The black level measurements of 2010 Panasonic plasmas compared to the competition

dsskid · 10-13-2010, 10:50 AM

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10-13-2010, 05:53 PM

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dsskid · 10-13-2010, 06:03 PM

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10-13-2010, 06:08 PM

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dsskid · 10-13-2010, 06:48 PM

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10-14-2010, 02:21 AM

Well, here I am posting and retracting previous post that I made while the darker side of my personality was again in control of what I allow my fingers to voice as my opinion, be it right or wrong....I do not wish to be viewed as a vile and contemptible part of this forum but as I have on occasion in the past allowed my mouth to overplay my sense of right and fair play....

I do not make this post or retract my previous post through any pressure placed upon me by the Administrators or Moderators of this fine forum but rather do so out a need to make things right......that little voice inside of your soul that nags at you when yo may have done someone an injustice.......hence being up at this late hour in an attempt to put things right.....
It should in no way really be of great concern to myself or any other poster here what preference or non-preference for display make or model any member here has or that they may or may not sway someones opinion by their remarks. The perspective owner should examine all of the facts available to them and make a good judgement based upon the many factors that are a part of their personal environment....Dsskid has been a helpful and informative member of this forum and if he chooses not to sip from the Panasonic Kool-aid so to speak he is well within his right not to do so and he is right in attempting to make others aware of potential shortcomings certain models have.....then the consumer can make their own judgement as to what is or is not important to them and their environment.....

I wish I could say that I will not allow the "darker" side of my personality to outweigh my good judgement in the future but alas I cannot....I am what I am and I will most likely be attempting to make amends for my poor judgement again in the future I do not ask for forgiveness, just that I be seen as the fair and good hearted person that I truly am....

sincerely,
Pappylap

PFC5 · 10-14-2010, 02:54 AM

Great post Pappy. It takes a big man to openly admit when they realize they might have went too far.

kharaa · 10-14-2010, 03:40 AM

great post pappy, that was big of you to admit, I hope you and dsskid can atleast be amiable, even though you guys clearly don't see eye to eye. I know we all have our own opinions, and preferences; but we all should really remember that this is just a hobby, and it isn't worth all the hostility towards eachother!

You both have been here along time, and both have repeatedly helped people here. you're both an asset to the forums, even if you disagree.

dsskid · 10-14-2010, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappylap

Well, here I am posting and retracting previous post that I made while the darker side of my personality was again in control of what I allow my fingers to voice as my opinion, be it right or wrong....I do not wish to be viewed as a vile and contemptible part of this forum but as I have on occasion in the past allowed my mouth to overplay my sense of right and fair play....

I do not make this post or retract my previous post through any pressure placed upon me by the Administrators or Moderators of this fine forum but rather do so out a need to make things right......that little voice inside of your soul that nags at you when yo may have done someone an injustice.......hence being up at this late hour in an attempt to put things right.....
It should in no way really be of great concern to myself or any other poster here what preference or non-preference for display make or model any member here has or that they may or may not sway someones opinion by their remarks. The perspective owner should examine all of the facts available to them and make a good judgement based upon the many factors that are a part of their personal environment....Dsskid has been a helpful and informative member of this forum and if he chooses not to sip from the Panasonic Kool-aid so to speak he is well within his right not to do so and he is right in attempting to make others aware of potential shortcomings certain models have.....then the consumer can make their own judgement as to what is or is not important to them and their environment.....

I wish I could say that I will not allow the "darker" side of my personality to outweigh my good judgement in the future but alas I cannot....I am what I am and I will most likely be attempting to make amends for my poor judgement again in the future I do not ask for forgiveness, just that I be seen as the fair and good hearted person that I truly am....

sincerely,
Pappylap

Thank you for your post. Lets move on from this point forward,
John.

DTV TiVo Dealer · 10-14-2010, 07:26 AM

I had the pleasure of meeting Jeff Meyer yesterday. Jeff stopped in on his NE calibrating tour and we reviewed our shoot-out wall and the differences between the panels. We focused on Samsung's PN58C8000 and Panasonic's TC-P58VT25.

