Exchanged My 32" LCD For A 42" LCD

Ward Cleaver · 01-25-2006, 03:34 PM

I had bought a 32" Philips 16x9 LCD HDTV just last month.
I was very, very satisfied with the picture. However, after viewing it for a month I decided that we would be regretting it down the road if I didn't get one with a larger screen.

The store I bought it at has a 90 days - no questions asked - exchange policy.
So, yesterday afternoon we took it back and exchanged it for a
42" Philips 16x9 LCD HDTV.

When I got it out of the box I was amazed at how much bigger this
tv/picture is compared to the 32 inch.
That extra 10 inches made a big, big difference.
Now, it looks like a true home theater panel.
The HD picture is amazing. Crystal clear.

This Philips also has the "Ambilight" system, which, when I turn it down to a dim, mellow setting makes for very nice, relaxing ambience lighting in the room with all the other lights off.

I very much like the quality of the Philips brand (they make some of the best medical/radiology imaging equipment in the world).

The Philips company is based in the Netherlands and my tv is made in Belgium...which I feel much better about than having a panel made in Taiwan, Singapore or Mexico...but hey, that's just my opinion.

The problem now is...I had my 32" LCD mounted to the wall. I was very meticulous in how I did it with a very flush mount and running all the wires through the wall...and it all had to come down.
The mount on the wall is too small for my new 42 inch, so I had to get a new mount. So, now I have a project for this weekend.

Also, while I was at it, I got a Monster HDMI cable.

I'll post a picture after I get it installed on the wall.

Regards,
-Ward

sl7vk · 01-25-2006, 03:37 PM

There is absolutly no reason to buy a monster HDMI cable. There is no digital degredation. You'll either get the picture or you won't. I hope you didn't pay more then 25 bucks for that thing.

As for the TV, I'm surprised it's made in belgium. I wasn't aware of any LCD glass factories there.

Is this the TV you got? Looks pretty nice if so....

http://www.store.philips.com/b2c_red...IRECT#features

I thought LG was making Philips LCD glass?

Ward Cleaver · 01-26-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

"As for the TV, I'm surprised it's made in Belgium. I wasn't aware of any LCD glass factories there...I thought LG was making Philips LCD glass?"

To be more exact, the LCD glass manufacturer is "LG Philips," a joint venture between LG and Royal Philips of the Netherlands.
LG has a 38% share in the venture and Royal Philips of the Netherlands has a 62% share.
Its main competitor in LCD glass is Samsung...however, LG Philips has the largest global market share.

Also, there is more electronics involved in the manufacture of an HD television than only the LCD glass...and yes, the television is indeed "Made in Belgium," per the manufacturer's label on the back of the television.
I'll post a picture of the label later this morning.

Quote:

"Is this the TV you got? Looks pretty nice if so...."
http://www.store.philips.com/b2c_re...DIRECT#features

Thanks for the kudos. Mine looks almost identical to the model you linked to. However, the model you linked to is the 42PF-9730A, mine is the 42PF-9830A. http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...ESHQVHKFSEKI5P

I will address your response concerning the Monster HDMI cable in a seperate thread.

Regards,
-Ward

Ward Cleaver · 01-26-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

"As for the TV, I'm surprised it's made in Belgium."

See photo below.

Regards,
-Ward

sl7vk · 01-26-2006, 01:58 PM

Crazy. Do you think the glass is made their, or is the Korean glass assembled to the Belgium electronics in Belgium?

Ward Cleaver · 01-26-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Posted By sl7vk - "Crazy. Do you think the glass is made their, or is the Korean glass assembled to the Belgium electronics in Belgium?"

The LCD glass is made at the LG Philips LCD factory in Korea (the joint venture between LG and Royal Philips of the Netherlands...see my earlier email in this thread). The LCD glass is then sent to the Philips factory in Belgium where the remainder of the television is made and assembled.

LG Philips' main competitor is Samsung, however LG Philips has the largest global market share of any LCD manufacturer in the world.
I would be interested to know how many other flat panel televisions have LCD glass from the LG Philips factory.

Speaking of Korean manufacturers...I have been impressed by their quality.
I have a Samsung microwave oven in my kitchen that is 18 years old.
I have not replaced it because it still operates as good as it did when it was brand new.
I am also sitting in front of a 19" Samsung LCD monitor as I type this.
I purchased it about 3 years ago because it was simply one of the best monitors I could find.

