some HD channels worthless to watch

Blintok · 02-23-2007, 11:20 AM

If i may explain
Quite a few of the HD stations display programming in 4:3 mode.
example, A&E here, is available on an digital channel and also a HD channel.
A program i was watching last nite, it was letterboxed on the Digital channel but was letterboxed AND in 4:3 on the HD channel ..rendering my 42in plasma into a 27in screen i had 7yrs ago!! LOL

I have posted similar complaints before on another site and got flamed for it!!

I do not understand the people that find this perfectly acceptable and normal. I bought a widescreen 16:9 tv to experience...<GASP> a widescreen TV!! i know its crazy but its true

There are ways and technologies available to properly stretch programming..but ideally some day everything will be taped\filmed in widescreen(and most hollywood movies are afaik)

just something that bugs me and had to vent after what i saw last nite. I will not watch HD that does that (4:3) and thats a shame because otherwise HD is great. (discovery channel as an example)

Lee Stewart · 02-23-2007, 12:03 PM

That's probably because the program content wasn't HD. It was NTSC pumped over an HD channel.

This is a very common occurence. I have the 4 preminum channels (HBO, etc) and maybe 1/2 to 2/3's are HD. The remainder is 4x3 with bars on the side.

I can't even depend on my TV Guide to tell me if the program is in HD. Many times there is no HD symbol, yet the movie is in HD like RISING SUN and PITCH BLACK to name just two.

As far as I can see there are only 3 channels that are 100% HD all the time (that I have) and they are Discovery HD Theater, TNT and INHD. I believe HDNET is also 100% but I don't have it so I am not positive.

The biggest problem is HD programming content. If the original program was filmed with 35mm camera's then it has to be transfered to HD format, the way you would do for a movie. If HD-CAM was used then excellent chance you will see it in HD.

HD is just a few years old. It took Color TV 13 years before all programming was in color and we had a whopping 12 channels.Today that number is over 200.

Be patient

lbaboyd · 02-23-2007, 12:44 PM

I'm not in the know at all, but I notice the same thing that you mention. I just got my digital HD service hookup with TWC and their DVR, but am thinking about canceling it because before -- with just the standard cable hookup with them, I had a great looking picture, and with the TV (Panasonic TH-42px600u) set on JUST (Justified) it filled the whole screen.

Like you, I don't like the idea of all the sides, bottoms and tops not being in the picture.

I'm still experimenting, and I find that when the smaller screen comes up I can set the DVR to PASS THROUGH mode and use the TV remote to change the aspect ratio and sometimes I'm able to fill the screen. Not sure why this is, but this sometimes gives me the picture I prefer.

Another annoyance with the TWC digital HD hookup here in Austin is that on several of the minor channels I can barely get the volume loud enough to hear it. I doubt that I will cancel the digital HD service, but I was expecting something a bit better.

Lee Stewart · 02-23-2007, 01:02 PM

My solution is threefold for watching SD content on my HDTV:

1. Switch to the SD channel then use my Zoom button which will cutoff some from the top and bottom . . .image fills the screen

2. Leave the SD channel in normal mode and watch the picture stretched to lose nothing.

3. Not watch it at all and find another program to watch.

I will not watch a program on an HD channel that is 4x3 pillar boxed. . . I don't care what it is.

**rbinck** · 02-23-2007, 01:54 PM

I've noticed this a lot on network TV and some selective cable channels like CMT where they have shot the program in widescreen, 16:9, and show the program on their SD channel in letterbox. On the cable channels there is nothing to do but to zoom the picture. On network HD channels it is usually due to someone at the station not flipping a switch and that is very irritating.

Lee Stewart · 02-23-2007, 02:16 PM

flipping a switch

Jeeze . . . I haven't heard that phrase in a long time. Back when HDTV was just starting out, this used to happen all the time.

I was on a different forum then and there used to be tons of threads with hundreds of posts about people calling the engineer at the local "HD" station and telling him to "flip the switch" cause the program wasn't in HD.

There were about 20 of us in the Brooklyn, Queens and Western Nassau (Long Island) area's of NY that were helping PBS get their HD broadcast fine tuned.

First it took about an hour just to get all of us on a telephone link (20 into 1). Then when the engineer "flipped the switch" you heard a big cheer from the phone . . .until one guy is yelling "I don't see anything"
(he was on the wrong channel).

Then they started the tuning process and what woulf happen was if it went to far we in Long Island got the signal . . .but the people in Queens lost it (transmitter was in Brooklyn).

Well after about 3 hours on the phone they finally got it to a point where all of us could get PBS HD.

