phosphor gases, therefore making IR/burn in very improbable. Use common sense after setting your set to 50% settings on contrast, brightness, and even less than that on sharpness - filling the screen up, and play a lot of movies like I did for the first 200 or so hours - then some caution till you get past 500 hours. To speed that up, download and burn this aging disc. http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/downloads.htm __________________ Everyone is a fan!

05-26-2007, 03:57 PM	#3
ideal4u57 ILOVEITLOUD Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Steinhatchee Florida Posts: 57	Image Retention I sure would thoroughly research this image retention issue in whatever unit you purchase. I have drooled and drooled and saved forever to by my 2 Pioneer Elite Plasma's only to get image retention in both of them. The retention came from my addiction to watching the Fox News channel I guess. There logo and the area where it always scrolls at the bottom of the screen has burnt permanently into both Plasma's. I watch tons of other channels and a lot more programming than just Fox, Fox isn't the only thing I watch, but I have several programs that I watch regularly on it, so I am a victim of this retention. I don't know where I stand as far as warranty but I am going to fire off an email to the hometown dealer where I purchased them both at and see what Pioneer will do about it. I thought I was buying the best model available but so much for that. A word of advice, I was at BBuy the other day. They had all of there units fired up showing the same stuff over and over again, and I noticed the image retention just as bad on the Sony XBR2 LCD units which really blew me away. I have been so disappointed with my situation I got lucky and sold one of my units so I am looking for another, but it appears that none of these units that I have looked at are immuned from it. I would know who I was dealing with on such a large purchase and get something in writing about this issue if it happens to you. I spent 10 grand to learn all about image retention and it makes you sick for that kind of money. Good Luck with your search and I hope that you find a very desirable TV. Bye the way, I have a 46 RPT, it is a Toshiba, Fox's banner and logo has burnt it in also. You would think that Fox or someone should or would be liable for this crap. I guess I need to find something else other than that channel to watch. I have tried watching bright movies for hours and hours etc, and nothing takes it away after it is burnt it. __________________ Pioneer Elite Pro-110 HD 50" Plasma Sony Bravia 52" LCD XBR4 Master B/R McIntosh MC-207 Power Amplifier McIntosh MX-135 A/V Processor With TM-1 Tuner installed McIntosh MVP-861 CD/DVD/SACD (1)Direct TV H20-100S HD DVR (1)Direct TV H20-700 HD DVR Klipsch RF7/RC-7/RS-7 Surround Speakers Klipsch 15" Subwoofer (Shakes the fleas off the Dog's back) Both TV's Mounted on wall Bracket/Bedroom& L/Room. Pioneer Elite BDP-94 Blue Ray Player

05-27-2007, 11:17 AM	#4
inazsully High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 625	Go to "avsforum", scroll down to plasma displays, and read the post labeled "Good Response to Burnin". Even when leaving a static display onscreen for 48 hours, any IR disappeared after watching regular programming. As stated, companies like Panasonic, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, Vizio, Maxent, Zenith, Dell etc. would not remain in the plasma business if something like "burnin" was considered still a real world problem. Pioneer and Panasonic pretty much have all their eggs in the plasma basket. I have been an avid TV watcher for over 35 years and have never left a TV on with a static display over a weekend (48hrs). But if I ever do, I anticipate no worries. Last edited by inazsully; 05-27-2007 at 11:19 AM. Reason: left out word

05-27-2007, 12:52 PM	#6
ideal4u57 ILOVEITLOUD Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Steinhatchee Florida Posts: 57	Image Retention If I go out and buy a new 5,000.00 Plasma and watch Fox news for 48 hours and get permanent burn in or image retention this surely is not my fault. During that 48 hours or so there were commercials, different shows and programming every 30-60 minutes etc. I have watched way more TV than Fox and I can not reverse my IR. If you or anyone else out there reading this forum don't think Image retention is a problem with Plasma or LCD televisions, you have a very RUDE awakening. I personally had 2 Pioneer Elites of my own with it, by the way they discontinued both models within 6 months or so of release, and I saw it on just about every model wether it was LCD or Plasma at the Box Stores last week. As they play there scripted crystal clear programming and when the screen goes blank for a few seconds, 90% of the whole row of TV's (about 12 of them) had IR. I have no reason to lie about this issue. I am just trying to help educated what has happened to me and what I have saw just last week. Make sure before you plunk down thousands of dollars you know EXACTLY where YOU STAND WITH AND IF I/R problems occur. It would be in your best interest. I sure wish I would have done my homework or know about this issue but I just didn't know and buying one of the most expensive TV's on the market at the time I felt this couldn't happen to me, now I have to look at it every day of my life. JT __________________ Pioneer Elite Pro-110 HD 50" Plasma Sony Bravia 52" LCD XBR4 Master B/R McIntosh MC-207 Power Amplifier McIntosh MX-135 A/V Processor With TM-1 Tuner installed McIntosh MVP-861 CD/DVD/SACD (1)Direct TV H20-100S HD DVR (1)Direct TV H20-700 HD DVR Klipsch RF7/RC-7/RS-7 Surround Speakers Klipsch 15" Subwoofer (Shakes the fleas off the Dog's back) Both TV's Mounted on wall Bracket/Bedroom& L/Room. Pioneer Elite BDP-94 Blue Ray Player

05-27-2007, 01:37 PM	#7
DEVO "high" on hi def Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 308	Pro1130hd I personally have a PRO1130HD myself, and some IR began within the 1st 100 hours (ESPNHD) logo and my XBOX360 games like (JM NFL2007) banner at the bottom . So I stopped playing that game, and it went away. The (ESPNHD) logo has began to fade away to a point that I don't even notice it unless it is a white screen. I have had it now for about 9 months now (still breaking it in). Being aware of these issues is half the game.

05-27-2007, 11:31 PM	#8
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	AFAIK, no warranty will cover burn-in. It is just amazing that these networks just use these logos constantly now instead of just having it pop up every few minutes for a few seconds. I think they do it so that they can know the source if video gets recorded with a DVR and ends up on the net for download. For those who think burn-in does not happen just ask about the warranty on burn-in and get it in writing if they say it is not an issue anymore. Ditto for extended warranties at BB/CC. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

05-27-2007, 11:42 PM	#9
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	I think you need to draw a disctinction between temporary image retention and permanent image retention. Nothing that uses a phosphor can totally avoid image retention and the brighter and higher contrast the image, the more quickly the image gets retained, however if any image retention can be cleared up using the built-in screen cleaner or even by tuning to static for a while, then you can't complain. If you don't like that, you shouldn't have bought a CRT or Plasma display--it's not the fault of the display manufacturer if networks put fixed logos up and you watch them for hours on end. There is no display technology currently available, not even LCD, that doesn't suffer from some form of temporary image retention.

01-12-2008, 09:17 AM	#11
Jim Bob Jones High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,181	"If I go out and buy a new 5,000.00 Plasma and watch Fox news for 48 hours and get permanent burn in or image retention this surely is not my fault" If you buy a plasma knowing it is subject to image retention/burn in and you purposely use it in a manner that will almost certainly cause that problem, whose fault is it? Get real.

10-18-2008, 08:52 PM	#13
GregRS What is HD? Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1	Temp immage I have a Pioneer Elite plasma that I have had for 4-years recently I have noticed that there is temporary image retention, not from a static image but something that was on shortly before. The image is a grainy green color and it comes and goes. Has anybody experienced this??

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