Regards,
-Ward

lafay1 · 01-26-2006, 03:05 PM

Every Philips LCD set I've seen, the picture has been outstanding. Costco, Circuit City, Fry's etc.

Parts are from everywhere. Nothing is 100% home grown anymore

iserum · 01-26-2006, 04:26 PM

there is no advantage in items made in china, Taiwan or even in USA. Manufacturing standard of Companies are standard across the globe, it is the low cost labor which is the bottom line, there is no reason gloating if tv is made in Japan or some western Europe contries. SONY has been building their TVs in Indonesia for for more than decade with out problems.

My TV was made in Japan it has the same chance of having quality problem as any other unit made in any other country.

Ward Cleaver · 01-27-2006, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Posted By Iserum - "Manufacturing standards of companies are standard across the globe."

Incorrect.

We are talking about manufacturing, not pharmaceuticals.
There are no "standards across the globe" in manufacturing.

The prevailing onus of responsibility with consumer goods lies with the consumer, in the form of "caveat emptor" ("let the buyer beware").

A good analogy would be the manufacture of automobiles. Because there are no "global manufacturing standards," you can end up purchasing a poor quality automobile or a good quality automobile...an automoblie with a 5 star crash test rating or an automobile with a 3 star crash test rating...an automobile that comes with a 3 year warranty or one that comes with a 5 year warranty.
Some countries are not known for producing high quality automobiles.
Remember the Yugo?

The same holds true for any product...including televisions.
Some manufacturing plants adhere to stricter standards than other plants.
There are no "global standards" that mandate television manufacturers adhere to certain standards of quality.
Standards of safety, perhaps...standards of quality, no.

Standards of quality are mandated by each individual manufacturer.
Therefore it is wise to be concerned with where and by whom your television is produced.

Regards,
-Ward

md0110 · 01-27-2006, 06:52 AM

Ward,

The particular automobile examples you cited are not issues of differing manufacturing standards, but are issues of differing design standards.

And we can be grateful differing desing standards exist - suppose the only design standard was that of Bentley or Rolls - all cars would be much more expensive and unobtainable by many.

A better example of the effect of manufacturing standards is that of the the comparison of engine reliabilty among the same type of GM auto engines - those made in US/Canada vs. those made in Mexico. Or the Firestone tires that failed on the Ford SUVs same Firestond design standards, but outsourced to a South American(?) plant that failed to construct them properly.

To a certain extent, we can be thankful that differing manufacturing standards exist as well. I don't want to pay for the fit & finish standards of a Benz for an F-150 pickup that I would regularly take 4-wheeling.

Since the days of the US-Canadian vs. Mexican GM motors, international "standards" (ISO 9000, ISO 9001, ISO 9002 ISO etc.) have been introduced (and received with varying degres of enthusiasm), and thus there is perhaps the impression that manufacturing standards are uniform everywhere, but I agree with your larger point that, utlimately, standards vary widely.

md0110

sl7vk · 01-27-2006, 08:52 AM

I agree that manufacturing standards are very similar globally except for China..... Having been to Shenzeng, and a couple of factories, I can tell you that the conditions are abhorent and that I would never buy sensitive electronics from these places. They will catch up, but at the moment, they aren't up to snuff IMHO.

Ward Cleaver · 01-27-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Posted By sl7vk - "I agree that manufacturing standards are very similar globally except for China..."

Just because you believe that, doesn't make it so.

Manufacturing standards vary and are mandated by individual companies (as stated in my earlier post).
Some companies adhere to stricter quality control standards than others. This applies not just to companies worldwide, but also to companies producing the same product within the United States.

Regards,
-Ward

Ward Cleaver · 01-27-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Posted by md0110 - "The particular automobile examples you cited are not issues of differing manufacturing standards, but are issues of differing design standards."

No, the automobile analogy I made is indeed a prime example of varying manufacturing and quality control standards.

Also, the only "particular automobile examples" that I cited in particular was the Yugo. The rest of my automobile example was a broad anaogy used to illustrate a point.
I wasn't comparing the "design" of a Yugo with the "design" of a Rolls Royce. You obviously missed my point entirely.
(But, even with the Rolls Royce, the design of it would be for naught if strict quality control standards were not in place during the process of manufacturing it).

