Source for DTV HD Movies? (ShowtimeHD, HBOHD, HDNet Movies)

[hfk]

Hi,

Do HDNet Movies, HBO HD, and Showtime HD use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray versions of films as a source for their movies? I ask because, despite the fact that I have a high-end DVD player, tweaked for performance, using component outputs (component is the best the DVD player will do), the quality of at least some of the movies shown on those channels seem to outshine their DVD equivalents. Furthermore, in general terms, some of the movies I've seen on those channels just seem to be of superior quality, a quality I'm not used to seeing on DVDs. For example, El Dorado, which was aired last night, was amazingly crisp: I can't recall a DVD version of an old movie like that (even a restored version) ever looking that good, at least with respect to sharpness and clarity. I've read that HD has the potential to be three times the quality of DVDs: is that the difference I'm seeing? Or perhaps it's my imagination?

Thanks

[davecramer74]

Unless you have an HD DVD or Blue RAY dvd player, the ones on tv will be alot better. Your highend dvd player is no longer high end.

[buzd]

A progressive scan DVD player will only play up to 480p. An upconverting DVD player will play higher, but you're still only starting with a 480 source (the DVD).

HD or BluRay will play in 1080i (or p with the right player) which is equivalent to the HD broadcasts you are seeing.

[hfk]

Guys,

Thanks for the help. I'm glad to hear that at least some of the DTV HD Channels are doing the right thing and broadcasting movies with an HD source, instead of mere DVD quality. If only TNTHD would get with the program...

Man I really was floored by El Dorado: the picture quality was amazing. And I only saw the last five minutes...

[vegasjunkie]

but i don't htink the question has been answered yet? someone out there has to know definitively the source of their broadcasts.

[davecramer74]

but i don't htink the question has been answered yet? someone out there has to know definitively the source of their broadcasts.

Well, i can say definitively they dont use DVD's to broadcast their movies. Id assume they get it from the same source the Dvd manufacturars do to put the media on a hd / blueray dvd. From the copyright holders themselves or whoever has the rights to distribute the media. .

[borromini]

I suspect that these HD networks use high-end equipment that can take film source (masters) as input and provide an HD output signal that then gets processed into their MPEG2 broadcast signal carrying the resolution they specify (720p/1080i,etc.) during the conversion process. If they have HD master content then the process leading to broadcasting the HD signal becomes simpler.

[Rhycar]

Originally Posted by hfk

Hi,

Do HDNet Movies, HBO HD, and Showtime HD use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray versions of films as a source for their movies? I ask because, despite the fact that I have a high-end DVD player, tweaked for performance, using component outputs (component is the best the DVD player will do), the quality of at least some of the movies shown on those channels seem to outshine their DVD equivalents. Furthermore, in general terms, some of the movies I've seen on those channels just seem to be of superior quality, a quality I'm not used to seeing on DVDs. For example, El Dorado, which was aired last night, was amazingly crisp: I can't recall a DVD version of an old movie like that (even a restored version) ever looking that good, at least with respect to sharpness and clarity. I've read that HD has the potential to be three times the quality of DVDs: is that the difference I'm seeing? Or perhaps it's my imagination?

Thanks

You should know that some DVD players now use HDMI connections so they can up-convert to 720 or 1080. Mine works really well, it really improves the quality of the DVD picture. Of course, it's still not as good as a Blu-Ray or HD DVD because of the source. Still, if you're watching DVDs and waiting for the format war to end, getting a DVD player with HDMI isn't a terrible option.

[hfk]

I just presumed that they used HD-DVD or Blu-Ray as a source. I've read that the process of creating an HD signal from the original media is not a simple one. I would imagine that the difficulty is greatly increased if the original media is celluloid, which I presume is the case with movies like El Dorado. Lets presume for the sake of argument that El Dorado has, at some point, been digitally transferred for remastering and cleanup for release on DVD. What good would any of that be for use on an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? Wouldn't all of that have to be done again? Or does the remastering/cleaning take place on some sort of high-resolution digital transfer of the original media? If so, then it might still be able to act as a source for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. How does remastering/cleanup of an old movie work? I presume that it's done on a digital transfer rather than the celluloid? Gets complicated doesn't it?

