Guide with OTA channels on VIP722K

[Charles Branch]

After a couple of false starts, I now have the OTA channels working on my new VIP722K. Only problem is that the guide says only "Digital Service" for all the OTA channels. On my old DirecTV H20 and Sony Sat-HD200 the guide for OTA channels is totally integrated, and the pre-sales Dish reps told me the same would be true for the VIP722.

I have searched this issue a little, and I saw a previous post that says the guide will work only if you subscribe to local channels. But local channels are not available in my location. They were not available on DirecTV either, but the guide was fully integrated on those receivers.

I called Dish. The rep told me that this is primarily a technical issue. He said that the guide information for OTA is actually supposed to be received from the various local channels and not from Dish. He also said that the problem could be that in my 36832 ZIP the OTA signals may not be strong enough to receive that guide information from the various stations. He did say he would start a technical problem ticket to look into it.

Finally, he said that the reason Dish cannot currently provide locals (or the local guide to OTA channels) in 36832 ZIP is that the beam for locals is fairly narrow and that I am outside both the Montgomery and Columbus reception areas. He said that technically Dish could provide me with the national network feeds but not the Montgomery or Columbus feed. I had thought that this was all because restrictions of the Satellite Viewers Act, but he said it is a little more complicated than that. Since I am in the process of writing a letter to my representatives about needed changes in the law, I would really like to have a better understanding of all this before I start telling them what they need to do.

In general, is what the Dish rep told me correct, and did I describe the situation correctly? He came across as quite knowledgeable compared to the reps I am used to speaking with.

Feel free to educate me or point me a some URLs that would do so.
I'm beginning to think I should have made two separate posts, because I am really asking about two separate issues.

Thanks,

Charles

[garys]

Dish gets their guide info from Tribune Media Services, they do not use the info sent along with the ota signal. To get guide info, you need to subscribe to the local package. If your locals are not available on Dish, you may be out of luck. You can use any number of sites, such as TitanTV, TVGuide or Zap2It for info. You can set up manual timers if you want to record your ota.

[Charles Branch]

Originally Posted by garys

Dish gets their guide info from Tribune Media Services, they do not use the info sent along with the ota signal.

So is this a technical problem, or could Dish provide the guide of they wanted to? In the setup on my DirecTV receivers I entered first the ZIP for Montgomery, and then the ZIP for Columbus. The resulting integrated guide included all channels from both markets. Could Dish do the same thing if they wanted to, or is there some technical difference that prevents them from doing something similar?

[garys]

Originally Posted by Charles Branch

So is this a technical problem, or could Dish provide the guide of they wanted to? In the setup on my DirecTV receivers I entered first the ZIP for Montgomery, and then the ZIP for Columbus. The resulting integrated guide included all channels from both markets. Could Dish do the same thing if they wanted to, or is there some technical difference that prevents them from doing something similar?

They could supply them if they wanted to. They would rather use it to make money, Dish did supply ota guide info in the past but that was only on one model receiver and have since removed it from the software. It is not a technical issue.

[Charles Branch]

Originally Posted by garys

You can use any number of sites, such as TitanTV, TVGuide or Zap2It for info. You can set up manual timers if you want to record your ota.

I wonder if there is a way to incorporate some of this information into the Dish guide. If so, this might be an opportunity for some clever programmer to develop a niche market to provide a service for people in my situation. I guess it would be a matter of how accessible the Dish guide program is.

[garys]

Originally Posted by Charles Branch

I wonder if there is a way to incorporate some of this information into the Dish guide. If so, this might be an opportunity for some clever programmer to develop a niche market to provide a service for people in my situation. I guess it would be a matter of how accessible the Dish guide program is.

Might be considered "Hacking" the receiver by Dish. If it is and Dish discovers this with the receiver being leased, you will have to pay full price for it and maybe have your account shut off.

[Charles Branch]

Originally Posted by garys

Might be considered "Hacking" the receiver by Dish. If it is and Dish discovers this with the receiver being leased, you will have to pay full price for it and maybe have your account shut off.

I guess they ought to either provide services like I propose, or cooperate with other people to provide niche services that might not be worth their effort. That's the sort of approach that has made Google such a success.

[lsilvest]

In a way Dish was smart not to get involved in guides while the dtv transition was going on. Major headaches with any guide with all of the frequency shifting. I would think that the question of support would be a big factor in getting involved with guides on the ATSC tuner.

While I can understand why they may not provide guides, I don't understand why they can't make the manual timers easier to set up. They're actually worse than the old vcr menus - very poorly designed. One simple change would be the ability to key in times instead of having to scroll. Or at least, since the prime time shows would most likely be the most recorded, why not set the time at 7 or 8 instead of 12? Another shortcoming is in not being able to name the show before it is recorded. In all, it's a very cumbersome method.

[jim5506]

Originally Posted by Charles Branch

I called Dish. The rep told me that this is primarily a technical issue. He said that the guide information for OTA is actually supposed to be received from the various local channels and not from Dish. He also said that the problem could be that in my 36832 ZIP the OTA signals may not be strong enough to receive that guide information from the various stations. He did say he would start a technical problem ticket to look into it.

The guide for channels that Dish provides comes from Tribune Media Services - Dish receivers do not use PSIP broadcast data by stations. The Dish rep was blowing smoke all the way

Originally Posted by Charles Branch

Finally, he said that the reason Dish cannot currently provide locals (or the local guide to OTA channels) in 36832 ZIP is that the beam for locals is fairly narrow and that I am outside both the Montgomery and Columbus reception areas. He said that technically Dish could provide me with the national network feeds but not the Montgomery or Columbus feed. I had thought that this was all because restrictions of the Satellite Viewers Act, but he said it is a little more complicated than that. Since I am in the process of writing a letter to my representatives about needed changes in the law, I would really like to have a better understanding of all this before I start telling them what they need to do.

Wrong again, the spot beams are on the order of 3-500 mile ellipses and the signal does not sharply end at the edge, it gradually falls away. If the were allowed to by law they could probably provide you with those locals. Dish can legally provide no one with local channels outside their DMA due to a lawsuit where Dish got the death penalty for cheating on distant locals.

Unfortunately you are in the Columbus GA DMa and Dish does not carry Columbus GA stations.

[Charles Branch]

Originally Posted by jim5506

Wrong again, the spot beams are on the order of 3-500 mile ellipses and the signal does not sharply end at the edge, it gradually falls away. If the were allowed to by law they could probably provide you with those locals.

Looks like you are correct. I mentioned earlier that the PBS WEB site said I am eligible for PBS NATIONAL feed, because locals are not available in my area. http://www.pbs.org/aboutpbs/aboutpbs_prog_dish2.html.
I informed DISH, and they turned on the Alabama PTV feed--NOT the NATIONAL PBS feed. Lo and Behold, when they did that, all of a sudden the guides started displaying for the Montgomery channels, but not for the Columbus channels. I think this pretty well indicates that what they did was turn on locals for the Montgomery area, but enabled only the PBS channel. And that is what turned on the guide. So it looks like everyone who said this was not a technical problem was correct.

Thanks, everyone. I'm a relatively happy camper now.

Is this worth posting to new thread? I wonder if other people who can't get the guide for OTA would be interested in knowing that they might be able to get the guide just by exercising their right to get PBS locals even if other locals are not available to them.