There are many compact cars built around the world with various degrees of quality control standards within their manufacturing plants.
The Zastava Automobile Company built one in particular called the Yugo.
The manufacturing process of the Yugo involved looser quality control standards than some other manufacturers of compact cars.
Therefore, the Zastava Automobile Company produced an automobile of comparatively inferior quality with the Yugo.

Similarly, there are various manufacturers of LCD televisions around the world. If strict quality control standards are not in place during the manufacturing process, then an inferior LCD television will be produced.

Just as there are no "global standards" in place to mandate that every automobile receive a 5 star crash test rating as opposed to a 3 star crash test rating...or a 3 year manufacturer's warranty as opposed to a 5 year warranty...likewise, there are no "global standards" in place that mandate what level of quality control is in place during the manufacture of LCD televisions.

As I said before, "caveat emtor" ("let the buyer beware") is the order of the day when purchasing consumer goods.
Research, do your homework and purchase wisely.

Regards,
-Ward

keis · 01-27-2006, 04:20 PM

Digital cable quality can make a difference. Your premise that digital is either there or not is only partially true. The audio world has proven that. CDs were terrible to start with even though Nyquest theory proved there was no concern. What was missing was a better understanding of jitter. In video the digital signal clock speed, impedence mismatches etc can also degrade a digital signal even though the speed of the HDMI is all the same. Internal reflections (impedence variation in the cable length itself) can cause reflections and these can develope time code ghosts in the HDMI receiver circuitry. So its not all just hype and black magic.

md0110 · 01-27-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward Cleaver

YI wasn't comparing the "design" of a Yugo with the "design" of a Rolls Royce. You obviously missed my point entirely

I humbly reserve the right to "miss" points horribly misstated. I know you were't COMPARING design; I was stating you OVERLOOKED design - as if you had been stating that manufacturing standards are solely responsible for the quality of a product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward Cleaver

A good analogy would be the manufacture of automobiles. Because there are no "global manufacturing standards," you can end up purchasing a poor quality automobile or a good quality automobile...an automoblie with a 5 star crash test rating or an automobile with a 3 star crash test rating...

You attribute crash test performance to manufacturing, with no mention of design having an impact. BOTH have an impact. My point. Which YOU obviously missed entirely.

Perhaps rather than say "particular examples you cited" I should have said "particular statements you made."

Quote:

Originally Posted by md0110

I agree with your larger point that, utlimately, standards vary widely.

I am truly sorry that my agreement with your point did not meet your standards. You strike me as someone with whom agreement may be no sign of honor. I shall not do so again.

md0110

01-25-2006, 03:34 PM	#1
Ward Cleaver 1024 x 768 Is Not True HD Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 263	Exchanged My 32" LCD For A 42" LCD I had bought a 32" Philips 16x9 LCD HDTV just last month. I was very, very satisfied with the picture. However, after viewing it for a month I decided that we would be regretting it down the road if I didn't get one with a larger screen. The store I bought it at has a 90 days - no questions asked - exchange policy. So, yesterday afternoon we took it back and exchanged it for a 42" Philips 16x9 LCD HDTV. When I got it out of the box I was amazed at how much bigger this tv/picture is compared to the 32 inch. That extra 10 inches made a big, big difference. Now, it looks like a true home theater panel. The HD picture is amazing. Crystal clear. This Philips also has the "Ambilight" system, which, when I turn it down to a dim, mellow setting makes for very nice, relaxing ambience lighting in the room with all the other lights off. I very much like the quality of the Philips brand (they make some of the best medical/radiology imaging equipment in the world). The Philips company is based in the Netherlands and my tv is made in Belgium...which I feel much better about than having a panel made in Taiwan, Singapore or Mexico...but hey, that's just my opinion. The problem now is...I had my 32" LCD mounted to the wall. I was very meticulous in how I did it with a very flush mount and running all the wires through the wall...and it all had to come down. The mount on the wall is too small for my new 42 inch, so I had to get a new mount. So, now I have a project for this weekend. Also, while I was at it, I got a Monster HDMI cable. I'll post a picture after I get it installed on the wall. Regards, -Ward __________________ The ATSC (the body whch sets the standards for HDTV) recognizes only two standards for HDTV...1280 x 720 and 1920 x 1080 www.atsc.org The ATSC standards for HDTV are recognized by the FCC.