**rbinck** · 02-23-2007, 04:38 PM

It happens all of the time here in Houston on just about all of the networks. They go to commercials and when they come back they forget to switch back to the HD feed. It is getting better though. Eventually the digital side will be primary and the analog side will track the digital, but until that time they still need to flip the switch.

pappylap · 02-23-2007, 06:44 PM

So the local stations in Charlotte were flipping the switch at 6:00 pm during sunday NFL broadcast from HD to SD even though the game was only in the 4th quarter.....I wondered what was going on.....do the local stations have to pay a certain amount to broadcast HD by the minute???...

**rbinck** · 02-23-2007, 06:56 PM

lol no. Remember that basically they are running two TV stations with one stations worth of personell. If they go to commercial and flip the switch sometimes they get busy with their normal TV stuff and forget to switch it back. They are not sticklers on this yet because the installed HD base, although growing, is still a fraction of the viewers. It will get better as time goes on.

Lee Stewart · 02-23-2007, 07:45 PM

You would think in 2007, with all of the advancements in computers and robotics and such, that there would be some kind of an automated system the would do the switch flipping automatically and take the human element out of he equation.

Guess not

TampaDude · 02-23-2007, 08:36 PM

Once in a while, the HD signal on A&E HD will have audio problems, and they will "flip the switch" to a non-HD version for awhile...weird...

paulc · 02-24-2007, 07:32 AM

TNT 100% widescreen? Puhleeze, they are about 15% HD, the rest is distorted/stretched SD. The fact that someone thinks they are 100% HD points to the fact that a judgement is being made because there are no black bars (I'm NOT trying to single anyone out, I'm trying to make a generalization). By the same logic, one could distort all their signals and conclude they are seeing 100% HD on everything!

Starz runs some movies in 16:9, non-distorted SD. When one of my local channels announced their news would be in HD, they installed the camera and added black bars 2 weeks before the "official" debut. In point of fact, the debut day had them going widescreen, but they HAD been doing HD all along.

The point is that HD is about resolution, not so much aspect ratio (even though A/R is supposed to be part of the HD spec).

Ender3rd · 02-24-2007, 03:25 PM

"TNT 100% widescreen? Puhleeze, they are about 15% HD, the rest is distorted/stretched SD."

Indeed, this is perhaps the most irritating thing I have experienced when watching "HD content". When I correct the aspect ratio on the TNT "stretched to fill your widescreen" picture, everything looks fine again, except that their little TNT logo down in the corner is no longer round. Pretty lame...

Ender

02-23-2007, 11:20 AM	#1
Blintok High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 143	some HD channels worthless to watch If i may explain Quite a few of the HD stations display programming in 4:3 mode. example, A&E here, is available on an digital channel and also a HD channel. A program i was watching last nite, it was letterboxed on the Digital channel but was letterboxed AND in 4:3 on the HD channel ..rendering my 42in plasma into a 27in screen i had 7yrs ago!! LOL I have posted similar complaints before on another site and got flamed for it!! I do not understand the people that find this perfectly acceptable and normal. I bought a widescreen 16:9 tv to experience...<GASP> a widescreen TV!! i know its crazy but its true There are ways and technologies available to properly stretch programming..but ideally some day everything will be taped\filmed in widescreen(and most hollywood movies are afaik) just something that bugs me and had to vent after what i saw last nite. I will not watch HD that does that (4:3) and thats a shame because otherwise HD is great. (discovery channel as an example)

02-23-2007, 01:54 PM	#5
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,967	I've noticed this a lot on network TV and some selective cable channels like CMT where they have shot the program in widescreen, 16:9, and show the program on their SD channel in letterbox. On the cable channels there is nothing to do but to zoom the picture. On network HD channels it is usually due to someone at the station not flipping a switch and that is very irritating. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-23-2007, 04:38 PM	#7
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,967	It happens all of the time here in Houston on just about all of the networks. They go to commercials and when they come back they forget to switch back to the HD feed. It is getting better though. Eventually the digital side will be primary and the analog side will track the digital, but until that time they still need to flip the switch. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-23-2007, 06:44 PM	#8
pappylap I See You! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Way over Yonder Age: 4 Posts: 3,730	So the local stations in Charlotte were flipping the switch at 6:00 pm during sunday NFL broadcast from HD to SD even though the game was only in the 4th quarter.....I wondered what was going on.....do the local stations have to pay a certain amount to broadcast HD by the minute???... __________________ My display..http://www.sellcomputersandelectroni...PRO111FD50.jpg Trolls and spammers eliminated today=0 "Shaving cream is produced by pasteurizing the frothy saliva of rabid animals." http://www.badmovies.org/movies/weas...easelsrip1.wav