Jeff measured the on/off contrast ratio and MLL and he says Panasonic's contrast ratio and black level is two times greater than Samsung's. This goes along with everyone's observations that the Panasonic delivers a richer image and far better black level.

-Robert

dsskid · 10-14-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

I had the pleasure of meeting Jeff Meyer yesterday. Jeff stopped in on his NE calibrating tour and we reviewed our shoot-out wall and the differences between the panels. We focused on Samsung's PN58C8000 and Panasonic's TC-P58VT25.

Jeff measured the on/off contrast ratio and MLL and he says Panasonic's contrast ratio and black level is two times greater than Samsung's. This goes along with everyone's observations that the Panasonic delivers a richer image and far better black level.

-Robert

Thanks Robert, these are the same figures that I discussed with DeWayne during the shootout's first night - the Panasonic had .004 and the Samsung .007-.008.

How many hrs do you currently have on the Panasonic and Samsung? According to the reports, the Panasonic VT25 should experience the first rise around 1500 hrs, at which time the Panasonic should be .007 -.008.

After the second rise? We'll have to what for that.

cccsdad · 10-14-2010, 08:35 AM

so you actually think that CNET saying they're not adjusting their ratings helps your arugment?

Also, your whole argument is based off of your speculation that the 2010 models will show the same level of increase as the 2009's. As I've said before "time will tell" and if the levels continue to increase above and beyond what we're led to believe by CNET and Panasonic, well I guess you can come in here and say "see I told you so". As far as right here, right now, all you have to go on is your speculation on what you THINK will happen.

Please don't repeat your tired, wornout line "they've already increased 2x" WE ALL KNOW THAT, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN FROM THIS POINT FORWARD!!

Why on Earth can't you understand that simple concept?

cccsdad · 10-14-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsskid

After the second rise? We'll have to what for that.

are you kidding me, that's the point I've been trying to make to you for the past 3 days.

dsskid · 10-14-2010, 08:46 AM

So as it stands now, after the FIRST rise, the black levels of the Panasonic and the Samsung will be equal.
Are you with me so far?

Panasonic stated another rise is coming, this is not speculation. Do you agree with this?

So common sense will tell you that after the SECOND rise, the Panasonic black level will be higher than the Samsung?

How much higher? We'll have to see, but it will be higher.

My purpose is not to come here and say "I told you so". It's to point out a flaw that isn't covered by any warranty, and depending on the importance to the buyer, may give them something to consider, rather than being surprised after the fact.

Period.

Archie Bunker · 10-14-2010, 08:49 AM

Not everybody seen big rises in the 09's, I didn't, I compared the two yesterday.
Only guy reported a rise with the S after 1000. None after 2000.
http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1218372

Why some models did at 200 you may never know. Could it have been improper break in disks?

It seems like if you got through 2000 hours you made it with little rises, glad I fell in that group.

10-13-2010, 10:50 AM	#151
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	Delete __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty Last edited by dsskid; 10-14-2010 at 04:35 AM.

10-13-2010, 05:53 PM	#152
pappylap Guest Posts: n/a	deleted by the poster Last edited by pappylap; 10-14-2010 at 01:59 AM.

10-13-2010, 06:03 PM	#153
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	Delete __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty Last edited by dsskid; 10-14-2010 at 04:38 AM.

10-13-2010, 06:08 PM	#154
pappylap Guest Posts: n/a	deleted by the poster Last edited by pappylap; 10-14-2010 at 01:59 AM.

10-13-2010, 06:48 PM	#155
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	Delete __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty Last edited by dsskid; 10-14-2010 at 04:30 AM.