01-25-2006, 03:37 PM	#2
sl7vk Panasonic Plasma Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 603	There is absolutly no reason to buy a monster HDMI cable. There is no digital degredation. You'll either get the picture or you won't. I hope you didn't pay more then 25 bucks for that thing. As for the TV, I'm surprised it's made in belgium. I wasn't aware of any LCD glass factories there. Is this the TV you got? Looks pretty nice if so.... http://www.store.philips.com/b2c_red...IRECT#features I thought LG was making Philips LCD glass? Last edited by sl7vk; 01-25-2006 at 03:44 PM.

01-26-2006, 04:26 PM	#8
iserum High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,955	there is no advantage in items made in china, Taiwan or even in USA. Manufacturing standard of Companies are standard across the globe, it is the low cost labor which is the bottom line, there is no reason gloating if tv is made in Japan or some western Europe contries. SONY has been building their TVs in Indonesia for for more than decade with out problems. My TV was made in Japan it has the same chance of having quality problem as any other unit made in any other country. __________________ Panasonic 50PX80U/Pioneer BDP-51FD /Toshiba HD A1/Tivo HD SAMSUNG LNT-4661F/ Pioneer BDP-51FD/Dell XPS, Nvidia 9500 GT SONY BRAVIA 40V2500/40 GB PS3, WII, Intel Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 6800 Yamaha RXV1700 Def. Tech. Mythos III, V & Gems, Super Cube III Harmony Remote One Power Conditioner: Belkin PF40

01-27-2006, 06:52 AM	#10
md0110 HD- Nice but it's only TV Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 92	Ward, Weren't you a little hard on the beaver? Ward, The particular automobile examples you cited are not issues of differing manufacturing standards, but are issues of differing design standards. And we can be grateful differing desing standards exist - suppose the only design standard was that of Bentley or Rolls - all cars would be much more expensive and unobtainable by many. A better example of the effect of manufacturing standards is that of the the comparison of engine reliabilty among the same type of GM auto engines - those made in US/Canada vs. those made in Mexico. Or the Firestone tires that failed on the Ford SUVs same Firestond design standards, but outsourced to a South American(?) plant that failed to construct them properly. To a certain extent, we can be thankful that differing manufacturing standards exist as well. I don't want to pay for the fit & finish standards of a Benz for an F-150 pickup that I would regularly take 4-wheeling. Since the days of the US-Canadian vs. Mexican GM motors, international "standards" (ISO 9000, ISO 9001, ISO 9002 ISO etc.) have been introduced (and received with varying degres of enthusiasm), and thus there is perhaps the impression that manufacturing standards are uniform everywhere, but I agree with your larger point that, utlimately, standards vary widely. md0110 __________________ High definition is nice, but read a book now and then, willya???

01-27-2006, 04:20 PM	#14
keis How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 18	Digital cable quality can make a difference. Your premise that digital is either there or not is only partially true. The audio world has proven that. CDs were terrible to start with even though Nyquest theory proved there was no concern. What was missing was a better understanding of jitter. In video the digital signal clock speed, impedence mismatches etc can also degrade a digital signal even though the speed of the HDMI is all the same. Internal reflections (impedence variation in the cable length itself) can cause reflections and these can develope time code ghosts in the HDMI receiver circuitry. So its not all just hype and black magic. __________________ Ken Eis, Colorado Motorola HD DVR, Toshiba stuff

01-26-2006, 01:58 PM	#5
sl7vk Panasonic Plasma Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 603	Crazy. Do you think the glass is made their, or is the Korean glass assembled to the Belgium electronics in Belgium?

01-26-2006, 03:05 PM	#7
lafay1 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 35	Every Philips LCD set I've seen, the picture has been outstanding. Costco, Circuit City, Fry's etc. Parts are from everywhere. Nothing is 100% home grown anymore

01-27-2006, 08:52 AM	#11
sl7vk Panasonic Plasma Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 603	I agree that manufacturing standards are very similar globally except for China..... Having been to Shenzeng, and a couple of factories, I can tell you that the conditions are abhorent and that I would never buy sensitive electronics from these places. They will catch up, but at the moment, they aren't up to snuff IMHO.