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Plasma vs LCD, Soap opera effect

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Old 06-21-2010, 10:41 AM   #1
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Default Plasma vs LCD, Soap opera effect

Hi all,

I just bought a new 120hz LCD - LG 47LD520. I should have come here first and read up some. Whoops. I had never heard about the soap opera effect before, but both my wife and I are experiencing it, bad. Everything simply looks like it was shot on a handheld camera.

Previous to this TV, we had a 42" 480p Samsung plasma that died. We never experienced any weirdness on that TV.

I'm still within the return period timeframe and am considering taking it back. We're going to try turning off the LG anti-blur tech (trumotion, I think it's called) and set the BD player and TV to 24hz mode, turn it to the Cinema picture setting and hope for the best. We'll try watching a couple movies that way and see if it helps.

If I do end up taking it back, here's my question: First off, will modern 600hz plasma tvs have this effect? Secondly, 46" Plasmas are hard to find, the only one in our price range is only 720p... would I notice this difference much at a distance of 8 feet? We *only* watch movies (DVD only, just got the BD player and may return it at the same time) and I play some xbox360.. we don't watch broadcast TV at all.

I could pay a few extra bucks (approximately $100 ... after returning the BD player, I think it would be a wash) to get a 50" 1080p plasma, even though I think it's too big to be watching from ~8 feet. Your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance for all your opinions. I could give more info if needed.

All devices are connected by HDMI, btw.

Oliver
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:51 AM   #2
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I have a 50" 1080p from 8' away and wish I went with a bigger screen now, and will for my next display. So no, 50" is not too big and you will most likely be glad you went with a 50" shortly after you get it. They seem to shrink as we adjust to these larger screens.

Yes try turning off the Trumotion and see if that helps.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:03 AM   #3
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Plasma TV's don't suffer from soap opera effect. It is solely a product of artificial motion technology used in LCD TV's to attempt to make up for their shortcomings. Turning off all motion enhancements on your TV should help.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:10 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Loves2Watch View Post
Plasma TV's don't suffer from soap opera effect. It is solely a product of artificial motion technology used in LCD TV's to attempt to make up for their shortcomings. Turning off all motion enhancements on your TV should help.
This is what I learned from reading the forums, but there's an awful lot of misinformation out there. Apparently turning the anti-blur all the way up and the anti-judder all the way down helps, according to some.

I'll play with these things tonight, but I don't want to spend a grand on a TV I'm not happy with - I'd just as soon return it for a plasma that doesn't have these issues. Thanks for your response.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:32 PM   #5
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Thumbs up New TV

Right now, you can get a 50" Panasonic TC-P50S2 plasma from www.vanns.com for $1025 with no tax and free shipping. This is a 1080p plasma and will handily beat any TV in this price range. I purchased the Panny in my den from Vanns, and can attest to their pricing and customer service - both are top notch. One thing is for sure - if you purchase the S2, you'll never regret it !
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #6
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Definetely get 1080P if $1000 is your budget. There's no reason not to.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:06 PM   #7
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Like the original poster, I had never heard of "soap opera effect", but I am experiencing it now. sheesh.

Just got a samsung 55in LED, and everyone in the family, especially wife, is complaining about the look of the picture, which as many say resembles what you see from a camcorder or watching a video tape.
It just looks weird and uncomfortable. Very disappointing.

Previously I had a Toshiba 46in DLP. Well, ha, between having to replace expensive blown lamps, the picture on that (720) display was textured and awesome.

I figured that 7 years later, a NEW tech LCD LED would be even better. I had heard and read of motion blur so I leaned out to get a TV with 240Hz that I was told corrected the problem.

Now I am turning off a factory default setting ("motion plus 240Hz") because of the completely unexpected soap opera phenomenon. I suppose now I will enjoy motion blur??

If I had known about this I am sure I would have gone for plasma, whose burn-in and fade problems have been mostly fixed (?), or even with a DLP using LED that would have prevented lamp failure.

I have had this TV for about 10 days (Amazon/Buy.com) so I wonder if I can return it? It was a $2000 tv that I thought we would be thrilled with...

How much success have people had with turning OFF the motion setting? Do they get motion blur? Do they turn the motion adjustment back on for football games? Seems like it is a really flawed technology.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by arrowspace90 View Post
Like the original poster, I had never heard of "soap opera effect", but I am experiencing it now. sheesh.

Just got a samsung 55in LED, and everyone in the family, especially wife, is complaining about the look of the picture, which as many say resembles what you see from a camcorder or watching a video tape.
It just looks weird and uncomfortable. Very disappointing.