02-23-2007, 06:56 PM	#9
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,967	lol no. Remember that basically they are running two TV stations with one stations worth of personell. If they go to commercial and flip the switch sometimes they get busy with their normal TV stuff and forget to switch it back. They are not sticklers on this yet because the installed HD base, although growing, is still a fraction of the viewers. It will get better as time goes on. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-23-2007, 12:03 PM	#2
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 26,373	That's probably because the program content wasn't HD. It was NTSC pumped over an HD channel. This is a very common occurence. I have the 4 preminum channels (HBO, etc) and maybe 1/2 to 2/3's are HD. The remainder is 4x3 with bars on the side. I can't even depend on my TV Guide to tell me if the program is in HD. Many times there is no HD symbol, yet the movie is in HD like RISING SUN and PITCH BLACK to name just two. As far as I can see there are only 3 channels that are 100% HD all the time (that I have) and they are Discovery HD Theater, TNT and INHD. I believe HDNET is also 100% but I don't have it so I am not positive. The biggest problem is HD programming content. If the original program was filmed with 35mm camera's then it has to be transfered to HD format, the way you would do for a movie. If HD-CAM was used then excellent chance you will see it in HD. HD is just a few years old. It took Color TV 13 years before all programming was in color and we had a whopping 12 channels.Today that number is over 200. Be patient

02-23-2007, 12:44 PM	#3
lbaboyd How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 20	I'm not in the know at all, but I notice the same thing that you mention. I just got my digital HD service hookup with TWC and their DVR, but am thinking about canceling it because before -- with just the standard cable hookup with them, I had a great looking picture, and with the TV (Panasonic TH-42px600u) set on JUST (Justified) it filled the whole screen. Like you, I don't like the idea of all the sides, bottoms and tops not being in the picture. I'm still experimenting, and I find that when the smaller screen comes up I can set the DVR to PASS THROUGH mode and use the TV remote to change the aspect ratio and sometimes I'm able to fill the screen. Not sure why this is, but this sometimes gives me the picture I prefer. Another annoyance with the TWC digital HD hookup here in Austin is that on several of the minor channels I can barely get the volume loud enough to hear it. I doubt that I will cancel the digital HD service, but I was expecting something a bit better.

02-23-2007, 01:02 PM	#4
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 26,373	My solution is threefold for watching SD content on my HDTV: 1. Switch to the SD channel then use my Zoom button which will cutoff some from the top and bottom . . .image fills the screen 2. Leave the SD channel in normal mode and watch the picture stretched to lose nothing. 3. Not watch it at all and find another program to watch. I will not watch a program on an HD channel that is 4x3 pillar boxed. . . I don't care what it is.

02-23-2007, 02:16 PM	#6
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 26,373	flipping a switch Jeeze . . . I haven't heard that phrase in a long time. Back when HDTV was just starting out, this used to happen all the time. I was on a different forum then and there used to be tons of threads with hundreds of posts about people calling the engineer at the local "HD" station and telling him to "flip the switch" cause the program wasn't in HD. There were about 20 of us in the Brooklyn, Queens and Western Nassau (Long Island) area's of NY that were helping PBS get their HD broadcast fine tuned. First it took about an hour just to get all of us on a telephone link (20 into 1). Then when the engineer "flipped the switch" you heard a big cheer from the phone . . .until one guy is yelling "I don't see anything" (he was on the wrong channel). Then they started the tuning process and what woulf happen was if it went to far we in Long Island got the signal . . .but the people in Queens lost it (transmitter was in Brooklyn). Well after about 3 hours on the phone they finally got it to a point where all of us could get PBS HD.

02-23-2007, 07:45 PM	#10
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 26,373	You would think in 2007, with all of the advancements in computers and robotics and such, that there would be some kind of an automated system the would do the switch flipping automatically and take the human element out of he equation. Guess not

02-23-2007, 08:36 PM	#11
TampaDude High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 173	Once in a while, the HD signal on A&E HD will have audio problems, and they will "flip the switch" to a non-HD version for awhile...weird...

02-24-2007, 07:32 AM	#12
paulc Very Grizzled Vet of 1 yr Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 1,764	TNT 100% widescreen? Puhleeze, they are about 15% HD, the rest is distorted/stretched SD. The fact that someone thinks they are 100% HD points to the fact that a judgement is being made because there are no black bars (I'm NOT trying to single anyone out, I'm trying to make a generalization). By the same logic, one could distort all their signals and conclude they are seeing 100% HD on everything! Starz runs some movies in 16:9, non-distorted SD. When one of my local channels announced their news would be in HD, they installed the camera and added black bars 2 weeks before the "official" debut. In point of fact, the debut day had them going widescreen, but they HAD been doing HD all along. The point is that HD is about resolution, not so much aspect ratio (even though A/R is supposed to be part of the HD spec).

02-24-2007, 03:25 PM	#13
Ender3rd HD is better than reality Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CT Posts: 7	"TNT 100% widescreen? Puhleeze, they are about 15% HD, the rest is distorted/stretched SD." Indeed, this is perhaps the most irritating thing I have experienced when watching "HD content". When I correct the aspect ratio on the TNT "stretched to fill your widescreen" picture, everything looks fine again, except that their little TNT logo down in the corner is no longer round. Pretty lame... Ender

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