[Beck38]

Originally Posted by hfk

Do HDNet Movies, HBO HD, and Showtime HD use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray versions of films as a source for their movies?

NO. All of the services you list have to do their own HD 'mastering' from the prints supplied by the studio's; most of them have put out lengthy press releases to that effect (HBO andf HD-NET I remember in particular), listing the problems and costs associated with the process.

The number of films currently available in either HD/DVD format is extremely slim at present; many of the HD movies shown on HD-Net/Movies are specifically listed as 'not available on EITHER HD format or standard-definition DVD'.

Thank Mr. Cuban, not 'hollywood' studios.

[Rick-F]

I would guess that nearly every recorded thing you see on HDTV is recorded on TAPE (DV) -- digital recording tape -- or a solid state memory format card . . .

Adam Wilt's DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO Formats-FAQ-technical (http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html) and Internet Request for Comment (RFC) 3189, RTP Payload Format for DV (IEC 61834) Video, are the sources for much of the following:

There are two kinds of DV, one for consumer use and the other for professional. In 1992, AVC-Matsushita (now Panasonic) disseminated a Blue Book pertaining to the format. In 1995, SONY introduced the DV camcorder. In 1998, the original "DV" specification (based on the Blue Book), oriented toward consumer-use digital VCRs, was published as IEC 61834; part 2 specifies the video coding as well as many other elements. The specifications for professional DV were published as SMPTE 306M (1998) and 314M (1999); these two encoding formats are based on consumer DV and used in SMPTE D-7 and D-9 video systems. By and large, the preceding developments were framed in terms of videocassette media. The RTP payload format specified in RFC 3189 (2002) supports IEC 61834 consumer DV and professional SMPTE 306M and 314M (DV-Based) formats. For several years, many DV devices have provided interfaces such as IEEE 1394 (Firewire) in order to facilitate the movement of video streams into computer files. Increasing interest in media-less handing of the bitstream has led to developments like Panasonic's P2 solid state memory format cards, featured at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) trade show in 2005.

[hfk]

Originally Posted by Rhycar

You should know that some DVD players now use HDMI connections so they can up-convert to 720 or 1080. Mine works really well, it really improves the quality of the DVD picture. Of course, it's still not as good as a Blu-Ray or HD DVD because of the source. Still, if you're watching DVDs and waiting for the format war to end, getting a DVD player with HDMI isn't a terrible option.

Steve,

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that upconversion had a significant I impact on image quality. Trouble is, my CD player is a Sony 400CD carousel, the DVPCX777ES, and I really enjoy the convenience of the carousel. But maybe it's time to change...

I think it came out before HDMI got big. I was going to wait for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player prices to drop before upgrading , but since you've told me this I'm going to do some research about it and, possibly, sell the carousel and invest in a HDMI/upconverting capable DVD player. Or, maybe, I'll go ahead and take the plunge and get a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Player or even a combo player.

Thanks.

[borromini]

Originally Posted by hfk

...Lets presume for the sake of argument that El Dorado has, at some point, been digitally transferred for remastering and cleanup for release on DVD. What good would any of that be for use on an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? Wouldn't all of that have to be done again? Or does the remastering/cleaning take place on some sort of high-resolution digital transfer of the original media?...

These days, whenever a studio performs a restoration/digital transfer, the result is an HD 1080p master. From this new master, they can issue new editions of DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray formats.

[borromini]

Originally Posted by hfk

Steve,

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that upconversion had a significant I impact on image quality...

The results aren't the same for everyone. It depends on the player and the display.

[herkyjerk]

Be cautious about upscaling or upconvert DVD players. They DO NOT produce anywhere near a 1080i picture. Our Onkyo is HDMI and does a very nice job. Animation looks outstanding, and regular films look above average. But it is above average for 480p. The only true HD is BR or HDDVD. Upconvert is a nice picture, but not HD.