Previously I had a Toshiba 46in DLP. Well, ha, between having to replace expensive blown lamps, the picture on that (720) display was textured and awesome.

I figured that 7 years later, a NEW tech LCD LED would be even better. I had heard and read of motion blur so I leaned out to get a TV with 240Hz that I was told corrected the problem.

Now I am turning off a factory default setting ("motion plus 240Hz") because of the completely unexpected soap opera phenomenon. I suppose now I will enjoy motion blur??

If I had known about this I am sure I would have gone for plasma, whose burn-in and fade problems have been mostly fixed (?), or even with a DLP using LED that would have prevented lamp failure.

I have had this TV for about 10 days (Amazon/Buy.com) so I wonder if I can return it? It was a $2000 tv that I thought we would be thrilled with...

How much success have people had with turning OFF the motion setting? Do they get motion blur? Do they turn the motion adjustment back on for football games? Seems like it is a really flawed technology.
If you can return it without being socked in the schlobberbook,,me choice would be to return it. If you and your family enjoy the best pic possible for the dollar spent - plasma be the only route. This would be me first choice -
https://clevelandplasma.com/store/pl...onic_tc_p54g25

It may seem that we be shills for Cleveland Plasma,,,and we probably are. But they have earned a solid reputation (not to mention all the valuable input they add to our forum).
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:26 PM   #9
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I agree about the plasma recommendation and Cleveland Plasma as well. It is a rare retail that has had no complaints, but I have not heard one complaint about them.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:44 PM   #10
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Go with a Plasma if you can return it. I believe my brother got his tv from Cleveland Plasma I will check.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:00 AM   #11
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Thumbs down Samsung UN55C5000 + Soap Opera Effect = gross

I just bought a Samsung UN55C8000 240Hz LED TV and I personally cannot STAND the Soap Opera Effect. It's absolutely disgusting.

I've tried turning off Auto Motion Plus but the problem persists (although at a slightly reduced level). The best fix so far has been to set Auto Motion Plus to "Clear," but even that isn't a solution. It seems that no matter what setting I put this stupid TV on this stupid Soap Opera Effect continues at some level.

You're telling me if I take this piece-of-crap TV back to the store and get a plasma TV then I won't ever have to deal with the Soap Opera Effect again?

Another question: considering that some people actually like this Soap Opera Effect, wouldn't be considered a FLAW by those people that plasmas don't display it?
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by phrozted View Post
I just bought a Samsung UN55C8000 240Hz LED TV and I personally cannot STAND the Soap Opera Effect. It's absolutely disgusting.

I've tried turning off Auto Motion Plus but the problem persists (although at a slightly reduced level). The best fix so far has been to set Auto Motion Plus to "Clear," but even that isn't a solution. It seems that no matter what setting I put this stupid TV on this stupid Soap Opera Effect continues at some level.

You're telling me if I take this piece-of-crap TV back to the store and get a plasma TV then I won't ever have to deal with the Soap Opera Effect again?

Another question: considering that some people actually like this Soap Opera Effect, wouldn't be considered a FLAW by those people that plasmas don't display it?

See my reply in the other duplicate post you did about this.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:56 AM   #13
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Hmmm. So i have the Samsung C7000 Plasma 3D tv and I am definitely having this problem or something similar. I get this halo/blurring sort of effect around people as they move onscreen. it's quite annoying. it does not always happen though. Sort of depends on the image and source as well. I don't see it nearly as bad from the BluRay source, but from my DirectV HDDVR I see it a lot. Kind of disappointing.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:09 AM   #14
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Default PLASMA vs LED/LCD ...depends on your purpose for the TV...

srushing....this is the lesser known but equally dreaded PHOSPHOR TRAILING effect of plasmas.......I JUST recently bought a Samsung 240hz LED LCD, and took it back due to the soap opera effect + high cost $1699 + hearing that plasma was better for your money...."less motion blur, better color/contrast etc"...

Let me first say that i am highly UNIMPRESSED with this panasonic TC-P50G20 Plasma...my main concern is gaming, and I am a very discerning viewer when it comes to any sort of artifacting/phosphor trailing. This TV exhibits HUGE amounts of phosphor trailing...and this looks 100x worse than the 240hz LED LCD did. The samsung was SO smooth in Modern warefare 2 PS3....was smoother than Country Crock whipped butter....