10-14-2010, 02:21 AM	#156
pappylap Guest Posts: n/a	Well, here I am posting and retracting previous post that I made while the darker side of my personality was again in control of what I allow my fingers to voice as my opinion, be it right or wrong....I do not wish to be viewed as a vile and contemptible part of this forum but as I have on occasion in the past allowed my mouth to overplay my sense of right and fair play.... I do not make this post or retract my previous post through any pressure placed upon me by the Administrators or Moderators of this fine forum but rather do so out a need to make things right......that little voice inside of your soul that nags at you when yo may have done someone an injustice.......hence being up at this late hour in an attempt to put things right..... It should in no way really be of great concern to myself or any other poster here what preference or non-preference for display make or model any member here has or that they may or may not sway someones opinion by their remarks. The perspective owner should examine all of the facts available to them and make a good judgement based upon the many factors that are a part of their personal environment....Dsskid has been a helpful and informative member of this forum and if he chooses not to sip from the Panasonic Kool-aid so to speak he is well within his right not to do so and he is right in attempting to make others aware of potential shortcomings certain models have.....then the consumer can make their own judgement as to what is or is not important to them and their environment..... I wish I could say that I will not allow the "darker" side of my personality to outweigh my good judgement in the future but alas I cannot....I am what I am and I will most likely be attempting to make amends for my poor judgement again in the future I do not ask for forgiveness, just that I be seen as the fair and good hearted person that I truly am.... sincerely, Pappylap

10-14-2010, 02:54 AM	#157
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	Great post Pappy. It takes a big man to openly admit when they realize they might have went too far. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

10-14-2010, 07:26 AM	#160
DTV TiVo Dealer ValueElectronics.com Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Scarsdale, NY Posts: 607	I had the pleasure of meeting Jeff Meyer yesterday. Jeff stopped in on his NE calibrating tour and we reviewed our shoot-out wall and the differences between the panels. We focused on Samsung's PN58C8000 and Panasonic's TC-P58VT25. Jeff measured the on/off contrast ratio and MLL and he says Panasonic's contrast ratio and black level is two times greater than Samsung's. This goes along with everyone's observations that the Panasonic delivers a richer image and far better black level. -Robert __________________ VE Advanced a/v technology dealer

10-14-2010, 08:35 AM	#162
cccsdad High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 111	so you actually think that CNET saying they're not adjusting their ratings helps your arugment? Also, your whole argument is based off of your speculation that the 2010 models will show the same level of increase as the 2009's. As I've said before "time will tell" and if the levels continue to increase above and beyond what we're led to believe by CNET and Panasonic, well I guess you can come in here and say "see I told you so". As far as right here, right now, all you have to go on is your speculation on what you THINK will happen. Please don't repeat your tired, wornout line "they've already increased 2x" WE ALL KNOW THAT, THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN FROM THIS POINT FORWARD!! Why on Earth can't you understand that simple concept?

10-14-2010, 08:46 AM	#164
dsskid ISF Calibrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 49 Posts: 4,946	So as it stands now, after the FIRST rise, the black levels of the Panasonic and the Samsung will be equal. Are you with me so far? Panasonic stated another rise is coming, this is not speculation. Do you agree with this? So common sense will tell you that after the SECOND rise, the Panasonic black level will be higher than the Samsung? How much higher? We'll have to see, but it will be higher. My purpose is not to come here and say "I told you so". It's to point out a flaw that isn't covered by any warranty, and depending on the importance to the buyer, may give them something to consider, rather than being surprised after the fact. Period. __________________ Displays are like 100% cotton t-shirts. Always buy a size larger than you think you'll need, because they tend to shrink over time. Professional reviews of displays are an excellent tool, but the final decision should come from using your own eyes. Living Room - Panasonic TH58PZ700U, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Denon AVR-1911 Man-Cave - Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD, Pioneer Kuro BDP-320, Denon AVR-591BA, PS3 RIP L2W, PFC5 & Kosty Last edited by dsskid; 10-14-2010 at 08:50 AM.

10-14-2010, 08:49 AM	#165
Archie Bunker Enough Meathead!!!! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 301	Not everybody seen big rises in the 09's, I didn't, I compared the two yesterday. Only guy reported a rise with the S after 1000. None after 2000. http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1218372 Why some models did at 200 you may never know. Could it have been improper break in disks? It seems like if you got through 2000 hours you made it with little rises, glad I fell in that group. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S2 (1080p full moving resolution) Plasma 0.09 cd/m2 Sony Blu Ray BDP-S350 Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD Bedroom Panasonic TC-P42S1 (1080p full moving resolution) Plasma 0.05 cd/m2 Sony Blu ray BDP-S300 Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD Both have a post 4/09 build date, no rapid black rise. "It's the moving resolution, stupid" http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Advanc.....-a0157137966