Not only that, but the black levels on the Panny plasma sucked tar compared to the LED samsung...the samsung was 6 million: 1 contrast, this plasma is supposed to be 5 million:1. I noticed much higher color fidelity/contrast/black levels in GAMING on the LED. Blacks on video look nice on the plasma, has a cool inky look, but for me, I need a TV to shine in gaming. I do not believe plasma is up to the task at all, this coming from a person who has used the latest LED LCD technology from samsung, and also a supposedly decent current plasma model...

CNET raved about this plasma's black level performance....

The only way i can get the black level of this panasonic to come close to the samsung is to put it in VIVID color mode. Even then honestly the LED still wins by a visible margin....so I have to decide what TV I want....might just hold out until LED price drops some more. Too expensive for the size
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:01 PM   #15
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srushing....this is the lesser known but equally dreaded PHOSPHOR TRAILING effect of plasmas.......I JUST recently bought a Samsung 240hz LED LCD, and took it back due to the soap opera effect + high cost $1699 + hearing that plasma was better for your money...."less motion blur, better color/contrast etc"...

Let me first say that i am highly UNIMPRESSED with this panasonic TC-P50G20 Plasma...my main concern is gaming, and I am a very discerning viewer when it comes to any sort of artifacting/phosphor trailing. This TV exhibits HUGE amounts of phosphor trailing...and this looks 100x worse than the 240hz LED LCD did. The samsung was SO smooth in Modern warefare 2 PS3....was smoother than Country Crock whipped butter....

Not only that, but the black levels on the Panny plasma sucked tar compared to the LED samsung...the samsung was 6 million: 1 contrast, this plasma is supposed to be 5 million:1. I noticed much higher color fidelity/contrast/black levels in GAMING on the LED. Blacks on video look nice on the plasma, has a cool inky look, but for me, I need a TV to shine in gaming. I do not believe plasma is up to the task at all, this coming from a person who has used the latest LED LCD technology from samsung, and also a supposedly decent current plasma model...

CNET raved about this plasma's black level performance....

The only way i can get the black level of this panasonic to come close to the samsung is to put it in VIVID color mode. Even then honestly the LED still wins by a visible margin....so I have to decide what TV I want....might just hold out until LED price drops some more. Too expensive for the size
Not trying to offend you but you clearly are not very knowledgeable on the technical aspects of HDTVs. I think you have listened to these inadequately trained salesmen too much, but so do most people when they try to get info on HDTVs. If you really believe those million or more to 1 contrast ratio numbers in TV specs then I have some land to sell you with pet alligators that come with it.

Next when you are talking about motion it doesn't matter how fast the make the LCDs pixel response time (how long it takes for a pixel to change states - i.e. from green to blue, black to white, etc) repeated the same image or interpolated images more per second when the LCD panel itself is at best limited to 2ms pixel response time and is the LCD (Least Common Denominator) that limits how fast screen response speed can be, since this is a physical limit of LCD mfg right now. To put it in perspective, a plasma pixel response time is 0.001ms which is 2,000x faster. What you get with LCD with fast motion in gaming is a smearing of the scene and THAT is the limitation of the 2ms pixel response time.

Yes in certain instances (I have to try to find it by doing something I wouldn't do) to even see phosphor trails and cannot even see it with trying now as the plasma aged. To see it in COD4 I had to find a high contrast scene and spin back and forth as fast as I could just to see it , and now even when I try I cannot now that my plasma has aged.

Now on to the contrast ratios. If a current display can even get an actual contrast ratio of 6,000:1 it has one of the best available. LCDs are spec'd out by mfg in ways that could never be used with actual content and the PQ would look horrible in normal home lighting if you tried and you would likely burn your eyes out as well. Many/most LCDs measure blacks with an all black signal which turns the backlighting off but we do not watch black screens right? We may watch with a mostly black screen but with ANY light in the picture the backlight has to come on and then the black levels rise much more. So they take the black reading when the light is turned off that you could NEVER achieve with actual content on the screen.

To measure the white levels they turn it up so high that you could never see any shades/shadows of white so you would be crushing white and missing a lot of data on the material you are watching and is normal house lighting it would cause eye fatigue and likely hurt your eyes.

Even by doing all these things I highly doubt they could even find a way to measure contrast even at 1 million to 1 never mind 6 mil to 1, but regardless it could not possibly achieve anything close with real content on the screen. We have a sticky that discusses why you can mostly ignore contrast ratio specs now.

For your issues with your G20 I suggest you get a calibration disc and I think that would help a lot with your PQ issues.

There is a lot to learn with these HDTVs and we all started out with little knowledge and were fed a lot of misinformation and myths so you are not alone with believing much of it. Stick around and read many of the posts here and you will become a more informed consumer and will recognize the BS salesmen say in error.

Welcome to the forum!
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